[Engine-devel] [vdsm] stale gerrit patches

[Ayal Baron]

----- Original Message -----
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Ayal Baron" <abaron at redhat.com>
> > To: "Alon Bar-Lev" <alonbl at redhat.com>
> > Cc: "Itamar Heim" <iheim at redhat.com>, "engine-devel"
> > <engine-devel at ovirt.org>, vdsm-devel at lists.fedorahosted.org
> > Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2013 10:09:46 AM
> > Subject: Re: [vdsm] stale gerrit patches
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > > 
> > > 
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Ayal Baron" <abaron at redhat.com>
> > > > To: "Alon Bar-Lev" <alonbl at redhat.com>
> > > > Cc: "Itamar Heim" <iheim at redhat.com>, "engine-devel"
> > > > <engine-devel at ovirt.org>, vdsm-devel at lists.fedorahosted.org
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2013 9:20:55 AM
> > > > Subject: Re: [vdsm] stale gerrit patches
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > From: "Ayal Baron" <abaron at redhat.com>
> > > > > > To: "Alon Bar-Lev" <alonbl at redhat.com>
> > > > > > Cc: "Itamar Heim" <iheim at redhat.com>, "engine-devel"
> > > > > > <engine-devel at ovirt.org>, vdsm-devel at lists.fedorahosted.org
> > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2013 12:21:23 AM
> > > > > > Subject: Re: [vdsm] stale gerrit patches
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > > From: "Itamar Heim" <iheim at redhat.com>
> > > > > > > > To: "Alon Bar-Lev" <alonbl at redhat.com>
> > > > > > > > Cc: "David Caro" <dcaroest at redhat.com>, "engine-devel"
> > > > > > > > <engine-devel at ovirt.org>, vdsm-devel at lists.fedorahosted.org
> > > > > > > > Sent: Monday, September 23, 2013 1:54:39 PM
> > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [vdsm] stale gerrit patches
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > On 09/23/2013 01:52 PM, Alon Bar-Lev wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > > >> From: "Itamar Heim" <iheim at redhat.com>
> > > > > > > > >> To: "Alon Bar-Lev" <alonbl at redhat.com>
> > > > > > > > >> Cc: "David Caro" <dcaroest at redhat.com>, "engine-devel"
> > > > > > > > >> <engine-devel at ovirt.org>, vdsm-devel at lists.fedorahosted.org
> > > > > > > > >> Sent: Monday, September 23, 2013 1:50:35 PM
> > > > > > > > >> Subject: Re: [vdsm] stale gerrit patches
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >> On 09/23/2013 01:49 PM, Alon Bar-Lev wrote:
> > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > > >>> ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > > >>>> From: "Itamar Heim" <iheim at redhat.com>
> > > > > > > > >>>> To: "David Caro" <dcaroest at redhat.com>
> > > > > > > > >>>> Cc: "engine-devel" <engine-devel at ovirt.org>,
> > > > > > > > >>>> vdsm-devel at lists.fedorahosted.org
> > > > > > > > >>>> Sent: Monday, September 23, 2013 1:47:47 PM
> > > > > > > > >>>> Subject: Re: [vdsm] stale gerrit patches
> > > > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>> On 09/23/2013 01:46 PM, David Caro wrote:
> > > > > > > > >>>>> On Mon 23 Sep 2013 12:36:58 PM CEST, Itamar Heim wrote:
> > > > > > > > >>>>>> we have some very old gerrit patches.
> > > > > > > > >>>>>> I'm for abandoning patches which were not touched over
> > > > > > > > >>>>>> 60
> > > > > > > > >>>>>> days
> > > > > > > > >>>>>> (to
> > > > > > > > >>>>>> begin with, I think the number should actually be
> > > > > > > > >>>>>> lower).
> > > > > > > > >>>>>> they can always be re-opened by any interested party
> > > > > > > > >>>>>> post
> > > > > > > > >>>>>> their
> > > > > > > > >>>>>> closure.
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>>>> i.e., looking at gerrit, the patch list should actually
> > > > > > > > >>>>>> get
> > > > > > > > >>>>>> attention,
> > > > > > > > >>>>>> and not be a few worth looking at, with a "lot of old
> > > > > > > > >>>>>> patches"
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>>>> thoughts?
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>>>> Thanks,
> > > > > > > > >>>>>>       Itamar
> > > > > > > > >>>>>> _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > > >>>>>> vdsm-devel mailing list
> > > > > > > > >>>>>> vdsm-devel at lists.fedorahosted.org
> > > > > > > > >>>>>> https://lists.fedorahosted.org/mailman/listinfo/vdsm-devel
> > > > > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>>> It might helpful to have a cron-like script that checks
> > > > > > > > >>>>> the
> > > > > > > > >>>>> age
> > > > > > > > >>>>> of
> > > > > > > > >>>>> the
> > > > > > > > >>>>> posts and first notifies the sender, the reviewers and
> > > > > > > > >>>>> the
> > > > > > > > >>>>> maintainer,
> > > > > > > > >>>>> and if the patch is not updated in a certain period just
> > > > > > > > >>>>> abandons
> > > > > > > > >>>>> it.
> > > > > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > > > >>>> yep - warn after X days via email to just owner (or all
> > > > > > > > >>>> subscribed
> > > > > > > > >>>> to
> > > > > > > > >>>> the patch), and close if no activity for X+14 days or
> > > > > > > > >>>> something
