what happens to vms when a host shutdowns?
Hi, We are installing UPS powerchute client on hypervisors. What is the default vms behaviour of running vms when an hypervisor is ordered to shutdown: do the vms live migrate or do they shutdown properly (even the restart on an other host because of HA) ? -- Nathanaël Blanchet Supervision réseau SIRE 227 avenue Professeur-Jean-Louis-Viala 34193 MONTPELLIER CEDEX 5 Tél. 33 (0)4 67 54 84 55 Fax 33 (0)4 67 54 84 14 blanchet@abes.fr
On Tue, Jul 6, 2021 at 1:11 PM Nathanaël Blanchet <blanchet@abes.fr> wrote:
We are installing UPS powerchute client on hypervisors.
What is the default vms behaviour of running vms when an hypervisor is ordered to shutdown: do the vms live migrate or do they shutdown properly (even the restart on an other host because of HA) ?
In general VMs are not restarted after an unexpected shutdown, but HA VMs are restarted after failures. If the HA VM has a lease, it can restart safely on another host regardless of the original host status. If the HA VM does not have a lease, the system must wait until the original host is up again to check if the VM is still running on this host. Arik can add more details on this. Nir
Il giorno mar 6 lug 2021 alle ore 13:03 Nir Soffer <nsoffer@redhat.com> ha scritto:
On Tue, Jul 6, 2021 at 1:11 PM Nathanaël Blanchet <blanchet@abes.fr> wrote:
We are installing UPS powerchute client on hypervisors.
What is the default vms behaviour of running vms when an hypervisor is ordered to shutdown: do the vms live migrate or do they shutdown properly (even the restart on an other host because of HA) ?
In general VMs are not restarted after an unexpected shutdown, but HA VMs are restarted after failures.
If the HA VM has a lease, it can restart safely on another host regardless of the original host status. If the HA VM does not have a lease, the system must wait until the original host is up again to check if the VM is still running on this host.
Arik can add more details on this.
I think the question is not related to what happens after the host is back. I think the question is what happens when the host goes down. To me, the right way to shutdown a host is putting it first to maintenance (VM evacuate to other hosts) and then shutdown. On emergency shutdown without moving the host to maintenance first I think libvirt is communicating the host is going down to the guests and tries to cleanly shutdown vms while the host is going down. Arik please confirm :-)
Nir _______________________________________________ Users mailing list -- users@ovirt.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave@ovirt.org Privacy Statement: https://www.ovirt.org/privacy-policy.html oVirt Code of Conduct: https://www.ovirt.org/community/about/community-guidelines/ List Archives: https://lists.ovirt.org/archives/list/users@ovirt.org/message/HXVXSLXQYZX6CQ...
-- Sandro Bonazzola MANAGER, SOFTWARE ENGINEERING, EMEA R&D RHV Red Hat EMEA <https://www.redhat.com/> sbonazzo@redhat.com <https://www.redhat.com/> *Red Hat respects your work life balance. Therefore there is no need to answer this email out of your office hours. <https://mojo.redhat.com/docs/DOC-1199578>*
This should be implemented in 4.2.3 and newer. There are more details in the RFE bugzilla: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1334982 I have never tested it :) On 7/6/21 1:29 PM, Sandro Bonazzola wrote:
Il giorno mar 6 lug 2021 alle ore 13:03 Nir Soffer <nsoffer@redhat.com <mailto:nsoffer@redhat.com>> ha scritto:
On Tue, Jul 6, 2021 at 1:11 PM Nathanaël Blanchet <blanchet@abes.fr <mailto:blanchet@abes.fr>> wrote: > We are installing UPS powerchute client on hypervisors. > > What is the default vms behaviour of running vms when an hypervisor is > ordered to shutdown: do the vms live migrate or do they shutdown > properly (even the restart on an other host because of HA) ?
In general VMs are not restarted after an unexpected shutdown, but HA VMs are restarted after failures.
If the HA VM has a lease, it can restart safely on another host regardless of the original host status. If the HA VM does not have a lease, the system must wait until the original host is up again to check if the VM is still running on this host.
Arik can add more details on this.
