# Designing the download section # In this email, I will explain the the mockup for the download page and the ideas that went into making the design. First, a link to the mockup: http://people.redhat.com/glesage/oVirt/website/mockup-1/download.html Remember, this is a work in progress, and everything is open for discussion... and also subject to change. As for this particular mockup, while the text is somewhat accurate, it mainly exists to convey concepts for this page. ## Background ## Goal: To make it easy for anyone visiting oVirt.org to download and use oVirt. By "use", I mean *both* trying oVirt on existing hardware as well as installing it to a hard drive. To accomplish this, we need to: * make it _extremely_ clear how to download oVirt * provide a quick getting started guide to walk through a few steps * inform the user what sort of hardware is expected ### Reasons to focus on an all-in-one "appliance" model ### Having one favored, easy-to-use download allows us to: * Eliminate the risks of things going wrong when a user sets up oVirt on their own system. * Isolate oVirt from the distribution kernel and subsystem changes in distributions which may break functionality. * Provide the latest and greatest features to oVirt users independent of waiting for distributions to play catch-up. * Test a known stack of software to ensure that oVirt works as intended. Possible downsides of focusing on this all-in-one approach: 1) "It doesn't run on _my_ distribution" Answer: oVirt + a very basic version of Fedora is a virtualization platform that is just enough to run hosts inside of. Sitting on top of a distro (even a very stripped-down one) and the fact that it's running on top of the Linux kernel are both basically implementation details. Any operating system, including all the different flavors of Linux, can easily run inside — oVirt plays nicely with whatever anyone wants to run. Furthermore, it doesn't make sense to run a mail server, web server, or any other service parallel to oVirt. Those services should be running inside of hosts running on top of oVirt. As a result, it doesn't matter what distribution oVirt runs on top of. 2) The all-in-one image isn't development-focused (but that's okay) Answer: We need a user-focused website, especially for the download page. It should be as easy as possible to download and set up oVirt. Right now, we're assuming that people have some sort of system knowledge of maintaining a Linux server. The download page, for this reason, should not include how to build from source. (That belongs on the website, sure, but in whatever we call the "develop" section... not in "download") It will still obviously be possible to develop for and run oVirt on any distribution of choice. It shouldn't be the default (for reasons outlined above), but it should be possible. ## Design of the page ## At the very top, you see a summary, and a big button which makes it obvious that oVirt can be downloaded. Clicking the button will immediately download the ISO. There's a size listed, so people know how long it will take (roughly), and a hash (either MD5 or SHA1, but not both) so that users can verify the download was successful. Next, the page is split into two columns. As "what should I do with this file?" is so very important, it has a prominent position on the page. At the end, there's a paragraph about consulting documentation for more information, as well as some quick links to a few commonly used documents (in this case, I think it would be neat to see how people are using oVirt, for the common use cases). Hardware requirements / suggestions are very important, so they're at the top too. Regardless of having an easy-to-install image, many people will want to install oVirt on their distribution of choice. We do want to make things as easy as possible, but we should provide a path for advanced users to install oVirt on Debian, Fedora (existing installation), openSUSE, Ubuntu, and other distributions. Therefore, I made an "Alternate installation methods" section on the page. Provided we get permission for using the logos in this way (and I'm pretty sure we can), it provides a simple, clear approach for others who want to download oVirt for their existing machines. ## In closing ## Thanks for taking the time to read this! I'm looking forward to what you have to say about the ideas expressed in the mockup. Garrett
Hi Garrett, On 08/22/2012 09:17 PM, Garrett LeSage wrote:
First, a link to the mockup: http://people.redhat.com/glesage/oVirt/website/mockup-1/download.html
I think it looks nice! It does raise a few questions, though. <snip>
### Reasons to focus on an all-in-one "appliance" model ###
Having one favored, easy-to-use download allows us to:
* Eliminate the risks of things going wrong when a user sets up oVirt on their own system. * Isolate oVirt from the distribution kernel and subsystem changes in distributions which may break functionality. * Provide the latest and greatest features to oVirt users independent of waiting for distributions to play catch-up. * Test a known stack of software to ensure that oVirt works as intended.
In the mock-up there's a download link for "oVirt live image" - you indicate here it's the all-in-one version, downloadable as a runnable ISO liveCD. You also suggest that it should be possible to install oVirt from that image. My question is: do we have this? And if not, how much engineering work would be required to create an image which allows you to run all-in-one from a LiveCD, and also enable you to install both Engine and Node? And how would that work? Specifically, how will it work with storage domains, etc? I realise you might not have the answers - but I don't think we have an all-in-one DVD/CD image right now, never mind one which will handle all of the finnicky things you need to do when installing an engine and setting up nodes. In any case, the design looks great! I just want to make sure we're designing something we can deliver. Thanks, Dave. -- Dave Neary Community Action and Impact Open Source and Standards, Red Hat Ph: +33 9 50 71 55 62 / Cell: +33 6 77 01 92 13
On 08/24/2012 08:19 AM, Dave Neary wrote:
Hi Garrett,
On 08/22/2012 09:17 PM, Garrett LeSage wrote:
First, a link to the mockup: http://people.redhat.com/glesage/oVirt/website/mockup-1/download.html
I think it looks nice! It does raise a few questions, though.