> > > > > > > > >>>> like
> > > > > > > > >>>> that.
> > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > > >>> This will be annoying.
> > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > > >>> And there are patches that pending with good reason.
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >> pending for 60 days with zero activity on them (no comment,
> > > > > > > > >> no
> > > > > > > > >> rebase,
> > > > > > > > >> nothing)?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > http://gerrit.ovirt.org/#/q/status:open+project:ovirt-engine+branch:master+topic:independent_deployments,n,z
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > so how does it help us to have these patches, some without any
> > > > > > > > comment
> > > > > > > > from any reviewer.
> > > > > > > > lets get them reviewed and decide one way or the other, rather
> > > > > > > > than
> > > > > > > > let
> > > > > > > > them get old and stay forever
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > Again... maintainer can close these if he likes.
> > > > > > > Owner can close these if he likes.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > right, but why?
> > > > > > a patch without activity being abandoned might actually spur
> > > > > > someone
> > > > > > into
> > > > > > motion (rebasing and resubmitting, prodding maintainers etc).
> > > > > > I'm +1 for automatically abandoning old patches.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > I do not understand why maintainer should not have human interaction
> > > > > with
> > > > > its
> > > > > contributers.
> > > > 
> > > > I do not understand the relation between the subject and the things
> > > > you're
> > > > saying.
> > > > Right now these patches are stale and are rotting, abandoning them
> > > > could
> > > > actually spur those interactions into motion.
> > > 
> > > You prefer machines to interact with contributers to kick them in motion.
> > > I believe that human interaction and discussion between maintainer and
> > > contributer is the way to go.
> > > It is much more polite and cooperative for maintainer that is not aware
> > > of
> > > anything blocking a progress to kindly interact with contributer and
> > > finally
> > > close the change if contributer is unresponsive and/or change has no
> > > value.
> > 
> > Personally I see nothing impolite about automatically abandoning patches if
> > it is clear to contributors that this the expected behaviour.
> 
> It has nothing to do with polite, but build relationship between people and
> not force people to reopen important changes and explain them-selves every
> time a machine decides to.
> 
> > Other projects abandon automatically after a week and from what I've seen
> > that is working well to get things in motion and get those interactions
> > that
> > you (and I) want, rolling.
> 
> The herd argument is never accepted by me, the herd seldom has definite
> wisdom.
> 
> I would like maintainers to build human relationship with their contributers
> it is more important than having one or two extra changes in queue, as these
> relationships will serve us at other plains as well.
> 
> So our mission is indeed different... you are interested in rolling, while I
> am in creating ecosystem of people, which eventually will roll much faster.

I'm amused by your insistent efforts in trying to spin what I say and misinterpret my words.
I am interested in exactly the same thing as you are.  Practically though, you are not suggesting anything different than what exists today which is getting us today's results which neither you nor I are satisfied with.  I am trying to change the dynamics and test what works to get things in the direction we both want them to, you are saying 'this is the way things should be' and are not willing to try new things that may actually get us there.


> 
> > > 
> > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > The problem is that maintainers avoid closing.
> > > > > > > And that there are people who submitted patches without CC anyone
> > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > gone.
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > So a simple logic can be applied after we add metadata into tree:
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > 1. If no maintainer is CCed on change, close that change within
> > > > > > > short
> > > > > > > cycle
> > > > > > > (can be even a week).
> > > > > > > 2. Maintainer to close patches that have no interest in.
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > > >>> Maintainers can close patches that are no interest nor
> > > > > > > > >>> progress.
> > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > > >>> Alon
> > > > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > > 
> > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > vdsm-devel mailing list
> > > > > > > vdsm-devel at lists.fedorahosted.org
> > > > > > > https://lists.fedorahosted.org/mailman/listinfo/vdsm-devel
> > > > > > > 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > 
> > > 
> > 
>