[Users] Migration Failed

Neil nwilson123 at gmail.com
Mon Jan 13 10:37:04 UTC 2014


Good morning everyone,

Sorry to trouble you again, anyone have any ideas on what to try next?

Thank you so much,

Regards.

Neil Wilson.

On Fri, Jan 10, 2014 at 8:31 AM, Neil <nwilson123 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Dafna,
>
> Apologies for the late reply, I was out of my office yesterday.
>
> Just to get back to you on your questions.
>
> can you look at the vm dialogue and see what boot devices the vm has?
> Sorry I'm not sure where you want me to get this info from? Inside the
> ovirt GUI or on the VM itself.
> The VM has one 2TB LUN assigned. Then inside the VM this is the fstab
> parameters..
>
> [root at tux ~]# cat /etc/fstab
> /dev/VolGroup00/LogVol00 /                       ext3    defaults        1 0
> /dev/vda1             /boot                   ext3    defaults        1 0
> tmpfs                   /dev/shm                tmpfs   defaults        0 0
> devpts                  /dev/pts                devpts  gid=5,mode=620  0 0
> sysfs                   /sys                    sysfs   defaults        0 0
> proc                    /proc                   proc    defaults        0 0
> /dev/VolGroup00/LogVol01 swap                    swap    defaults        0 0
> /dev/VolGroup00/LogVol02 /homes                      xfs
> defaults,usrquota,grpquota        1 0
>
>
> can you write to the vm?
> Yes the machine is fully functioning, it's their main PDC and hosts
> all of their files.
>
>
> can you please dump the vm xml from libvirt? (it's one of the commands
> that you have in virsh)
>
> Below is the xml
>
> <domain type='kvm' id='7'>
>   <name>tux</name>
>   <uuid>2736197b-6dc3-4155-9a29-9306ca64881d</uuid>
>   <memory unit='KiB'>8388608</memory>
>   <currentMemory unit='KiB'>8388608</currentMemory>
>   <vcpu placement='static'>4</vcpu>
>   <cputune>
>     <shares>1020</shares>
>   </cputune>
>   <sysinfo type='smbios'>
>     <system>
>       <entry name='manufacturer'>oVirt</entry>
>       <entry name='product'>oVirt Node</entry>
>       <entry name='version'>6-4.el6.centos.10</entry>
>       <entry name='serial'>4C4C4544-0038-5310-8050-C6C04F34354A</entry>
>       <entry name='uuid'>2736197b-6dc3-4155-9a29-9306ca64881d</entry>
>     </system>
>   </sysinfo>
>   <os>
>     <type arch='x86_64' machine='rhel6.4.0'>hvm</type>
>     <smbios mode='sysinfo'/>
>   </os>
>   <features>
>     <acpi/>
>   </features>
>   <cpu mode='custom' match='exact'>
>     <model fallback='allow'>Westmere</model>
>     <topology sockets='1' cores='4' threads='1'/>
>   </cpu>
>   <clock offset='variable' adjustment='0' basis='utc'>
>     <timer name='rtc' tickpolicy='catchup'/>
>   </clock>
>   <on_poweroff>destroy</on_poweroff>
>   <on_reboot>restart</on_reboot>
>   <on_crash>destroy</on_crash>
>   <devices>
>     <emulator>/usr/libexec/qemu-kvm</emulator>
>     <disk type='file' device='cdrom'>
>       <driver name='qemu' type='raw'/>
>       <source startupPolicy='optional'/>
>       <target dev='hdc' bus='ide'/>
>       <readonly/>
>       <serial></serial>
>       <alias name='ide0-1-0'/>
>       <address type='drive' controller='0' bus='1' target='0' unit='0'/>
>     </disk>
>     <disk type='block' device='disk' snapshot='no'>
>       <driver name='qemu' type='raw' cache='none' error_policy='stop'
> io='native'/>
>       <source dev='/rhev/data-center/28adaf38-a4f6-11e1-a859-cb68949043e4/0e6991ae-6238-4c61-96d2-ca8fed35161e/images/fd1a562a-3ba5-4ddb-a643-37912a6ae86f/f747ba2b-98e1-47f5-805b-6bb173bfd6ff'/>
>       <target dev='vda' bus='virtio'/>
>       <serial>fd1a562a-3ba5-4ddb-a643-37912a6ae86f</serial>
>       <boot order='1'/>
>       <alias name='virtio-disk0'/>
>       <address type='pci' domain='0x0000' bus='0x00' slot='0x05'
> function='0x0'/>
>     </disk>
>     <controller type='ide' index='0'>