I think the question is not related to what happens after the host is back. I think the question is what happens when the host goes down. To me, the right way to shutdown a host is putting it first to maintenance (VM evacuate to other hosts) and then shutdown. On emergency shutdown without moving the host to maintenance first I think libvirt is communicating the host is going down to the guests and tries to cleanly shutdown vms while the host is going down. Arik please confirm :-)
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Red Hat EMEA <https://www.redhat.com/>
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*Red Hat respects your work life balance. Therefore there is no need to answer this email out of your office hours. <https://mojo.redhat.com/docs/DOC-1199578>* *
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Il giorno mar 6 lug 2021 alle ore 13:45 Klaas Demter <klaasdemter@gmail.com> ha scritto:
This should be implemented in 4.2.3 and newer. There are more details in the RFE bugzilla:
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1334982
I have never tested it :)
Corresponding libvirt bug: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1401054
On 7/6/21 1:29 PM, Sandro Bonazzola wrote:
Il giorno mar 6 lug 2021 alle ore 13:03 Nir Soffer <nsoffer@redhat.com> ha scritto:
On Tue, Jul 6, 2021 at 1:11 PM Nathanaël Blanchet <blanchet@abes.fr> wrote:
We are installing UPS powerchute client on hypervisors.
What is the default vms behaviour of running vms when an hypervisor is ordered to shutdown: do the vms live migrate or do they shutdown properly (even the restart on an other host because of HA) ?
In general VMs are not restarted after an unexpected shutdown, but HA VMs are restarted after failures.
If the HA VM has a lease, it can restart safely on another host regardless of the original host status. If the HA VM does not have a lease, the system must wait until the original host is up again to check if the VM is still running on this host.
Arik can add more details on this.
I think the question is not related to what happens after the host is back. I think the question is what happens when the host goes down. To me, the right way to shutdown a host is putting it first to maintenance (VM evacuate to other hosts) and then shutdown. On emergency shutdown without moving the host to maintenance first I think libvirt is communicating the host is going down to the guests and tries to cleanly shutdown vms while the host is going down. Arik please confirm :-)
Nir _______________________________________________ Users mailing list -- users@ovirt.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave@ovirt.org Privacy Statement: https://www.ovirt.org/privacy-policy.html oVirt Code of Conduct: https://www.ovirt.org/community/about/community-guidelines/ List Archives: https://lists.ovirt.org/archives/list/users@ovirt.org/message/HXVXSLXQYZX6CQ...
--
Sandro Bonazzola
MANAGER, SOFTWARE ENGINEERING, EMEA R&D RHV
Red Hat EMEA <https://www.redhat.com/>
sbonazzo@redhat.com <https://www.redhat.com/>
*Red Hat respects your work life balance. Therefore there is no need to answer this email out of your office hours. <https://mojo.redhat.com/docs/DOC-1199578>*
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-- Sandro Bonazzola MANAGER, SOFTWARE ENGINEERING, EMEA R&D RHV Red Hat EMEA <https://www.redhat.com/> sbonazzo@redhat.com <https://www.redhat.com/> *Red Hat respects your work life balance. Therefore there is no need to answer this email out of your office hours. <https://mojo.redhat.com/docs/DOC-1199578>*
On Tue, Jul 6, 2021 at 2:29 PM Sandro Bonazzola <sbonazzo@redhat.com> wrote:
Il giorno mar 6 lug 2021 alle ore 13:03 Nir Soffer <nsoffer@redhat.com> ha scritto:
On Tue, Jul 6, 2021 at 1:11 PM Nathanaël Blanchet <blanchet@abes.fr> wrote:
We are installing UPS powerchute client on hypervisors.
What is the default vms behaviour of running vms when an hypervisor is ordered to shutdown: do the vms live migrate or do they shutdown properly (even the restart on an other host because of HA) ?
In general VMs are not restarted after an unexpected shutdown, but HA VMs are restarted after failures.
If the HA VM has a lease, it can restart safely on another host regardless of the original host status. If the HA VM does not have a lease, the system must wait until the original host is up again to check if the VM is still running on this host.
Arik can add more details on this.
