[Users] oVirt support for backup/restore
Hi, How can I do if I want to schedule a daily live-snapshot of a VM for backup purpose? I have backup software inside my VMs (Netvault), but in some cases I just want to do daily snapshots and use them as backups. -- Ricky Schneberger
On Mon, 04 Mar 2013 12:10:54 +0100 Ricky Schneberger <ricky@schneberger.se> wrote:
Hi,
How can I do if I want to schedule a daily live-snapshot of a VM for backup purpose?
I have backup software inside my VMs (Netvault), but in some cases I just want to do daily snapshots and use them as backups.
Live snapshot does not save memory state, IIRC. So either shutdown all VMs or do not think about this as solid backup solution.
On 2013-03-04 12:31, Jiri Belka wrote:
On Mon, 04 Mar 2013 12:10:54 +0100 Ricky Schneberger <ricky@schneberger.se> wrote:
Hi,
How can I do if I want to schedule a daily live-snapshot of a VM for backup purpose?
I have backup software inside my VMs (Netvault), but in some cases I just want to do daily snapshots and use them as backups.
Live snapshot does not save memory state, IIRC. So either shutdown all VMs or do not think about this as solid backup solution.
Hi, If I dont think about it as a solid solution, is it doable? Even with a manual live snapshot I will lack this memory state, right? All I want if I must restore a snapshot is to get the WM up on track in an earlier state. regards //Ricky
On Mon, 04 Mar 2013 12:52:53 +0100 Ricky Schneberger <ricky@schneberger.se> wrote:
Live snapshot does not save memory state, IIRC. So either shutdown all VMs or do not think about this as solid backup solution.
Hi, If I dont think about it as a solid solution, is it doable? Even with a manual live snapshot I will lack this memory state, right?
All I want if I must restore a snapshot is to get the WM up on track in an earlier state.
The "snapshot" like in VMWare world which saves even memory is called checkpoint in qemu-kvm world. And IIRC it is not implemented yet. Live snapshot is doable, no problem. The problem can be your design. As you know a lot of apps do not write to filesystem immediately, so snapshot backup is useless. So either shutdown/think twice or forget it. But others can have different view... Backup is thing you _must_ trust, if you design is broken, the consequences are terrific! If your goal is to have fast disaster recovery, then why not to have backup machine or some clustered solution? jbelka
On 2013-03-04 13:24, Jiri Belka wrote:
On Mon, 04 Mar 2013 12:52:53 +0100 Ricky Schneberger <ricky@schneberger.se> wrote:
Live snapshot does not save memory state, IIRC. So either shutdown all VMs or do not think about this as solid backup solution.
Hi, If I dont think about it as a solid solution, is it doable? Even with a manual live snapshot I will lack this memory state, right?
All I want if I must restore a snapshot is to get the WM up on track in an earlier state.
The "snapshot" like in VMWare world which saves even memory is called checkpoint in qemu-kvm world. And IIRC it is not implemented yet.
Live snapshot is doable, no problem. The problem can be your design. As you know a lot of apps do not write to filesystem immediately, so snapshot backup is useless. So either shutdown/think twice or forget it.
But others can have different view... Backup is thing you _must_ trust, if you design is broken, the consequences are terrific! If your goal is to have fast disaster recovery, then why not to have backup machine or some clustered solution?
jbelka
Thanks for your answer. We have both Netvault and Acronis on the most of the VMs, but then we have other VMs in the cluster that we want a daily scheduled snapshot implementation on, but we dont want to setup a complete backup solution on this VMs. It's testmachines, different virtual desktops, OCR-readers and so on. We have no needs of snapshots like in VMWare world for them, nor even a complete backup solution. There I think Ovirts snapshot handling should be perfect. //Ricky
On 04/03/2013 14:57, Ricky Schneberger wrote:
On 2013-03-04 13:24, Jiri Belka wrote:
On Mon, 04 Mar 2013 12:52:53 +0100 Ricky Schneberger <ricky@schneberger.se> wrote:
Live snapshot does not save memory state, IIRC. So either shutdown all VMs or do not think about this as solid backup solution.
Hi, If I dont think about it as a solid solution, is it doable? Even with a manual live snapshot I will lack this memory state, right?
All I want if I must restore a snapshot is to get the WM up on track in an earlier state.
The "snapshot" like in VMWare world which saves even memory is called checkpoint in qemu-kvm world. And IIRC it is not implemented yet.
Live snapshot is doable, no problem. The problem can be your design. As you know a lot of apps do not write to filesystem immediately, so snapshot backup is useless. So either shutdown/think twice or forget it.