+1 this looks great
<snip>
### Reasons to focus on an all-in-one "appliance" model ###
Having one favored, easy-to-use download allows us to:
* Eliminate the risks of things going wrong when a user sets up oVirt on their own system. * Isolate oVirt from the distribution kernel and subsystem changes in distributions which may break functionality. * Provide the latest and greatest features to oVirt users independent of waiting for distributions to play catch-up. * Test a known stack of software to ensure that oVirt works as intended.
In the mock-up there's a download link for "oVirt live image" - you indicate here it's the all-in-one version, downloadable as a runnable ISO liveCD. You also suggest that it should be possible to install oVirt from that image.
My question is: do we have this? And if not, how much engineering work would be required to create an image which allows you to run all-in-one from a LiveCD, and also enable you to install both Engine and Node? And how would that work? Specifically, how will it work with storage domains, etc?
I've played around with creating an all in one live image. All the needed packages on a livecd image, I can run engine-setup from the live environment, and it looks like I can configure everything. I don't have it all nailed down yet, and I'm finding that after making a certain number of changes, packages downloaded, etc., in the live environment, I'm running out of space. I'm not sure if there's a way to increase the available space, like, if you boost the RAM, will the livecd automatically provide you with more space? After I do a bit more fiddling, I'll blog about it. Combined with the vdsm-faqemu package and a couple config file tweaks, you would be able to run it all in a VM (do everything, all the setup and storage config, etc., just short of actually running a VM)
I realise you might not have the answers - but I don't think we have an all-in-one DVD/CD image right now, never mind one which will handle all of the finnicky things you need to do when installing an engine and setting up nodes.
In any case, the design looks great!
Again, +1 -- I'm stoked about these new designs. Jason I just want to make sure we're
designing something we can deliver.
Thanks, Dave.
-- @jasonbrooks
Thanks! I'm glad you like it, and that you and Dave both noticed the implications of the design for the “Download” page. For oVirt to be really successful, it needs to be super-simple for installation and set up. We have to be user-focused, from one end to the other — this includes the website, delivery method (one ISO for CDs/USB sticks), and installation (as simple as possible). Of course, oVirt itself, when it's up and running also needs to be usable too, but I think the RHEV folks put some time into that already, so I'm concentrating on the rest for now. If we can't deliver a really polished all-in-one, installable ISO, then we should spend effort to try to make it happen soon. (And, if it's not feasible to do this in the immediate future, then I can also work on an interim design that bridges the gap a bit too.) I'm really glad to hear that it sounds like this will be possible. Garrett
Hi all, On 08/24/2012 06:21 PM, Garrett LeSage wrote:
Thanks! I'm glad you like it, and that you and Dave both noticed the implications of the design for the “Download” page.
Can I revive this thread post-vacations, please? Garrett is suggesting modifying the way we package oVirt, which affects a lot more than just the web page. We really need to have more input into the feasibility, desirability and potential time-scale for the changes he's proposing. Also, we're ready to dive deeper in the 2nd level pages on the site, focussed on new users, engaged users, and developers, and we'd like to ensure we're on the right track so far. In the absence of negative feedback we'll go ahead, in the absence of positive feedback we'll probably assume no-one's taken the time to look at the designs! I'm sure Garrett would appreciate an email if you don't have anything positive to say, just to let him know you like it (off-list, even, if you prefer).
For oVirt to be really successful, it needs to be super-simple for installation and set up. We have to be user-focused, from one end to the other — this includes the website, delivery method (one ISO for CDs/USB sticks), and installation (as simple as possible). Of course, oVirt itself, when it's up and running also needs to be usable too, but I think the RHEV folks put some time into that already, so I'm concentrating on the rest for now.
If we can't deliver a really polished all-in-one, installable ISO, then we should spend effort to try to make it happen soon. (And, if it's not feasible to do this in the immediate future, then I can also work on an interim design that bridges the gap a bit too.)
I'm really glad to hear that it sounds like this will be possible.
Thanks, Dave. -- Dave Neary Community Action and Impact Open Source and Standards, Red Hat Ph: +33 9 50 71 55 62 / Cell: +33 6 77 01 92 13
Hi, On 09/04/2012 01:08 PM, Dave Neary wrote:
Also, we're ready to dive deeper in the 2nd level pages on the site, focussed on new users, engaged users, and developers, and we'd like to ensure we're on the right track so far. In the absence of negative feedback we'll go ahead, in the absence of positive feedback we'll probably assume no-one's taken the time to look at the designs! I'm sure Garrett would appreciate an email if you don't have anything positive to say, just to let him know you like it (off-list, even, if you prefer).