I think the question is not related to what happens after the host is back. I think the question is what happens when the host goes down. To me, the right way to shutdown a host is putting it first to maintenance (VM evacuate to other hosts) and then shutdown.
Right, but the we don't have integration with the UPS, so engine cannot put the host to maintenance when the host lose power and the UPS will shut it down after few minutes.
On emergency shutdown without moving the host to maintenance first I think libvirt is communicating the host is going down to the guests and tries to cleanly shutdown vms while the host is going down. Arik please confirm :-)
Nir _______________________________________________ Users mailing list -- users@ovirt.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave@ovirt.org Privacy Statement: https://www.ovirt.org/privacy-policy.html oVirt Code of Conduct: https://www.ovirt.org/community/about/community-guidelines/ List Archives: https://lists.ovirt.org/archives/list/users@ovirt.org/message/HXVXSLXQYZX6CQ...
--
Sandro Bonazzola
MANAGER, SOFTWARE ENGINEERING, EMEA R&D RHV
Red Hat EMEA <https://www.redhat.com/>
sbonazzo@redhat.com <https://www.redhat.com/>
*Red Hat respects your work life balance. Therefore there is no need to answer this email out of your office hours. <https://mojo.redhat.com/docs/DOC-1199578>*
On Tue, Jul 6, 2021 at 8:13 AM Nir Soffer <nsoffer@redhat.com> wrote:
On Tue, Jul 6, 2021 at 2:29 PM Sandro Bonazzola <sbonazzo@redhat.com> wrote:
Il giorno mar 6 lug 2021 alle ore 13:03 Nir Soffer <nsoffer@redhat.com> ha scritto:
On Tue, Jul 6, 2021 at 1:11 PM Nathanaël Blanchet <blanchet@abes.fr> wrote:
We are installing UPS powerchute client on hypervisors.
What is the default vms behaviour of running vms when an hypervisor is ordered to shutdown: do the vms live migrate or do they shutdown properly (even the restart on an other host because of HA) ?
In general VMs are not restarted after an unexpected shutdown, but HA VMs are restarted after failures.
If the HA VM has a lease, it can restart safely on another host regardless of the original host status. If the HA VM does not have a lease, the system must wait until the original host is up again to check if the VM is still running on this host.
Arik can add more details on this.
I think the question is not related to what happens after the host is back. I think the question is what happens when the host goes down. To me, the right way to shutdown a host is putting it first to maintenance (VM evacuate to other hosts) and then shutdown.
Right, but the we don't have integration with the UPS, so engine cannot put the host to maintenance when the host lose power and the UPS will shut it down after few minutes.
This is outside of the scope of oVirt team: Perhaps one could combine multiple applications ( NUT + Ansible + Nagios/Zabbix ) to notify the oVirt engine to switch a host to maintenance? NUT[0] could be configured to alert a monitoring system ( like Nagios or Zabbix) to trigger an Ansible playbook [1][2] to put the host in maintenance mode, and the trigger should happen before the UPS battery is depleted (you'll have to account for the time it takes to live migrate VMs). [0] Network UPS Tools https://networkupstools.org/docs/user-manual.chunked/index.html [1] https://www.ovirt.org/develop/release-management/features/infra/ansible_modu... [2] https://docs.ansible.com/ansible/latest/collections/ovirt/ovirt/ovirt_host_m...
On Tue, Jul 6, 2021 at 5:58 PM Scott Worthington <scott.c.worthington@gmail.com> wrote:
On Tue, Jul 6, 2021 at 8:13 AM Nir Soffer <nsoffer@redhat.com> wrote:
On Tue, Jul 6, 2021 at 2:29 PM Sandro Bonazzola <sbonazzo@redhat.com> wrote:
Il giorno mar 6 lug 2021 alle ore 13:03 Nir Soffer <nsoffer@redhat.com> ha scritto:
On Tue, Jul 6, 2021 at 1:11 PM Nathanaël Blanchet <blanchet@abes.fr> wrote:
We are installing UPS powerchute client on hypervisors.
What is the default vms behaviour of running vms when an hypervisor is ordered to shutdown: do the vms live migrate or do they shutdown properly (even the restart on an other host because of HA) ?
