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    <p>Exactly Moacir, that is my point.</p>
    <p><br>
    </p>
    <p>A proper Distributed FIlesystem should not rely on any type of
      RAID as it can make its own redundancy without having to rely on
      any underneath layer (look at CEPH). Using RAID may help with
      management and in certain scenarios to replace a faulty disk, but
      at a cost, not cheap by the way.<br>
      That's why in terms of resourcing saving, if a replica 3 brings
      those issues mentioned it is much worth to have a small arbiter
      somewhere instead of wasting a significant amount of disk space.</p>
    <p><br>
      Fernando<br>
    </p>
    <br>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 08/08/2017 06:09, Moacir Ferreira
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:DB6P190MB02801EA0892B38F503220896C88A0@DB6P190MB0280.EURP190.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM">
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        <p>Fernando,</p>
        <p><br>
        </p>
        <p>Let's see what people say... But this is what I understood
          Red Hat says is the best performance model. This is the main
          reason to open this discussion because as long as I can see,
          some of you in the community, do not agree.<br>
        </p>
        <br>
        <p>But when I think about a "distributed file system", that can
          make any number of copies you want, it does not make sense
          using a RAIDed brick, what it makes sense is to use JBOD.</p>
        <p><br>
        </p>
        <p>Moacir<br>
        </p>
        <br>
        <div style="color: rgb(49, 55, 57);">
          <hr tabindex="-1" style="display:inline-block; width:98%">
          <div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font style="font-size:11pt"
              color="#000000" face="Calibri, sans-serif"><b>From:</b>
              <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:fernando.frediani@upx.com.br">fernando.frediani@upx.com.br</a>
              <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:fernando.frediani@upx.com.br">&lt;fernando.frediani@upx.com.br&gt;</a> on behalf of FERNANDO
              FREDIANI <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:fernando.frediani@upx.com">&lt;fernando.frediani@upx.com&gt;</a><br>
              <b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, August 8, 2017 3:08 AM<br>
              <b>To:</b> Moacir Ferreira<br>
              <b>Cc:</b> Colin Coe; <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:users@ovirt.org">users@ovirt.org</a><br>
              <b>Subject:</b> Re: [ovirt-users] Good practices</font>
            <div> </div>
          </div>
          <div>
            <div dir="ltr">
              <div>Moacir, I understand that if you do this type of
                configuration you will be severely impacted on storage
                performance, specially for writes. Even if you have a
                Hardware RAID Controller with Writeback cache you will
                have a significant performance penalty and may not fully
                use all the resources you mentioned you have.<br>
                <br>
              </div>
              Fernando<br>
            </div>
            <div class="gmail_extra"><br>
              <div class="gmail_quote">2017-08-07 10:03 GMT-03:00 Moacir
                Ferreira <span dir="ltr">
                  &lt;<a href="mailto:moacirferreira@hotmail.com"
                    target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">moacirferreira@hotmail.com</a>&gt;</span>:<br>
                <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
                  .8ex; border-left:1px #ccc solid; padding-left:1ex">
                  <div dir="ltr">
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                      <p>Hi Colin,</p>
                      <p><br>
                      </p>
                      <p>Take a look on Devin's response. Also, read the
                        doc he shared that gives some hints on how to
                        deploy Gluster.</p>
                      <p><br>
                      </p>
                      <p>It is more like that if you want
                        high-performance you should have the bricks
                        created as RAID (5 or 6) by the server's disk
                        controller and them assemble a JBOD GlusterFS.
                        The attached document is Gluster specific and
                        not for oVirt. But at this point I think that
                        having SSD will not be a plus as using the RAID
                        controller Gluster will not be aware of the SSD.
