[ovirt-devel] REST API data aggregation

Fri Mar 24 22:16:53 UTC 2017

On Fri, Mar 24, 2017 at 8:57 PM, Martin Sivak <msivak at redhat.com> wrote:

> > Current Apache used has only experimental module for it.
> > Undertow is supposed to have a better support. I wonder when/if we can
> drop
> > Apache...
>
> The last info I have about that from mperina is that we need Apache
> for kerberos support atm.
>

I don't think we need it - I remember reading that Undertow does support it
as well.
The only issue is that there are probably 10 people in the world who know
how to configure Undertow for Kerberos, while many do for Apache. And since
we leave it for the user to configure...
Y.

>
> Martin
>
> On Fri, Mar 24, 2017 at 5:30 PM, Yaniv Kaul <ykaul at redhat.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Mar 24, 2017 at 6:43 PM, Martin Sivak <msivak at redhat.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> > 2: you can have more api gateways (e.g. more apis) tailored for every
> >> > frontend. I don't think we need this - the current API serves us
> pretty
> >> > well
> >> > in every FE Im involved in. The only thing which I miss is the data
> >> > aggregation.
> >>
> >> So it does not serve us well. Aggregation of data is one the usual
> >> points of using the gateway.
> >> Yes microservices are affected by this indeed, but so are we because
> >> implementing the aggregation directly in the current engine API layer
> >> is hard.
> >>
> >> > So I would go back to the original topic of this thread - do some
> small
> >> > change which has a chance to be merged to the project and helps us
> where
> >> > it
> >> > hurts.
> >
> >
> > I'm wondering if very specific additional REST API calls can suffice.
> > For example, a 'Get VM + disks + NIC' API call seems reasonable to add
> for
> > the various clients who commonly need it.
> >
> >>
> >> Can a simple HTTP/2 to HTTP/AJP gateway be the simplest solution? Our
> >> Apache might even have a module for it already.
> >
> >
> > Current Apache used has only experimental module for it.
> > Undertow is supposed to have a better support. I wonder when/if we can
> drop
> > Apache...
> > Y.
> >
> >>
> >> That way you can multiplex all the REST calls using a single tcp
> >> connection (and a single SSL negotiation).
> >>
> >> A custom SSO enabled service like that might be even better as it
> >> would be able to skip the authentication
> >> layers too and that would lower the engine load. But I am not sure it
> >> is possible with the current codebase.
> >>
> >> Martin
> >>
> >> On Fri, Mar 24, 2017 at 4:22 PM, Tomas Jelinek <tjelinek at redhat.com>
> >> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > On Fri, Mar 24, 2017 at 3:58 PM, Martin Sivak <msivak at redhat.com>
> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> > I feel like every REST API I've ever worked with has had the
> >> >> > aggregation
> >> >> > +
> >> >> > projection problem. It's like we're trying to use REST as a
> >> >> > replacement
> >> >> > for
> >> >> > SQL -- but the logic that executes the "SQL" lives in a browser
> now,
> >> >> > and
> >> >> > it
> >> >> > used to live on a server close to the DB. And REST isn't expressive
> >> >> > for
> >> >> > selecting data like SQL is.
> >> >>
> >> >> The current industry solution I know about is called API gateway..
> >> >> most of the big players have internal API with lots of low level
> stuff
> >> >> and then couple of external API gateways tailored to what the client
> >> >> needs.
> >> >>
> >> >> http://microservices.io/patterns/apigateway.html (check the backend
> >> >> for frontend section)
> >> >>
> >> >> This trend is also visible when you think about services that offer
> >> >> API gateway management and billing like
> >> >> https://aws.amazon.com/api-gateway/ or our very own
> >> >> https://www.3scale.net/
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > right, but the api gateway solves 2 problems:
> >> >
> >> > 1: if you have a microservice architecture it is hard for frontend to
> >> > talk
> >> > to 20 different moving services. So the gateway hides this complexity
> >> > behind
> >> > it. This is not the problem we have.
> >> >
> >> > 2: you can have more api gateways (e.g. more apis) tailored for every
> >> > frontend. I don't think we need this - the current API serves us
> pretty
> >> > well
> >> > in every FE Im involved in. The only thing which I miss is the data
> >> > aggregation.
