<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
</head>
<body text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<font face="sans-serif" size="2">Hello team,</font>
<br>
<div class="moz-forward-container">
<br>
<font face="sans-serif" size="2">I had some discussions on the
fonts
and am interested in the current status. </font>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<font face="sans-serif" size="2"><b>Some background for non-UI
persons:</b></font>
<br>
<br>
<font face="sans-serif" size="2">First we need to distinguish
between
the server and the client.</font>
<br>
<br>
<font face="sans-serif" size="2">The server contains the
Kimchi/Ginger-webserver
and the Kimchi/Ginger-installation with functional and UI code.</font>
<br>
<font face="sans-serif" size="2">The client contains a browser
instance
connected to the Kimchi/Ginger-webserver and displays the UI. </font>
<br>
<br>
<font face="sans-serif" size="2">Per default the browser uses
fonts which
are installed on the client. Five generic fonts are available on
each client
operating system and are used as a default. </font>
<br>
<font face="sans-serif" size="2">In CSS/HTML you specify a list of
fonts
starting with the most preferred one and ending with a generic
one (default).</font>
<br>
<br>
<font face="sans-serif" size="2">You can also provide fonts via
the server.
This ensures that your preferred font is available at the
client. Such
fonts are part of the Kimchi/Ginger-installation on the server
(no additional
rpm).</font>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<font face="sans-serif" size="2"><b>My opinion on the font
discussion:</b></font>
<br>
<br>
<font face="sans-serif" size="2">1) Icon Font Awesome </font>
<br>
<font face="sans-serif" size="2"> This font is very useful
as it provides a lot of scalable icons. We should use/package
this font</font>
<br>
<br>
<font face="sans-serif" size="2">2) Fonts like "Open Sans"
and/or TeXGyreHeros as open source replacement for "Helvetica
Neue"</font>
<br>
<font face="sans-serif" size="2"> The sizes of graphical
elements vary much more depending on the language than on the
font. Our
layout must be flexible enough to support this.</font>
<br>
<font face="sans-serif" size="2"> My recommendation is to
use fonts which are already installed on the client.</font>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<font face="sans-serif" size="2">Kind regards</font>
<br>
<font face="sans-serif" size="2">Jan</font>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<font face="sans-serif" size="1" color="#5f5f5f">From:
</font><font face="sans-serif" size="1">Samuel Henrique De
Oliveira Guimaraes <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:samuel.guimaraes@eldorado.org.br"><samuel.guimaraes@eldorado.org.br></a></font>
<br>
<font face="sans-serif" size="1" color="#5f5f5f">To:
</font><font face="sans-serif" size="1">Kevin Zander
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:klzander@linux.vnet.ibm.com"><klzander@linux.vnet.ibm.com></a>,
Aline Manera <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:alinefm@linux.vnet.ibm.com"><alinefm@linux.vnet.ibm.com></a>,
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:kimchi-devel@ovirt.org">"kimchi-devel@ovirt.org"</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:kimchi-devel@ovirt.org"><kimchi-devel@ovirt.org></a>, <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:donspang@us.ibm.com">"donspang@us.ibm.com"</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:donspang@us.ibm.com"><donspang@us.ibm.com></a></font>
<br>
<font face="sans-serif" size="1" color="#5f5f5f">Date:
</font><font face="sans-serif" size="1">08/11/2015 07:13 PM</font>
<br>
<font face="sans-serif" size="1" color="#5f5f5f">Subject:
</font><font face="sans-serif" size="1">Re: [Kimchi-devel]
New-UI Helvetica Font</font>
<br>
<font face="sans-serif" size="1" color="#5f5f5f">Sent by:
</font><font face="sans-serif" size="1"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:kimchi-devel-bounces@ovirt.org">kimchi-devel-bounces@ovirt.org</a></font>
<br>
<hr noshade="noshade">
<br>
<br>
<br>
<font face="sans-serif" size="2" color="#004080">I thought that
since we
are packaging Font-Awesome, Elusive and other font files as
icons it was
ok to distribute Open Sans with Kimchi. I proposed moving to an
open source
and redistributable font family instead of a font stack because
a text
with Arial Unicode on Windows doesn’t fill the same space in
pixels as
a text with Helvetica Neue on OS X and iOS. Open Sans was an
alternative
because it has the same variations as Helvetica Neue and almost
the same
size (I mean letter spacing / tracking, kerning, body width,
leading and
height), we wouldn’t have “condensed” styles in one system and
plain
and regular bold and normal text in other systems.</font>
<br>
<font face="sans-serif" size="2" color="#004080"> </font>
<br>
<font face="sans-serif" size="2" color="#004080">Samuel</font>
<br>
<font face="sans-serif" size="2" color="#004080"> </font>
<br>