                        Regarding the OS, my idea is to have a RAID 1,
                        made of 2 low cost HDDs, to install it.</p>
                      <p><br>
                      </p>
                      <p>So far, based on the information received I
                        should create a single RAID 5 or 6 on each
                        server and then use this disk as a brick to
                        create my Gluster cluster, made of 2 replicas +
                        1 arbiter. What is new for me is the detail that
                        the arbiter does not need a lot of space as it
                        only keeps meta data.</p>
                      <p><br>
                      </p>
                      <p>Thanks for your response!<br>
                      </p>
                      Moacir<br>
                      <br>
                      <div style="color:rgb(49,55,57)">
                        <hr style="display:inline-block; width:98%">
                        <div id="m_1874859859842763104divRplyFwdMsg"
                          dir="ltr"><font style="font-size:11pt"
                            color="#000000" face="Calibri, sans-serif"><b>From:</b>
                            Colin Coe &lt;<a
                              href="mailto:colin.coe@gmail.com"
                              target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">colin.coe@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>
                            <b>Sent:</b> Monday, August 7, 2017 12:41 PM
                            <div>
                              <div class="h5"><br>
                                <b>To:</b> Moacir Ferreira<br>
                                <b>Cc:</b> <a
                                  href="mailto:users@ovirt.org"
                                  target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">users@ovirt.org</a><br>
                                <b>Subject:</b> Re: [ovirt-users] Good
                                practices</div>
                            </div>
                          </font>
                          <div> </div>
                        </div>
                        <div>
                          <div class="h5">
                            <div>
                              <div dir="ltr">Hi
                                <div><br>
                                </div>
                                <div>I just thought that you'd do
                                  hardware RAID if you had the
                                  controller or JBOD if you didn't.  In
                                  hindsight, a server with 40Gbps NICs
                                  is pretty likely to have a hardware
                                  RAID controller.  I've never done JBOD
                                  with hardware RAID.  I think having a
                                  single gluster brick on hardware JBOD
                                  would be riskier than multiple bricks,
                                  each on a single disk, but thats not
                                  based on anything other than my
                                  prejudices.</div>
                                <div><br>
                                </div>
                                <div>I thought gluster tiering was for
                                  the most frequently accessed files, in
                                  which case all the VMs disks would end
                                  up in the hot tier.  However, I have
                                  been wrong before...</div>
                                <div><br>
                                </div>
                                <div>I just wanted to know where the OS
                                  was going as I didn't see it mentioned
                                  in the OP.  Normally, I'd have the OS
                                  on a RAID1 but in your case thats a
                                  lot of wasted disk.</div>
                                <div><br>
                                </div>
                                <div>Honestly, I think Yaniv's answer
                                  was far better than my own and made
                                  the important point about having an
                                  arbiter. </div>
                                <div><br>
                                </div>
                                <div>Thanks</div>
                              </div>
                              <div class="gmail_extra"><br>
                                <div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Aug 7,
                                  2017 at 5:56 PM, Moacir Ferreira <span
                                    dir="ltr">
                                    &lt;<a
                                      href="mailto:moacirferreira@hotmail.com"
                                      target="_blank"
                                      moz-do-not-send="true">moacirferreira@hotmail.com</a>&gt;</span>
                                  wrote:<br>
                                  <blockquote class="gmail_quote"
                                    style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;
                                    border-left:1px #ccc solid;
                                    padding-left:1ex">
                                    <div dir="ltr">
                                      <div
                                        id="m_1874859859842763104m_4831886883305672718divtagdefaultwrapper"
                                        dir="ltr" style="font-size:12pt;
                                        color:#000000;
                                        font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif">
                                        <p>Hi Colin,</p>
                                        <p><br>
                                        </p>
                                        <p><span>I am in Portugal</span>,
                                          so sorry for this late
                                          response. It is quite
                                          confusing for me, please
                                          consider:</p>
                                        <div><b><br>
                                          </b>1<b> - </b>What if the
                                          RAID is done by the server's
                                          disk controller, not by
                                          software?</div>
                                        <br>
                                        <p>2 -<b> </b>For JBOD I am
                                          just using gdeploy to deploy
                                          it. However, I am not using
                                          the oVirt node GUI to do this.</p>
                                        <p><br>
                                        </p>
                                        <p>3 -<b> </b>As the VM
                                          .qcow2 files are quite big,
                                          tiering would only help if
                                          made by an intelligent system
                                          that uses SSD for chunks of
                                          data not for the entire .qcow2
                                          file. But I guess this is a
                                          problem everybody else has.