Oops! I meant to say "even if you don't have anything negative to say". The current latest version of the front page is here: http://people.redhat.com/glesage/oVirt/website/mockup-1/ Cheers, Dave. -- Dave Neary Community Action and Impact Open Source and Standards, Red Hat Ph: +33 9 50 71 55 62 / Cell: +33 6 77 01 92 13
On 09/04/2012 02:08 PM, Dave Neary wrote:
Hi all,
On 08/24/2012 06:21 PM, Garrett LeSage wrote:
Thanks! I'm glad you like it, and that you and Dave both noticed the implications of the design for the “Download” page.
Can I revive this thread post-vacations, please?
Garrett is suggesting modifying the way we package oVirt, which affects a lot more than just the web page. We really need to have more input into the feasibility, desirability and potential time-scale for the changes he's proposing.
we need to have oVirt available as part of distros or as a repo for distros (fedora exists, i'm guessing ubuntu is next) the other approach we mentioned was a live-cd approach, which will indeed take time to plan and do (also need to decide if going for live-cd or live-usb - usb is read/write which will probably be much easier for our use case)
Also, we're ready to dive deeper in the 2nd level pages on the site, focussed on new users, engaged users, and developers, and we'd like to ensure we're on the right track so far. In the absence of negative feedback we'll go ahead, in the absence of positive feedback we'll probably assume no-one's taken the time to look at the designs! I'm sure Garrett would appreciate an email if you don't have anything positive to say, just to let him know you like it (off-list, even, if you prefer).
For oVirt to be really successful, it needs to be super-simple for installation and set up. We have to be user-focused, from one end to the other — this includes the website, delivery method (one ISO for CDs/USB sticks), and installation (as simple as possible). Of course, oVirt itself, when it's up and running also needs to be usable too, but I think the RHEV folks put some time into that already, so I'm concentrating on the rest for now.
If we can't deliver a really polished all-in-one, installable ISO, then we should spend effort to try to make it happen soon. (And, if it's not feasible to do this in the immediate future, then I can also work on an interim design that bridges the gap a bit too.)
I'm really glad to hear that it sounds like this will be possible.
Thanks, Dave.
On 09/04/2012 10:25 PM, Itamar Heim wrote:
On 09/04/2012 02:08 PM, Dave Neary wrote:
Hi all,
On 08/24/2012 06:21 PM, Garrett LeSage wrote:
Thanks! I'm glad you like it, and that you and Dave both noticed the implications of the design for the “Download” page.
Can I revive this thread post-vacations, please?
Garrett is suggesting modifying the way we package oVirt, which affects a lot more than just the web page. We really need to have more input into the feasibility, desirability and potential time-scale for the changes he's proposing.
we need to have oVirt available as part of distros or as a repo for distros (fedora exists, i'm guessing ubuntu is next) the other approach we mentioned was a live-cd approach, which will indeed take time to plan and do (also need to decide if going for live-cd or live-usb - usb is read/write which will probably be much easier for our use case)
I'm planing to take both tasks and put the needed time into it: -live cd on a usb stick - 1st priority and easier task -packaging for debian/ubunto - the more complex one since lots of our packaging code relays on fedora/rhel distros, i have seen some work was started on the subject. [1] [1] http://wiki.ovirt.org/wiki/Ovirt_build_on_debian/ubuntu
Also, we're ready to dive deeper in the 2nd level pages on the site, focussed on new users, engaged users, and developers, and we'd like to ensure we're on the right track so far. In the absence of negative feedback we'll go ahead, in the absence of positive feedback we'll probably assume no-one's taken the time to look at the designs! I'm sure Garrett would appreciate an email if you don't have anything positive to say, just to let him know you like it (off-list, even, if you prefer).
For oVirt to be really successful, it needs to be super-simple for installation and set up. We have to be user-focused, from one end to the other — this includes the website, delivery method (one ISO for CDs/USB sticks), and installation (as simple as possible). Of course, oVirt itself, when it's up and running also needs to be usable too, but I think the RHEV folks put some time into that already, so I'm concentrating on the rest for now.
If we can't deliver a really polished all-in-one, installable ISO, then we should spend effort to try to make it happen soon. (And, if it's not feasible to do this in the immediate future, then I can also work on an interim design that bridges the gap a bit too.)
I'm really glad to hear that it sounds like this will be possible.
Thanks, Dave.
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participants (5)
-
Dave Neary -
Garrett LeSage -
Itamar Heim -
Jason Brooks -
Moran Goldboim