<font face="sans-serif" size="2"><b>From:</b> Kevin Zander [</font><a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:klzander@linux.vnet.ibm.com"><font
face="sans-serif" size="2">mailto:klzander@linux.vnet.ibm.com</font></a><font
face="sans-serif" size="2">]
<b><br>
Sent:</b> terça-feira, 11 de agosto de 2015 13:31<b><br>
To:</b> Aline Manera <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:alinefm@linux.vnet.ibm.com"><alinefm@linux.vnet.ibm.com></a>;
Samuel Henrique
De Oliveira Guimaraes <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:samuel.guimaraes@eldorado.org.br"><samuel.guimaraes@eldorado.org.br></a>;
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:kimchi-devel@ovirt.org">kimchi-devel@ovirt.org</a>;
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:donspang@us.ibm.com">donspang@us.ibm.com</a><b><br>
Subject:</b> Re: [Kimchi-devel] New-UI Helvetica Font</font>
<br>
<font face="sans-serif" size="2"> </font>
<br>
<font face="sans-serif" size="2">On Tue, 2015-08-11 at 12:01
-0300, Aline
Manera wrote:</font>
<br>
<font face="sans-serif" size="2"> </font>
<br>
<font face="sans-serif" size="2">On 10/08/2015 09:58, Samuel
Henrique
De Oliveira Guimaraes wrote:</font>
<br>
<font face="sans-serif" size="2" color="#004080">Hi team,</font>
<br>
<font face="sans-serif" size="2" color="#004080"> </font>
<br>
<font face="sans-serif" size="2" color="#004080">I’m sending some
screenshots
to compare different fonts so we can decide if we are going to
replace
Helvetica Neue for Open Sans and/or TeXGyreHeros.</font>
<br>
<font face="sans-serif" size="2" color="#004080">I also found out
that
Open Sans doesn’t have all the character glyphs for simplified
and traditional
Chinese, Japanese and Korean languages (wok_current.png file,
you can see
that these texts have jagged edges). The equivalent font for
these languages
is called Noto Sans CJK which is licensed under SIL Open Font
License (OFL).
The downside is that Noto Sans is very heavy (~88MB each
language set)
so we would have to figure a way to load these font files only
when the
user has changed the locale in the front-end.</font>
<br>
<font face="sans-serif" size="2" color="#004080"> </font>
<br>
<font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><br>
OH! Wait... The idea is to use an open source and wide used
font, which
means, Kimchi will not package any font file.<br>
<br>
Isn’t there an open source and wide used font which works with
all languages?</font>
<br>
<font face="Times New Roman" size="3"> </font>
<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.cssfontstack.com/"><font
face="Times New Roman" size="3" color="#0082bf"><u>http://www.cssfontstack.com/</u></font></a>
<br>
<font face="Times New Roman" size="3"> </font>
<br>
<font face="Times New Roman" size="3">Which of these has the best
unicode
support though, I cannot answer.</font>
<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unicode_font#List_of_Unicode_fonts"><font
face="Times New Roman" size="3" color="#0082bf"><u>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unicode_font#List_of_Unicode_fonts</u></font></a>
<br>
<font face="Times New Roman" size="3"> </font>
<br>
<font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><br>
</font>
<br>
<font face="sans-serif" size="2" color="#004080">Thanks,</font>
<br>
<font face="sans-serif" size="2" color="#004080"> </font>
<br>
<font face="sans-serif" size="2" color="#004080">Samuel Guimaraes</font>
<br>
<font face="sans-serif" size="2" color="#004080"> </font>
<br>
<font face="sans-serif" size="2" color="#004080"> </font>
<br>
<font face="sans-serif" size="2"><b>From:</b> Aline Manera [</font><a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:alinefm@linux.vnet.ibm.com"><font
face="sans-serif" size="2" color="#0082bf"><u>mailto:alinefm@linux.vnet.ibm.com</u></font></a><font
face="sans-serif" size="2">]
<b><br>
Sent:</b> quarta-feira, 5 de agosto de 2015 15:24<b><br>
To:</b> Samuel Henrique De Oliveira Guimaraes </font><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:samuel.guimaraes@eldorado.org.br"><font
face="sans-serif" size="2" color="#0082bf"><u><samuel.guimaraes@eldorado.org.br></u></font></a><font
face="sans-serif" size="2">;
</font><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:kimchi-devel@ovirt.org"><font face="sans-serif"
size="2" color="#0082bf"><u>kimchi-devel@ovirt.org</u></font></a><font
face="sans-serif" size="2">;
</font><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:donspang@us.ibm.com"><font
face="sans-serif" size="2" color="#0082bf"><u>donspang@us.ibm.com</u></font></a><font
face="sans-serif" size="2"><b><br>
Subject:</b> Re: [Kimchi-devel] New-UI Helvetica Font</font>
<br>
<font face="sans-serif" size="2"> </font>
<br>
<font face="sans-serif" size="3"> </font>
<br>
<font face="sans-serif" size="2">On 16/07/2015 13:09, Samuel
Henrique
De Oliveira Guimaraes wrote:</font>
<br>
<font face="sans-serif" size="2">Hi team,</font>
<br>
<font face="sans-serif" size="2"> </font>
<br>
<font face="sans-serif" size="2">I noticed that the new-ui design
pattern
for typography specifies Helvetica Neue family in four different
styles.