                                          So, Do you know how tiering
                                          works in Gluster?<br>
                                        </p>
                                        <p><br>
                                        </p>
                                        <p>4 - I am putting the OS on
                                          the first disk. However, would
                                          you do differently?<br>
                                        </p>
                                        <p><br>
                                        </p>
                                        Moacir<br>
                                        <br>
                                        <div style="color:rgb(49,55,57)">
                                          <hr
                                            style="display:inline-block;
                                            width:98%">
                                          <div
                                            id="m_1874859859842763104m_4831886883305672718divRplyFwdMsg"
                                            dir="ltr"><font
                                              style="font-size:11pt"
                                              color="#000000"
                                              face="Calibri, sans-serif"><b>From:</b>
                                              Colin Coe &lt;<a
                                                href="mailto:colin.coe@gmail.com"
                                                target="_blank"
                                                moz-do-not-send="true">colin.coe@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>
                                              <b>Sent:</b> Monday,
                                              August 7, 2017 4:48 AM<br>
                                              <b>To:</b> Moacir Ferreira<br>
                                              <b>Cc:</b> <a
                                                href="mailto:users@ovirt.org"
                                                target="_blank"
                                                moz-do-not-send="true">users@ovirt.org</a><br>
                                              <b>Subject:</b> Re:
                                              [ovirt-users] Good
                                              practices</font>
                                            <div> </div>
                                          </div>
                                          <div>
                                            <div dir="ltr">1) RAID5 may
                                              be a performance hit- <br>
                                              <div><br>
                                              </div>
                                              <div><span>2) I'd be
                                                  inclined to do this as
                                                  JBOD by creating a
                                                  distributed disperse
                                                  volume on each
                                                  server.  Something
                                                  like
                                                  <div><br>
                                                  </div>
                                                  <div>echo gluster
                                                    volume create
                                                    dispersevol
                                                    disperse-data 5
                                                    redundancy 2 \</div>
                                                  <div>$(for SERVER in a
                                                    b c; do for BRICK in
                                                    $(seq 1 5); do echo
                                                    -e
                                                    "server${SERVER}:/brick/brick-<wbr>${SERVER}${BRICK}/brick
                                                    \c"; done; done)</div>
                                                  <div><br>
                                                  </div>
                                                </span>
                                                <div>3) I think the
                                                  above. </div>
                                                <span>
                                                  <div><br>
                                                  </div>
                                                  <div>4) Gluster does
                                                    support tiering, but
                                                    IIRC you'd need the
                                                    same number of SSD
                                                    as spindle drives. 
                                                    There may be another
                                                    way to use the SSD
                                                    as a fast cache. </div>
                                                  <div><br>
                                                  </div>
                                                  <div>Where are you
                                                    putting the OS?</div>
                                                  <div><br>
                                                  </div>
                                                  <div>Hope I understood
                                                    the question...</div>
                                                  <div><br>
                                                  </div>
                                                  <div>Thanks</div>
                                                </span></div>
                                            </div>
                                            <span>
                                              <div class="gmail_extra"><br>
                                                <div class="gmail_quote">On
                                                  Sun, Aug 6, 2017 at
                                                  10:49 PM, Moacir
                                                  Ferreira <span
                                                    dir="ltr">
                                                    &lt;<a
                                                      href="mailto:moacirferreira@hotmail.com"
                                                      target="_blank"
                                                      moz-do-not-send="true">moacirferreira@hotmail.com</a>&gt;</span>
                                                  wrote:<br>
                                                  <blockquote
                                                    class="gmail_quote"
                                                    style="margin:0 0 0
                                                    .8ex;
                                                    border-left:1px #ccc
                                                    solid;
                                                    padding-left:1ex">
                                                    <div dir="ltr">
                                                      <div
id="m_1874859859842763104m_4831886883305672718m_2460985691746498322divtagdefaultwrapper"
                                                        dir="ltr"
                                                        style="font-size:12pt;
                                                        color:#000000;
                                                        font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif">
                                                        <p><span>I am
                                                          willing to
                                                          assemble a
                                                          oVirt "pod",
                                                          made of 3
                                                          servers, each
                                                          with 2 CPU
                                                          sockets of 12
                                                          cores, 256GB
                                                          RAM, 7 HDD
                                                          10K, 1 SSD.