But others can have different view... Backup is thing you _must_ trust, if you design is broken, the consequences are terrific! If your goal is to have fast disaster recovery, then why not to have backup machine or some clustered solution?
jbelka
Thanks for your answer.
We have both Netvault and Acronis on the most of the VMs, but then we have other VMs in the cluster that we want a daily scheduled snapshot implementation on, but we dont want to setup a complete backup solution on this VMs. It's testmachines, different virtual desktops, OCR-readers and so on. We have no needs of snapshots like in VMWare world for them, nor even a complete backup solution. There I think Ovirts snapshot handling should be perfect.
in general, you are correct - you don't care about live snapshot with memory, since you probably mostly care about backing up the disks. you may care, depending on the type of guest, on having a qemu-guest-agent installed, which would help with syncing the writes to the disks before the live snapshot is taken. something to test though is if a daily snapshot does not degrade the performance of the running VM, due to more COW layers (until the backup api and live merge are in place).
On Mon, Mar 4, 2013 at 2:02 PM, Itamar Heim wrote:
in general, you are correct - you don't care about live snapshot with memory, since you probably mostly care about backing up the disks. you may care, depending on the type of guest, on having a qemu-guest-agent installed, which would help with syncing the writes to the disks before the live snapshot is taken.
something to test though is if a daily snapshot does not degrade the performance of the running VM, due to more COW layers (until the backup api and live merge are in place).
hello, coming back to this topic. when you say " you may care, depending on the type of guest, on having a qemu-guest-agent installed, which would help with syncing the writes to the disks " do you refer to something in particular already implemented as a command or something similar? I have a CentOS 6 guest with rhev-guest-agent taken by dreyu repoan dwould like to test what available in case. Thanks, Gianluca
On 04/19/2013 10:33 AM, Gianluca Cecchi wrote:
On Mon, Mar 4, 2013 at 2:02 PM, Itamar Heim wrote:
in general, you are correct - you don't care about live snapshot with memory, since you probably mostly care about backing up the disks. you may care, depending on the type of guest, on having a qemu-guest-agent installed, which would help with syncing the writes to the disks before the live snapshot is taken.
something to test though is if a daily snapshot does not degrade the performance of the running VM, due to more COW layers (until the backup api and live merge are in place).
hello, coming back to this topic.
when you say " you may care, depending on the type of guest, on having a qemu-guest-agent installed, which would help with syncing the writes to the disks "
do you refer to something in particular already implemented as a command or something similar? I have a CentOS 6 guest with rhev-guest-agent taken by dreyu repoan dwould like to test what available in case.
Thanks, Gianluca
qemu-guest-agent isn't ovirt/rhev-guest-agent. now that qemu started their own guest agent, ovirt/rhev-guest-agent isn't used for things covered by the qemu-guest-agent.
On Fri, Apr 19, 2013 at 9:58 AM, Itamar Heim wrote:
qemu-guest-agent isn't ovirt/rhev-guest-agent. now that qemu started their own guest agent, ovirt/rhev-guest-agent isn't used for things covered by the qemu-guest-agent.
Ah, ok. SO after reading http://wiki.libvirt.org/page/Qemu_guest_agent some questions can we use ootb qemu-guest-agent with ovirt 3.2.1 if we have for example a CentOS 6 guest (with qemu-guest-agent-0.12.1.2-2.355)? Does oVirt create a virtio-serial port to communicate with libvit and does it use libvirt with any options to quiesce fs on guest? Can one use as an alternative the command fsfreeze in CentOS 6.4 guest (even if in tech preview) as in : https://access.redhat.com/site/documentation/en-US/Red_Hat_Enterprise_Linux/... Gianluca
On 04/19/2013 11:46 AM, Gianluca Cecchi wrote:
On Fri, Apr 19, 2013 at 9:58 AM, Itamar Heim wrote:
qemu-guest-agent isn't ovirt/rhev-guest-agent. now that qemu started their own guest agent, ovirt/rhev-guest-agent isn't used for things covered by the qemu-guest-agent.
Ah, ok. SO after reading http://wiki.libvirt.org/page/Qemu_guest_agent some questions
can we use ootb qemu-guest-agent with ovirt 3.2.1 if we have for example a CentOS 6 guest (with qemu-guest-agent-0.12.1.2-2.355)? Does oVirt create a virtio-serial port to communicate with libvit and does it use libvirt with any options to quiesce fs on guest?
iirc, it should work - testing/feedback would be welcome.