In general VMs are not restarted after an unexpected shutdown, but HA VMs are restarted after failures.
If the HA VM has a lease, it can restart safely on another host regardless of the original host status. If the HA VM does not have a lease, the system must wait until the original host is up again to check if the VM is still running on this host.
Arik can add more details on this.
I think the question is not related to what happens after the host is back. I think the question is what happens when the host goes down. To me, the right way to shutdown a host is putting it first to maintenance (VM evacuate to other hosts) and then shutdown.
Right, but the we don't have integration with the UPS, so engine cannot put the host to maintenance when the host lose power and the UPS will shut it down after few minutes.
This is outside of the scope of oVirt team:
Perhaps one could combine multiple applications ( NUT + Ansible + Nagios/Zabbix ) to notify the oVirt engine to switch a host to maintenance?
NUT[0] could be configured to alert a monitoring system ( like Nagios or Zabbix) to trigger an Ansible playbook [1][2] to put the host in maintenance mode, and the trigger should happen before the UPS battery is depleted (you'll have to account for the time it takes to live migrate VMs).
I would trigger this once power is lost. You never know how much time migration will take, so best migrate all vms immediately. It would be nice to integrate this with engine, but we can start by something like you describe, that will use engine API/SDK to prepare the hosts for graceful shutdown.
[0] Network UPS Tools https://networkupstools.org/docs/user-manual.chunked/index.html [1] https://www.ovirt.org/develop/release-management/features/infra/ansible_modu... [2] https://docs.ansible.com/ansible/latest/collections/ovirt/ovirt/ovirt_host_m...
Il giorno mar 6 lug 2021 alle ore 17:33 Nir Soffer <nsoffer@redhat.com> ha scritto:
On Tue, Jul 6, 2021 at 5:58 PM Scott Worthington <scott.c.worthington@gmail.com> wrote:
On Tue, Jul 6, 2021 at 8:13 AM Nir Soffer <nsoffer@redhat.com> wrote:
On Tue, Jul 6, 2021 at 2:29 PM Sandro Bonazzola <sbonazzo@redhat.com>
Il giorno mar 6 lug 2021 alle ore 13:03 Nir Soffer <nsoffer@redhat.com>
ha scritto:
On Tue, Jul 6, 2021 at 1:11 PM Nathanaël Blanchet <blanchet@abes.fr>
wrote:
We are installing UPS powerchute client on hypervisors.
What is the default vms behaviour of running vms when an hypervisor is ordered to shutdown: do the vms live migrate or do they shutdown properly (even the restart on an other host because of HA) ?
In general VMs are not restarted after an unexpected shutdown, but HA VMs are restarted after failures.
If the HA VM has a lease, it can restart safely on another host regardless of the original host status. If the HA VM does not have a lease, the system must wait until the original host is up again to check if the VM is still running on this host.
Arik can add more details on this.
I think the question is not related to what happens after the host is back. I think the question is what happens when the host goes down. To me, the right way to shutdown a host is putting it first to
Right, but the we don't have integration with the UPS, so engine cannot
to maintenance when the host lose power and the UPS will shut it down after few minutes.
This is outside of the scope of oVirt team:
Perhaps one could combine multiple applications ( NUT + Ansible + Nagios/Zabbix ) to notify the oVirt engine to switch a host to maintenance?
NUT[0] could be configured to alert a monitoring system ( like Nagios or Zabbix) to trigger an Ansible playbook [1][2] to put the host in
wrote: maintenance (VM evacuate to other hosts) and then shutdown. put the host maintenance mode, and the trigger should happen before the UPS battery is depleted (you'll have to account for the time it takes to live migrate VMs).
I would trigger this once power is lost. You never know how much time migration will take, so best migrate all vms immediately.
It would be nice to integrate this with engine, but we can start by something like you describe, that will use engine API/SDK to prepare the hosts for graceful shutdown.
we already have a role for immediate shutdown of the whole datacenter: https://github.com/oVirt/ovirt-ansible-shutdown-env now integrated in ansible collection https://github.com/oVirt/ovirt-ansible-collection/tree/master/roles/shutdown...