                                                          The idea is to
                                                          use GlusterFS
                                                          to provide HA
                                                          for the VMs.
                                                          The 3 servers
                                                          have a dual
                                                          40Gb NIC and a
                                                          dual 10Gb NIC.
                                                          So my
                                                          intention is
                                                          to create a
                                                          loop like a
                                                          server
                                                          triangle using
                                                          the 40Gb NICs
                                                          for
                                                          virtualization
                                                          files (VMs
                                                          .qcow2) access
                                                          and to move
                                                          VMs around the
                                                          pod (east
                                                          /west traffic)
                                                          while using
                                                          the 10Gb
                                                          interfaces for
                                                          giving
                                                          services to
                                                          the outside
                                                          world
                                                          (north/south
                                                          traffic).</span></p>
                                                        <p><br>
                                                          <span></span></p>
                                                        <p>This said, my
                                                          first question
                                                          is: How should
                                                          I deploy
                                                          GlusterFS in
                                                          such oVirt
                                                          scenario? My
                                                          questions are:</p>
                                                        <p><br>
                                                        </p>
                                                        <p>1 - Should I
                                                          create 3 RAID
                                                          (i.e.: RAID
                                                          5), one on
                                                          each oVirt
                                                          node, and then
                                                          create a
                                                          GlusterFS
                                                          using them?</p>
                                                        <p>2 - Instead,
                                                          should I
                                                          create a JBOD
                                                          array made of
                                                          all server's
                                                          disks?</p>
                                                        <p>3 - What is
                                                          the best
                                                          Gluster
                                                          configuration
                                                          to provide for
                                                          HA while not
                                                          consuming too
                                                          much disk
                                                          space?<br>
                                                        </p>
                                                        <p>4 - Does a
                                                          oVirt
                                                          hypervisor pod
                                                          like I am
                                                          planning to
                                                          build, and the
                                                          virtualization
                                                          environment,
                                                          benefits from
                                                          tiering when
                                                          using a SSD
                                                          disk? And yes,
                                                          will Gluster
                                                          do it by
                                                          default or I
                                                          have to
                                                          configure it
                                                          to do so?</p>
                                                        <p><br>
                                                        </p>
                                                        <p>At the bottom
                                                          line, what is
                                                          the good
                                                          practice for
                                                          using
                                                          GlusterFS in
                                                          small pods for
                                                          enterprises?<br>
                                                        </p>
                                                        <p><br>
                                                        </p>
                                                        <p>You
                                                          opinion/feedback
                                                          will be really
                                                          appreciated!</p>
                                                        <span
                                                          class="m_1874859859842763104m_4831886883305672718HOEnZb"><font
color="#888888">
                                                          <p>Moacir<br>
                                                          </p>
                                                          </font></span></div>
                                                    </div>
                                                    <br>
______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
                                                    Users mailing list<br>
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                                                      href="mailto:Users@ovirt.org"
                                                      target="_blank"
                                                      moz-do-not-send="true">Users@ovirt.org</a><br>
                                                    <a
                                                      href="http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/users"
                                                      rel="noreferrer"
                                                      target="_blank"
                                                      moz-do-not-send="true">http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman<wbr>/listinfo/users</a><br>
                                                    <br>
                                                  </blockquote>
                                                </div>
                                                <br>
                                              </div>
                                            </span></div>
                                        </div>
                                      </div>
                                    </div>
                                  </blockquote>
                                </div>
                                <br>
                              </div>
                            </div>
                          </div>
                        </div>
                      </div>
                    </div>
                  </div>
                  <br>
                  ______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
                  Users mailing list<br>
                  <a href="mailto:Users@ovirt.org"
                    moz-do-not-send="true">Users@ovirt.org</a><br>
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