>       <alias name='ide0'/>
>       <address type='pci' domain='0x0000' bus='0x00' slot='0x01'
> function='0x1'/>
>     </controller>
>     <controller type='virtio-serial' index='0'>
>       <alias name='virtio-serial0'/>
>       <address type='pci' domain='0x0000' bus='0x00' slot='0x04'
> function='0x0'/>
>     </controller>
>     <controller type='usb' index='0'>
>       <alias name='usb0'/>
>       <address type='pci' domain='0x0000' bus='0x00' slot='0x01'
> function='0x2'/>
>     </controller>
>     <interface type='bridge'>
>       <mac address='00:1a:4a:a8:7a:00'/>
>       <source bridge='ovirtmgmt'/>
>       <target dev='vnet5'/>
>       <model type='virtio'/>
>       <filterref filter='vdsm-no-mac-spoofing'/>
>       <link state='up'/>
>       <alias name='net0'/>
>       <address type='pci' domain='0x0000' bus='0x00' slot='0x03'
> function='0x0'/>
>     </interface>
>     <channel type='unix'>
>       <source mode='bind'
> path='/var/lib/libvirt/qemu/channels/tux.com.redhat.rhevm.vdsm'/>
>       <target type='virtio' name='com.redhat.rhevm.vdsm'/>
>       <alias name='channel0'/>
>       <address type='virtio-serial' controller='0' bus='0' port='1'/>
>     </channel>
>     <channel type='unix'>
>       <source mode='bind'
> path='/var/lib/libvirt/qemu/channels/tux.org.qemu.guest_agent.0'/>
>       <target type='virtio' name='org.qemu.guest_agent.0'/>
>       <alias name='channel1'/>
>       <address type='virtio-serial' controller='0' bus='0' port='2'/>
>     </channel>
>     <channel type='spicevmc'>
>       <target type='virtio' name='com.redhat.spice.0'/>
>       <alias name='channel2'/>
>       <address type='virtio-serial' controller='0' bus='0' port='3'/>
>     </channel>
>     <input type='mouse' bus='ps2'/>
>     <graphics type='spice' port='5912' tlsPort='5913' autoport='yes'
> listen='0' keymap='en-us' passwdValidTo='2013-09-20T07:56:54'
> connected='disconnect'>
>       <listen type='address' address='0'/>
>       <channel name='main' mode='secure'/>
>       <channel name='display' mode='secure'/>
>       <channel name='inputs' mode='secure'/>
>       <channel name='cursor' mode='secure'/>
>       <channel name='playback' mode='secure'/>
>       <channel name='record' mode='secure'/>
>       <channel name='smartcard' mode='secure'/>
>       <channel name='usbredir' mode='secure'/>
>     </graphics>
>     <video>
>       <model type='qxl' ram='65536' vram='65536' heads='1'/>
>       <alias name='video0'/>
>       <address type='pci' domain='0x0000' bus='0x00' slot='0x02'
> function='0x0'/>
>     </video>
>     <memballoon model='virtio'>
>       <alias name='balloon0'/>
>       <address type='pci' domain='0x0000' bus='0x00' slot='0x06'
> function='0x0'/>
>     </memballoon>
>   </devices>
>   <seclabel type='none'/>
> </domain>
>
> Thank you very much for your help.
>
> Regards.
>
> Neil Wilson.
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 8, 2014 at 4:55 PM, Dafna Ron <dron at redhat.com> wrote:
>> Hi Neil,
>>
>> the error in the log suggests that the vm is missing a disk...
>> can you look at the vm dialogue and see what boot devices the vm has?
>> can you write to the vm?
>> can you please dump the vm xml from libvirt? (it's one of the commands that
>> you have in virsh)
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Dafna
>>
>>
>>
>> On 01/08/2014 02:42 PM, Neil wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi guys,
>>>
>>> Apologies for the late reply.
>>>
>>> The VM (Tux) was created about 2 years ago, it was converted from a
>>> physical machine using Clonezilla. It's been migrated a number of
>>> times in the past, only now when trying to move it off node03 is it
>>> giving this error.
>>>
>>> I've looked for any attached images/cd's and found none unfortunately.
>>>
>>> Thank you so much for your assistance so far.
>>>
>>> Regards.