[0] Network UPS Tools https://networkupstools.org/docs/user-manual.chunked/index.html [1] https://www.ovirt.org/develop/release-management/features/infra/ansible_modu... [2] https://docs.ansible.com/ansible/latest/collections/ovirt/ovirt/ovirt_host_m...
-- Sandro Bonazzola MANAGER, SOFTWARE ENGINEERING, EMEA R&D RHV Red Hat EMEA <https://www.redhat.com/> sbonazzo@redhat.com <https://www.redhat.com/> *Red Hat respects your work life balance. Therefore there is no need to answer this email out of your office hours. <https://mojo.redhat.com/docs/DOC-1199578>*
On Tue, Jul 6, 2021 at 7:02 PM Sandro Bonazzola <sbonazzo@redhat.com> wrote:
Il giorno mar 6 lug 2021 alle ore 17:33 Nir Soffer <nsoffer@redhat.com> ha scritto:
On Tue, Jul 6, 2021 at 5:58 PM Scott Worthington <scott.c.worthington@gmail.com> wrote:
On Tue, Jul 6, 2021 at 8:13 AM Nir Soffer <nsoffer@redhat.com> wrote:
On Tue, Jul 6, 2021 at 2:29 PM Sandro Bonazzola <sbonazzo@redhat.com>
Il giorno mar 6 lug 2021 alle ore 13:03 Nir Soffer <
nsoffer@redhat.com> ha scritto:
On Tue, Jul 6, 2021 at 1:11 PM Nathanaël Blanchet <blanchet@abes.fr>
wrote:
> We are installing UPS powerchute client on hypervisors. > > What is the default vms behaviour of running vms when an hypervisor is > ordered to shutdown: do the vms live migrate or do they shutdown > properly (even the restart on an other host because of HA) ?
In general VMs are not restarted after an unexpected shutdown, but HA VMs are restarted after failures.
If the HA VM has a lease, it can restart safely on another host regardless of the original host status. If the HA VM does not have a lease, the system must wait until the original host is up again to check if the VM is still running on this host.
Arik can add more details on this.
I think the question is not related to what happens after the host is back. I think the question is what happens when the host goes down. To me, the right way to shutdown a host is putting it first to
Right, but the we don't have integration with the UPS, so engine
cannot put the host
to maintenance when the host lose power and the UPS will shut it down after few minutes.
This is outside of the scope of oVirt team:
Perhaps one could combine multiple applications ( NUT + Ansible + Nagios/Zabbix ) to notify the oVirt engine to switch a host to maintenance?
NUT[0] could be configured to alert a monitoring system ( like Nagios or Zabbix) to trigger an Ansible playbook [1][2] to put the host in
wrote: maintenance (VM evacuate to other hosts) and then shutdown. maintenance mode, and the trigger should happen before the UPS battery is depleted (you'll have to account for the time it takes to live migrate VMs).
I would trigger this once power is lost. You never know how much time migration will take, so best migrate all vms immediately.
It would be nice to integrate this with engine, but we can start by something like you describe, that will use engine API/SDK to prepare the hosts for graceful shutdown.
There are pros and cons to this approach. If the workloads manage to get evacuated quickly, before libvirt-guests starts shutting them down, that's great. But what happens if the VMs are still migrated after libvirt-guests initiated shutdowns? Think about the following case: 1. A highly available VM starts migrating 2. libvirt-guests tries to shut down the guest 3. The migration completed 4. The guest shuts down while it runs on the destination host I'm not sure that we'll treat that case as a non-intentional shutdown since we may lose the context of the shutdown while the VM runs to the destination host and therefore won't try to restart the VM automatically.
we already have a role for immediate shutdown of the whole datacenter: https://github.com/oVirt/ovirt-ansible-shutdown-env now integrated in ansible collection https://github.com/oVirt/ovirt-ansible-collection/tree/master/roles/shutdown...
[0] Network UPS Tools https://networkupstools.org/docs/user-manual.chunked/index.html [1] https://www.ovirt.org/develop/release-management/features/infra/ansible_modu... [2] https://docs.ansible.com/ansible/latest/collections/ovirt/ovirt/ovirt_host_m...