Can one use as an alternative the command fsfreeze in CentOS 6.4 guest (even if in tech preview) as in : https://access.redhat.com/site/documentation/en-US/Red_Hat_Enterprise_Linux/...
what i remember is that it supposed to be pluggable/configurable for you to run the relevant commands you want. ayal may remember better
----- Original Message -----
On 04/19/2013 11:46 AM, Gianluca Cecchi wrote:
On Fri, Apr 19, 2013 at 9:58 AM, Itamar Heim wrote:
qemu-guest-agent isn't ovirt/rhev-guest-agent. now that qemu started their own guest agent, ovirt/rhev-guest-agent isn't used for things covered by the qemu-guest-agent.
Ah, ok. SO after reading http://wiki.libvirt.org/page/Qemu_guest_agent some questions
can we use ootb qemu-guest-agent with ovirt 3.2.1 if we have for example a CentOS 6 guest (with qemu-guest-agent-0.12.1.2-2.355)? Does oVirt create a virtio-serial port to communicate with libvit and does it use libvirt with any options to quiesce fs on guest?
iirc, it should work - testing/feedback would be welcome.
I believe vdsm does not create the virtio-serial port when starting the VM, so you'd have to modify this behaviour with hooks [1]. Once you do that, whenever you create a live snapshot vdsm will notify libvirt to quiesce first. Note that afaik, quiesce in qemu-ga is only supported for Linux guests. VSS quiesce support patches have been submitted, but I'm not sure what the status is there yet. [1] Hooks preso: http://www.ovirt.org/File:OVirt-hooks-netapp-jan2013.odp
Can one use as an alternative the command fsfreeze in CentOS 6.4 guest (even if in tech preview) as in : https://access.redhat.com/site/documentation/en-US/Red_Hat_Enterprise_Linux/...
what i remember is that it supposed to be pluggable/configurable for you to run the relevant commands you want. ayal may remember better
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----- Original Message -----
sön 2013-04-21 klockan 08:42 -0400 skrev Ayal Baron:
----- Original Message -----
On 04/19/2013 11:46 AM, Gianluca Cecchi wrote:
On Fri, Apr 19, 2013 at 9:58 AM, Itamar Heim wrote:
qemu-guest-agent isn't ovirt/rhev-guest-agent. now that qemu started their own guest agent, ovirt/rhev-guest-agent isn't used for things covered by the qemu-guest-agent.
Ah, ok. SO after reading http://wiki.libvirt.org/page/Qemu_guest_agent some questions
can we use ootb qemu-guest-agent with ovirt 3.2.1 if we have for example a CentOS 6 guest (with qemu-guest-agent-0.12.1.2-2.355)? Does oVirt create a virtio-serial port to communicate with libvit and does it use libvirt with any options to quiesce fs on guest?
iirc, it should work - testing/feedback would be welcome.
I believe vdsm does not create the virtio-serial port when starting the VM, so you'd have to modify this behaviour with hooks [1]. Once you do that, whenever you create a live snapshot vdsm will notify libvirt to quiesce first. Note that afaik, quiesce in qemu-ga is only supported for Linux guests.
Really cool to hear how things are progressing! The qemu-ga quiesces what exactly? The guest filesystem? What about potential applications that might
Yes, it quiesces xfs/ext3/ext4 (I don't recall wrt btrfs) file systems.
be running inside the guest? Can you call live snapshots of a linux guest "Application Consistent"?
Linux has no such infrastructure atm. There are upstream patches for qemu-ga to support calling hooks before and after quiesce to allow users to freeze their apps so that the snapshot would be application consistent. This will require users to place their scripts inside the guest of course.
The good thing about Microsoft VSS is that MS applications are registered to VSS so that when you trigger VSS to quiece, all of the other applications are told to pause as well.
Indeed, there have been many discussions around this and there is a lot of interest around this topic, but I haven't seen any accepted solution as of yet.
/Karli
VSS quiesce support patches have been submitted, but I'm not sure what the status is there yet.
[1] Hooks preso: http://www.ovirt.org/File:OVirt-hooks-netapp-jan2013.odp
Can one use as an alternative the command fsfreeze in CentOS 6.4 guest (even if in tech preview) as in : https://access.redhat.com/site/documentation/en-US/Red_Hat_Enterprise_Linux/...
what i remember is that it supposed to be pluggable/configurable for you to run the relevant commands you want. ayal may remember better
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Med Vänliga Hälsningar ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Karli Sjöberg Swedish University of Agricultural Sciences Box 7079 (Visiting Address Kronåsvägen 8) S-750 07 Uppsala, Sweden Phone: +46-(0)18-67 15 66 karli.sjoberg@slu.se<mailto:karli.sjoberg@adm.slu.se>
participants (6)
-
Ayal Baron -
Gianluca Cecchi -
Itamar Heim -
Jiri Belka -
Karli Sjöberg -
Ricky Schneberger