>>>
>>> Neil Wilson.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jan 8, 2014 at 12:23 PM, Dafna Ron <dron at redhat.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Thread-847747::INFO::2014-01-07
>>>> 14:30:32,353::logUtils::44::dispatcher::(wrapper) Run and protect:
>>>> inappropriateDevices(thiefId='63da7faa-f92a-4652-90f2-b6660a4fb7b3')
>>>> Thread-847747::INFO::2014-01-07
>>>> 14:30:32,354::logUtils::47::dispatcher::(wrapper) Run and protect:
>>>> inappropriateDevices, Return response: None
>>>>
>>>> Please check if the vm's were booted with a cd...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> bject at 0x7fb1f00cbbd0>> log:<logUtils.SimpleLogAdapter instance at
>>>> 0x7fb1f00be7e8> name:hdc networkDev:False path: readonly:True reqsize:0
>>>> serial: truesize:0 *type:cdrom* volExtensionChunk:1024
>>>> watermarkLimit:536870912
>>>>
>>>> Traceback (most recent call last):
>>>>    File "/usr/share/vdsm/clientIF.py", line 356, in teardownVolumePath
>>>>      res = self.irs.teardownImage(drive['domainID'],
>>>>    File "/usr/share/vdsm/vm.py", line 1386, in __getitem__
>>>>      raise KeyError(key)
>>>> KeyError: 'domainID'
>>>> Thread-847747::WARNING::2014-01-07
>>>> 14:30:32,351::clientIF::362::vds::(teardownVolumePath) Drive is not a
>>>> vdsm
>>>> image: VOLWM_CHUNK_MB:1024 VOLWM_CHUNK_REPLICATE_MULT:2 VOLWM_FREE_PCT:50
>>>> _blockDev:True _checkIoTuneCategories:<bound method D
>>>> rive._checkIoTuneCategories of <vm.Drive object at 0x7fb1f00cbc10>>
>>>> _customize:<bound method Drive._customize of <vm.Drive object at
>>>> 0x7fb1f00cbc10>> _deviceXML:<disk device="disk" snapshot="no"
>>>> type="block">
>>>>        <driver cache="none" error_policy="stop" io="native" name="qemu"
>>>> type="raw"/>
>>>>        <source
>>>>
>>>> dev="/rhev/data-center/28adaf38-a4f6-11e1-a859-cb68949043e4/0e6991ae-6238-4c61-96d2-ca8fed35161e/images/9f16f896-1da3-4f9a-a305-ac9c4f51a482/e04c6600-abb9-4ebc-a9b3-77b6c536e258"/>
>>>>        <target bus="ide" dev="hda"/>
>>>> <serial>9f16f896-1da3-4f9a-a305-ac9c4f51a482</serial>
>>>>        <alias name="ide0-0-0"/>
>>>>        <address bus="0" controller="0" target="0" type="drive" unit="0"/>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 01/08/2014 06:28 AM, Neil wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Dafna,
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks for the reply.
>>>>>
>>>>> Attached is the log from the source server (node03).
>>>>>
>>>>> I'll reply to your other questions as soon as I'm back in the office
>>>>> this afternoon, have to run off to a meeting.
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards.
>>>>>
>>>>> Neil Wilson.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Jan 7, 2014 at 8:13 PM, Dafna Ron <dron at redhat.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ok... several things :)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1. for migration we need to see vdsm logs from both src and dst.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2. Is it possible that the vm has an iso attached? because I see that
>>>>>> you
>>>>>> are having problems with the iso domain:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2014-01-07 14:26:27,714 ERROR
>>>>>> [org.ovirt.engine.core.vdsbroker.irsbroker.IrsBrokerCommand]
>>>>>> (pool-6-thread-48) Domain e9ab725d-69c1-4a59-b225-b995d095c289:bla-iso
>>>>>> was
>>>>>> reported with error code 358
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thread-1165153::DEBUG::2014-01-07
>>>>>> 13:39:42,460::libvirtconnection::108::libvirtconnection::(wrapper)
>>>>>> Unknown
>>>>>> libvirterror: ecode: 42 edom: 10 level: 2 message: Domain not found: no
>>>>>> domain with matching uuid '63da7faa-f92a-4652-90f2-b6660a4fb7b3'
>>>>>>
>>>>>> hread-19::ERROR::2014-01-07
>>>>>> 13:01:02,621::sdc::143::Storage.StorageDomainCache::(_findDomain)
>>>>>> domain
>>>>>> e9ab725d-69c1-4a59-b225-b995d095c289 not found
>>>>>> Traceback (most recent call last):
>>>>>>     File "/usr/share/vdsm/storage/sdc.py", line 141, in _findDomain
>>>>>>       dom = findMethod(sdUUID)