--
Sandro Bonazzola
MANAGER, SOFTWARE ENGINEERING, EMEA R&D RHV
Red Hat EMEA <https://www.redhat.com/>
sbonazzo@redhat.com <https://www.redhat.com/>
*Red Hat respects your work life balance. Therefore there is no need to answer this email out of your office hours. <https://mojo.redhat.com/docs/DOC-1199578>*
_______________________________________________ Users mailing list -- users@ovirt.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave@ovirt.org Privacy Statement: https://www.ovirt.org/privacy-policy.html oVirt Code of Conduct: https://www.ovirt.org/community/about/community-guidelines/ List Archives: https://lists.ovirt.org/archives/list/users@ovirt.org/message/TYCMHTXMBD2KLG...
On Tue, Jul 6, 2021 at 3:13 PM Nir Soffer <nsoffer@redhat.com> wrote:
On Tue, Jul 6, 2021 at 2:29 PM Sandro Bonazzola <sbonazzo@redhat.com> wrote:
Il giorno mar 6 lug 2021 alle ore 13:03 Nir Soffer <nsoffer@redhat.com> ha scritto:
On Tue, Jul 6, 2021 at 1:11 PM Nathanaël Blanchet <blanchet@abes.fr> wrote:
We are installing UPS powerchute client on hypervisors.
What is the default vms behaviour of running vms when an hypervisor is ordered to shutdown: do the vms live migrate or do they shutdown properly (even the restart on an other host because of HA) ?
In general VMs are not restarted after an unexpected shutdown, but HA VMs are restarted after failures.
If the HA VM has a lease, it can restart safely on another host regardless of the original host status. If the HA VM does not have a lease, the system must wait until the original host is up again to check if the VM is still running on this host.
Arik can add more details on this.
I think the question is not related to what happens after the host is back. I think the question is what happens when the host goes down. To me, the right way to shutdown a host is putting it first to maintenance (VM evacuate to other hosts) and then shutdown.
Right, but the we don't have integration with the UPS, so engine cannot put the host to maintenance when the host lose power and the UPS will shut it down after few minutes.
On emergency shutdown without moving the host to maintenance first I think libvirt is communicating the host is going down to the guests and tries to cleanly shutdown vms while the host is going down. Arik please confirm :-)
Yes, that is correct. If the host shuts down, libvirt-guests attempt to shut down the guests gracefully.
Nir _______________________________________________ Users mailing list -- users@ovirt.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave@ovirt.org Privacy Statement: https://www.ovirt.org/privacy-policy.html oVirt Code of Conduct: https://www.ovirt.org/community/about/community-guidelines/ List Archives: https://lists.ovirt.org/archives/list/users@ovirt.org/message/HXVXSLXQYZX6CQ...
--
Sandro Bonazzola
MANAGER, SOFTWARE ENGINEERING, EMEA R&D RHV
Red Hat EMEA <https://www.redhat.com/>
sbonazzo@redhat.com <https://www.redhat.com/>
*Red Hat respects your work life balance. Therefore there is no need to answer this email out of your office hours. <https://mojo.redhat.com/docs/DOC-1199578>*
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Users mailing list -- users@ovirt.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave@ovirt.org Privacy Statement: https://www.ovirt.org/privacy-policy.html oVirt Code of Conduct: https://www.ovirt.org/community/about/community-guidelines/ List Archives: https://lists.ovirt.org/archives/list/users@ovirt.org/message/7Q7XXOL3JXL2L4...
Hi, Just tested it (run /shutdown now /from the host command prompt) and the VM reports a previous crash not a graceful shutdown. We're on the Oracle flavor of oVirt. (4.3) The VM is a Windows 2022 VM w/ latest agent (from https://fedorapeople.org/groups/virt/virtio-win/direct-downloads/archive-qem... ) -- *Laurent Duparchy ESRF - The European Synchrotron MIS Unit 04 76 88 22 56*
participants (7)
-
Arik Hadas -
Klaas Demter -
Laurent Duparchy -
Nathanaël Blanchet -
Nir Soffer -
Sandro Bonazzola -
Scott Worthington