> >> >
> >> > So I would go back to the original topic of this thread - do some
> small
> >> > change which has a chance to be merged to the project and helps us
> where
> >> > it
> >> > hurts.
> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> Martin
> >> >>
> >> >> On Fri, Mar 24, 2017 at 3:47 PM, Greg Sheremeta <gshereme at redhat.com
> >
> >> >> wrote:
> >> >> > I feel like every REST API I've ever worked with has had the
> >> >> > aggregation
> >> >> > +
> >> >> > projection problem. It's like we're trying to use REST as a
> >> >> > replacement
> >> >> > for
> >> >> > SQL -- but the logic that executes the "SQL" lives in a browser
> now,
> >> >> > and
> >> >> > it
> >> >> > used to live on a server close to the DB. And REST isn't expressive
> >> >> > for
> >> >> > selecting data like SQL is.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > There must be some industry solution to this "I want to do SQL over
> >> >> > REST"
> >> >> > problem.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > On Fri, Mar 24, 2017 at 5:54 AM, Martin Sivak <msivak at redhat.com>
> >> >> > wrote:
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> > for quite some time I have been more or less involved in
> >> >> >> > development
> >> >> >> > of
> >> >> >> > various UIs for oVirt based entirely on the oVirt's REST API
> >> >> >> > ranging
> >> >> >> > from
> >> >> >> > the quite mature moVirt [1] through some cockpit extensions to a
> >> >> >> > young
> >> >> >> > and
> >> >> >> > experimental user portal replacement [2].
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> oVirt optimizer has the same issue..
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> > 2: add some tiny service which would just accept a list of
> >> >> >> > queries,
> >> >> >> > execute
> >> >> >> > them locally (but using real HTTP requests) and return in one
> >> >> >> > bulk. A
> >> >> >> > naive
> >> >> >> > implementation just to give a sense of what I mean of this would
> >> >> >> > be a
> >> >> >> > shell
> >> >> >> > script getting list of strings like
> >> >> >> > "https://localhost/ovirt-engine/api/vms/123/sessions" iterate
> over
> >> >> >> > them
> >> >> >> > and
> >> >> >> > do a curl request for each, mangle the results into one string
> and
> >> >> >> > return
> >> >> >> > (credits for this idea to msivak). Easy to implement,
> possibility
> >> >> >> > to
> >> >> >> > add
> >> >> >> > also projections later to save some bandwidth. But the API would
> >> >> >> > anyway
> >> >> >> > be
> >> >> >> > hammered by bunch of queries, only the network roundtrip would
> be
> >> >> >> > saved.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> The biggest cost for (especially mobile) clients is the cost of
> >> >> >> establishing new SSL connection. SSL is also pretty expensive on
> the
> >> >> >> server side.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> So running the aggregation service on the ovirt-engine machine
> >> >> >> (behind
> >> >> >> Apache) means the client will do a single SSL request with list
> of N
> >> >> >> urls and the local "reverse-proxy" will perform single
> >> >> >> authentication
> >> >> >> and N plain HTTP requests (or even better - AJP). It won't remove
> >> >> >> any
> >> >> >> time from the actual command run time, but it will reduce protocol
> >> >> >> overhead.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> I think this is the simplest first step that requires almost no
> >> >> >> change
> >> >> >> to existing infrastructure.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> --
> >> >> >> Martin Sivak
> >> >> >> SLA / oVirt
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> On Fri, Mar 24, 2017 at 10:20 AM, Tomas Jelinek
> >> >> >> <tjelinek at redhat.com>
> >> >> >> wrote:
> >> >> >> > Hi All,
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > for quite some time I have been more or less involved in
> >> >> >> > development
> >> >> >> > of
> >> >> >> > various UIs for oVirt based entirely on the oVirt's REST API
> >> >> >> > ranging
> >> >> >> > from
> >> >> >> > the quite mature moVirt [1] through some cockpit extensions to a
> >> >> >> > young
> >> >> >> > and
> >> >> >> > experimental user portal replacement [2].
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > One issue we hit over and over again is the missing data
> >> >> >> > aggregation.