>>>>>>     File "/usr/share/vdsm/storage/sdc.py", line 171, in
>>>>>> _findUnfetchedDomain
>>>>>>       raise se.StorageDomainDoesNotExist(sdUUID)
>>>>>> StorageDomainDoesNotExist: Storage domain does not exist:
>>>>>> (u'e9ab725d-69c1-4a59-b225-b995d095c289',)
>>>>>> Thread-19::ERROR::2014-01-07
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 13:01:02,622::domainMonitor::225::Storage.DomainMonitorThread::(_monitorDomain)
>>>>>> Error while collecting domain e9ab725d-69c1-4a59-b225-b995d095c289
>>>>>> monitoring information
>>>>>> Traceback (most recent call last):
>>>>>>     File "/usr/share/vdsm/storage/domainMonitor.py", line 190, in
>>>>>> _monitorDomain
>>>>>>       self.domain = sdCache.produce(self.sdUUID)
>>>>>>     File "/usr/share/vdsm/storage/sdc.py", line 98, in produce
>>>>>>       domain.getRealDomain()
>>>>>>     File "/usr/share/vdsm/storage/sdc.py", line 52, in getRealDomain
>>>>>>       return self._cache._realProduce(self._sdUUID)
>>>>>>     File "/usr/share/vdsm/storage/sdc.py", line 122, in _realProduce
>>>>>>       domain = self._findDomain(sdUUID)
>>>>>>     File "/usr/share/vdsm/storage/sdc.py", line 141, in _findDomain
>>>>>>       dom = findMethod(sdUUID)
>>>>>>     File "/usr/share/vdsm/storage/sdc.py", line 171, in
>>>>>> _findUnfetchedDomain
>>>>>>       raise se.StorageDomainDoesNotExist(sdUUID)
>>>>>> StorageDomainDoesNotExist: Storage domain does not exist:
>>>>>> (u'e9ab725d-69c1-4a59-b225-b995d095c289',)
>>>>>> Dummy-29013::DEBUG::2014-01-07
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 13:01:03,507::storage_mailbox::733::Storage.Misc.excCmd::(_checkForMail)
>>>>>> 'dd
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> if=/rhev/data-center/28adaf38-a4f6-11e1-a859-cb68949043e4/mastersd/dom_md/inbox
>>>>>> iflag=direct,fullblock count=1 bs=1024000' (cwd N
>>>>>> one)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 3. The migration fails with libvirt error but we need the trace from
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> second log:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thread-1165153::DEBUG::2014-01-07
>>>>>> 13:39:42,451::sampling::292::vm.Vm::(stop)
>>>>>> vmId=`63da7faa-f92a-4652-90f2-b6660a4fb7b3`::Stop statistics collection
>>>>>> Thread-1163583::DEBUG::2014-01-07
>>>>>> 13:39:42,452::sampling::323::vm.Vm::(run)
>>>>>> vmId=`63da7faa-f92a-4652-90f2-b6660a4fb7b3`::Stats thread finished
>>>>>> Thread-1165153::DEBUG::2014-01-07
>>>>>> 13:39:42,460::libvirtconnection::108::libvirtconnection::(wrapper)
>>>>>> Unknown
>>>>>> libvirterror: ecode: 42 edom: 10 level: 2 message: Domain not found: no
>>>>>> domain with matching uuid '63da7faa-f92a-4652-90f2-b6660
>>>>>> a4fb7b3'
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 4. But I am worried about this and would more info about this vm...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thread-247::ERROR::2014-01-07
>>>>>> 15:35:14,868::sampling::355::vm.Vm::(collect)
>>>>>> vmId=`63da7faa-f92a-4652-90f2-b6660a4fb7b3`::Stats function failed:
>>>>>> <AdvancedStatsFunction _highWrite at 0x2ce0998>
>>>>>> Traceback (most recent call last):
>>>>>>     File "/usr/share/vdsm/sampling.py", line 351, in collect
>>>>>>       statsFunction()
>>>>>>     File "/usr/share/vdsm/sampling.py", line 226, in __call__
>>>>>>       retValue = self._function(*args, **kwargs)
>>>>>>     File "/usr/share/vdsm/vm.py", line 509, in _highWrite
>>>>>>       if not vmDrive.blockDev or vmDrive.format != 'cow':
>>>>>> AttributeError: 'Drive' object has no attribute 'format'
>>>>>>
>>>>>> How did you create this vm? was it from the UI? was it from a script?
>>>>>> what
>>>>>> are the parameters you used?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Dafna
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 01/07/2014 04:34 PM, Neil wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi Elad,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks for assisting me, yes the same condition exists, if I try to
>>>>>>> migrate Tux it says "The VM Tux is being migrated".