This font family is shipped with the latest versions of Mac OS X
and iOS
but it is not available for free on Windows and Linux
distributions.</font>
<br>
<font face="sans-serif" size="2">I believe this might conflict
with Kimchi
license. Even if we buy or rent a webfont license we can’t
distribute
the TTF, EOT, WOFF and SVG files in our repositories. I think
that we can’t
even use a webfont license in this case (pointing to a remote
location
or service like Adobe Typekit or MyFonts) because most
font-licensing services
are charging based on pre-paid pageviews.</font>
<br>
<font face="sans-serif" size="2">Usually for web apps, mobile web
apps
and cloud based services we have to buy a server license to
store the webfont
files within our servers, but since Kimchi is an open-source
project that
anyone can check out and run, every kimchi instance would have
to buy their
own font license.</font>
<br>
<font face="sans-serif" size="2"> </font>
<br>
<font face="sans-serif" size="3"><br>
<br>
</font>
<br>
<font face="sans-serif" size="2">We can set Helvetica as the
default
font-family in the CSS and if the user doesn’t have this font
installed
the browser will load the next available font (Arial or any
other Sans-Serif)
but since each font has different sizes, some elements may not
fit in the
screen exactly like they were seen in the mockups. </font>
<br>
<font face="sans-serif" size="3"><br>
Hrm... we should build the new UI with responsive web design in
mind which
means changing the font, font size, resizing the browser or
whatever will
not impact in the final layout.<br>
<br>
<br>
</font>
<br>
<font face="sans-serif" size="2">Also, the UI specs recommends
Helvetica
Neue in 5 different styles (Light, Roman, Regular, Medium and
Bold), most
system fonts only have 3. We don’t have something like “Arial
Light”
for instance.</font>
<br>
<font face="sans-serif" size="2"> </font>
<br>
<font face="sans-serif" size="2">My suggestion is that we replace
Helvetica
Neue for Open Sans because it covers all the style
specifications and it
is licensed under Apache 2.0. Any thoughts?</font>
<br>
<font face="sans-serif" size="2"> </font>
<br>
<font face="sans-serif" size="3"><br>
Could you provide a screenshot with the Open Sans font so we can
see how
it will look like?<br>
<br>
In first hand, I am OK to change to Open Sans.<br>
I am copying Don who originally designed the new UI with the
Helvetica
Neue font to check if he has any advice to do.<br>
<br>
<br>
</font>
<br>
<font face="sans-serif" size="2">Thanks,</font>
<br>
<font face="sans-serif" size="2">Samuel Guimarães</font>
<br>
<font face="sans-serif" size="2"> </font>
<br>
<font face="sans-serif" size="3"><br>
<br>
<br>
</font>
<br>
<font size="2">_______________________________________________</font>
<br>
<font size="2">Kimchi-devel mailing list</font>
<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:Kimchi-devel@ovirt.org"><font
size="2" color="#0082bf"><u>Kimchi-devel@ovirt.org</u></font></a>
<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/kimchi-devel"><font
size="2" color="#0082bf"><u>http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/kimchi-devel</u></font></a>
<br>
<font face="sans-serif" size="3"> </font>
<br>
<font face="Times New Roman" size="3"> </font>
<br>
<font size="2">_______________________________________________</font>
<br>
<font size="2">Kimchi-devel mailing list</font>
<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:Kimchi-devel@ovirt.org"><font
size="2" color="#0082bf"><u>Kimchi-devel@ovirt.org</u></font></a>
<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/kimchi-devel"><font
size="2" color="#0082bf"><u>http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/kimchi-devel</u></font></a><tt><font
size="2">_______________________________________________<br>
Kimchi-devel mailing list<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Kimchi-devel@ovirt.org">Kimchi-devel@ovirt.org</a><br>
</font></tt><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/kimchi-devel"><tt><font
size="2">http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/kimchi-devel</font></tt></a><tt><font
size="2"><br>
</font></tt>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
</div>
<br>
</body>
</html>