> >> >> >> > In
> >> >> >> > the
> >> >> >> > 3.x era we used to use in moVirt the detail=something
> >> >> >> > api to get the disks and nics of the VM, something like:
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > GET /ovirt-engine/api/vms
> >> >> >> > Accept: application/json; detail=disks
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > This allowed us to store this data in local database leading to
> >> >> >> > great
> >> >> >> > user
> >> >> >> > experience. Since this feature has been removed in 4.x API [3]
> >> >> >> > we needed to retire to a different solution. When the VM detail
> is
> >> >> >> > selected
> >> >> >> > by the user, start loading the disks and nics and hope the user
> >> >> >> > will not be fast enough to see the delay. The UX is slightly
> worse
> >> >> >> > bug
> >> >> >> > kinda
> >> >> >> > acceptable.
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > We hit this issue harder in the new user portal [2], because we
> >> >> >> > already
> >> >> >> > have
> >> >> >> > the VM cached and show the whole VM in one screen. So, if you
> pick
> >> >> >> > it,
> >> >> >> > you
> >> >> >> > will get it's details immediately.
> >> >> >> > But, since you don't have all the details, we need to do an
> >> >> >> > additional
> >> >> >> > call
> >> >> >> > (two actually) to load this data and they start to appear later.
> >> >> >> > So, something which would be very fast and smooth starts to feel
> >> >> >> > sluggish.
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > Recently, we hit this issue again which forced us to sacrifice
> the
> >> >> >> > UX
> >> >> >> > even
> >> >> >> > more - it is the "console in use" feature of user portal.
> >> >> >> > The use case is this:
> >> >> >> > - if the console is already taken by some user, there are
> >> >> >> > complications
> >> >> >> > if
> >> >> >> > other current user tryes to take it as well (will avoid details
> >> >> >> > about
> >> >> >> > settings and permissins involved, but long story short, the user
> >> >> >> > will
> >> >> >> > probably not be allowed to connect to it. The "probably" is the
> >> >> >> > key
> >> >> >> > here
> >> >> >> > since we can not do any intelligent decision in advance, we can
> >> >> >> > only
> >> >> >> > warn
> >> >> >> > the user that the console is taken).
> >> >> >> > - in the current GWT user portal, if the VM's console is taken,
> it
> >> >> >> > is
> >> >> >> > shown
> >> >> >> > on the VM's "box" that "console is taken". This was a highly
> >> >> >> > requested
> >> >> >> > feature
> >> >> >> > - to get this information using the current REST API, we need to
> >> >> >> > go
> >> >> >> > to
> >> >> >> > the
> >> >> >> > /vms/<vmid>/sessions subcollection. To get this for all VMs, it
> >> >> >> > would
> >> >> >> > be
> >> >> >> > doing N queries per poll which we can not afford
> >> >> >> > - so the current PR [4] will probably end up to only check it on
> >> >> >> > the
> >> >> >> > attempt
> >> >> >> > to connect to the console warning the user. Maybe it will be
> also
> >> >> >> > shown
> >> >> >> > in
> >> >> >> > Vm details. But the UX in case the user will look for a VM which
> >> >> >> > has
> >> >> >> > free
> >> >> >> > console will suffer significantly (e.g. try one by one until
> some
> >> >> >> > opens
> >> >> >> > or
> >> >> >> > look at details one by one to see if the warning appears (with a
> >> >> >> > delay))
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > I understand that embedding the details of the VM to the
> response
> >> >> >> > comes
> >> >> >> > with
> >> >> >> > a cost, namely:
> >> >> >> > - performance hit
> >> >> >> > - complexity of the API code
> >> >> >> > - the "cleanness" of REST suffers
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > But I think we should seriously consider to provide some option
> to
> >> >> >> > data
> >> >> >> > aggregation.
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > I know this has been discussed many times with no result, but I
> >> >> >> > think
> >> >> >> > it
> >> >> >> > is
> >> >> >> > time to bring this topic up again. I'll try to summarize the
> >> >> >> > (failed)
> >> >> >> > attempts tried so far:
> >> >> >> > - the detail=<something> parameter with ad-hoc embedding of
> data.
> >> >> >> > This
> >> >> >> > has
> >> >> >> > been there and removed in 4.0 [3]
> >> >> >> > - the DoctorREST project - e.g. a proxy above the current api.