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Below are the details requested.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> [root at node01 ~]# virsh -r list
>>>>>>>     Id    Name                           State
>>>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>     1     adam                           running
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> [root at node01 ~]# pgrep qemu
>>>>>>> 11232
>>>>>>> [root at node01 ~]# vdsClient -s 0 list table
>>>>>>> 63da7faa-f92a-4652-90f2-b6660a4fb7b3  11232  adam                 Up
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> [root at node03 ~]# virsh -r list
>>>>>>>     Id    Name                           State
>>>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>     7     tux                            running
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> [root at node03 ~]# pgrep qemu
>>>>>>> 32333
>>>>>>> [root at node03 ~]# vdsClient -s 0 list table
>>>>>>> 2736197b-6dc3-4155-9a29-9306ca64881d  32333  tux                  Up
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Regards.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Neil Wilson.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Tue, Jan 7, 2014 at 4:43 PM, Elad Ben Aharon <ebenahar at redhat.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Is it still in the same condition?
>>>>>>>> If yes, please add the outputs from both hosts for:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> #virsh -r list
>>>>>>>> #pgrep qemu
>>>>>>>> #vdsClient -s 0 list table     (or 'vdsClient 0 list table' if you
>>>>>>>> are
>>>>>>>> working in insecure mode)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thnaks,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Elad Ben Aharon
>>>>>>>> RHEV-QE storage team
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>>> From: "Neil" <nwilson123 at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>> To: users at ovirt.org
>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, January 7, 2014 4:21:43 PM
>>>>>>>> Subject: [Users] Migration Failed
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi guys,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I've tried to migrate a VM from one host(node03) to another(node01),
>>>>>>>> and it failed to migrate, and the VM(tux) remained on the original
>>>>>>>> host. I've now tried to migrate the same VM again, and it picks up
>>>>>>>> that the previous migration is still in progress and refuses to
>>>>>>>> migrate.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I've checked for the KVM process on each of the hosts and the VM is
>>>>>>>> definitely still running on node03 so there doesn't appear to be any
>>>>>>>> chance of the VM trying to run on both hosts (which I've had before
>>>>>>>> which is very scary).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> These are my versions... and attached are my engine.log and my
>>>>>>>> vdsm.log
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Centos 6.5
>>>>>>>> ovirt-iso-uploader-3.3.1-1.el6.noarch
>>>>>>>> ovirt-host-deploy-1.1.2-1.el6.noarch
>>>>>>>> ovirt-release-el6-9-1.noarch
>>>>>>>> ovirt-engine-setup-3.3.1-2.el6.noarch
>>>>>>>> ovirt-engine-3.3.1-2.el6.noarch
>>>>>>>> ovirt-host-deploy-java-1.1.2-1.el6.noarch
>>>>>>>> ovirt-image-uploader-3.3.1-1.el6.noarch
>>>>>>>> ovirt-engine-dbscripts-3.3.1-2.el6.noarch
>>>>>>>> ovirt-engine-cli-3.3.0.6-1.el6.noarch
>>>>>>>> ovirt-engine-websocket-proxy-3.3.1-2.el6.noarch
>>>>>>>> ovirt-engine-userportal-3.3.1-2.el6.noarch
>>>>>>>> ovirt-log-collector-3.3.1-1.el6.noarch
>>>>>>>> ovirt-engine-tools-3.3.1-2.el6.noarch
>>>>>>>> ovirt-engine-lib-3.3.1-2.el6.noarch
>>>>>>>> ovirt-engine-webadmin-portal-3.3.1-2.el6.noarch
>>>>>>>> ovirt-engine-backend-3.3.1-2.el6.noarch
>>>>>>>> ovirt-engine-sdk-python-3.3.0.8-1.el6.noarch
>>>>>>>> ovirt-engine-restapi-3.3.1-2.el6.noarch
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> vdsm-python-4.13.0-11.el6.x86_64
>>>>>>>> vdsm-cli-4.13.0-11.el6.noarch
>>>>>>>> vdsm-xmlrpc-4.13.0-11.el6.noarch
>>>>>>>> vdsm-4.13.0-11.el6.x86_64
>>>>>>>> vdsm-python-cpopen-4.13.0-11.el6.x86_64
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I've had a few issues with this particular installation in the past,
>>>>>>>> as it's from a very old pre release of ovirt, then upgrading to the
>>>>>>>> dreyou repo, then finally moving to the official Centos ovirt repo.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks, any help is greatly appreciated.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Regards.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Neil Wilson.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Users mailing list
>>>>>>>> Users at ovirt.org
>>>>>>>> http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/users
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Users mailing list
>>>>>>> Users at ovirt.org
>>>>>>> http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/users
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Dafna Ron
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Dafna Ron
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Dafna Ron



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