> The
> >> >> >> > idea
> >> >> >> > was
> >> >> >> > to create a service which will be independent of the engine
> >> >> >> > itself,
> >> >> >> > will
> >> >> >> > locally poll the engine's REST, store all data in local
> (mongo)DB
> >> >> >> > and
> >> >> >> > provide a rich api with aggregations and projections and push
> >> >> >> > notifications.
> >> >> >> > This polling of everything to get the data to DoctorREST proved
> to
> >> >> >> > be
> >> >> >> > pretty
> >> >> >> > costy, so also a more invasive approach of pushing data from
> >> >> >> > engine
> >> >> >> > to
> >> >> >> > doctor has been discused [5]. None of this two approaches have
> >> >> >> > been
> >> >> >> > accepted
> >> >> >> > (too complicated, too invasive).
> >> >> >> > - writing some custom ad-hoc servlet serving only a purpose of
> one
> >> >> >> > frontend
> >> >> >> > - this is actually there for the dashboard, but it is not a
> >> >> >> > generic
> >> >> >> > solution
> >> >> >> > for the other frontends and we really should not develop custom
> >> >> >> > "APIs"
> >> >> >> > for
> >> >> >> > every frontend
> >> >> >> > - there were some other proposals discussed (some 3th party
> >> >> >> > solutions
> >> >> >> > etc)
> >> >> >> > but I think none of them made it even to a PoC
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > So, now I would try again and try small to get at least some
> >> >> >> > benefit.
> >> >> >> > I
> >> >> >> > see
> >> >> >> > 2 paths we could try:
> >> >> >> > 1: embed something which burns us immediatly, e.g. the /sessions
> >> >> >> > into
> >> >> >> > VMs. I
> >> >> >> > really liked the ;detail=sessions approach, could we move it
> back?
> >> >> >> > 2: add some tiny service which would just accept a list of
> >> >> >> > queries,
> >> >> >> > execute
> >> >> >> > them locally (but using real HTTP requests) and return in one
> >> >> >> > bulk. A
> >> >> >> > naive
> >> >> >> > implementation just to give a sense of what I mean of this would
> >> >> >> > be a
> >> >> >> > shell
> >> >> >> > script getting list of strings like
> >> >> >> > "https://localhost/ovirt-engine/api/vms/123/sessions" iterate
> over
> >> >> >> > them
> >> >> >> > and
> >> >> >> > do a curl request for each, mangle the results into one string
> and
> >> >> >> > return
> >> >> >> > (credits for this idea to msivak). Easy to implement,
> possibility
> >> >> >> > to
> >> >> >> > add
> >> >> >> > also projections later to save some bandwidth. But the API would
> >> >> >> > anyway
> >> >> >> > be
> >> >> >> > hammered by bunch of queries, only the network roundtrip would
> be
> >> >> >> > saved.
> >> >> >> > 3: any other simple approaches?
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > I honestly prefer the first approach. It is not beautiful, it is
> >> >> >> > not
> >> >> >> > REST-ful, but it is easy to implement, very pragmatic and
> useful.
> >> >> >> > What do you think?
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > Thank you and sorry for the long mail :)
> >> >> >> > Tomas
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > [1]: https://github.com/oVirt/moVirt
> >> >> >> > [2]: https://github.com/oVirt/ovirt-web-ui
> >> >> >> > [3]: https://gerrit.ovirt.org/#/c/61260
> >> >> >> > [4]: https://github.com/oVirt/ovirt-web-ui/pull/106/
> >> >> >> > [5]: https://gerrit.ovirt.org/#/c/45233/
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> >
> >> >> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> >> >> > Devel mailing list
> >> >> >> > Devel at ovirt.org
> >> >> >> > http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
> >> >> >> _______________________________________________
> >> >> >> Devel mailing list
> >> >> >> Devel at ovirt.org
> >> >> >> http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> >
> >> >> > --
> >> >> > Greg Sheremeta, MBA
> >> >> > Red Hat, Inc.
> >> >> > Sr. Software Engineer
> >> >> > gshereme at redhat.com
> >> >
> >> >
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Devel mailing list
> >> Devel at ovirt.org
> >> http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
> >
> >
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.ovirt.org/pipermail/devel/attachments/20170325/a818d664/attachment-0001.html>