7:12 p.m.
------=_Part_1742_408268.1370275951382
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Juan,=20
thanks for your info, I'll try to test FreeNAS with compression. Do you use=
it with iSCSI or NFS?=20
Jose=20
----- Original Message -----
From: "Juan Jose" <jj197005(a)gmail.com>=20
To: suporte(a)logicworks.pt, users(a)ovirt.org=20
Sent: Segunda-feira, 3 de Junho de 2013 13:37:21=20
Subject: Re: [Users] deduplication=20
Hello Jose,=20
We also have FreeNAS working in our infraestructure, with about 3 TB and ZF=
S. Some of the pools has compression enabled and you can save space with it=
. We have this FreeNAS connected to a hypervisor Xen and it works very well=
and it's stable and sure. We have nine virtual servers some wirtualized an=
d other paravirtualized, and some Windows Server machine all about 2 years =
in production without any problem. My idea is connect this infrastructure w=
ith oVirt wo be able to have some resources for test VMs in that. Only want=
ed to share as another FreeNas success experience.=20
Juanjo.=20
On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 12:33 PM, < suporte(a)logicworks.pt > wrote:=20
Thanks a lot Karli, you make my mind clear about deduplication, once again =
we cannot have the best of both worlds.=20
I'll try FreeNAS despite my poor knowledge on FreeBSD. Openfiler, running o=
n Linux, has no better performance but supports DRDB.=20
Jose=20
From: "Karli Sj=C3=B6berg" < Karli.Sjoberg(a)slu.se >=20
To: suporte(a)logicworks.pt=20
Cc: "Jiri Belka" < jbelka(a)redhat.com >, users(a)ovirt.org=20
Sent: Sexta-feira, 31 de Maio de 2013 10:45:41=20
Subject: Re: [Users] deduplication=20
fre 2013-05-31 klockan 09:50 +0100 skrev suporte(a)logicworks.pt :=20
<blockquote So, we can say that dedup has more
disadvantages than advantages.=20
For a primary system; most definitely, yes.=20
But for a backup system, that has tons of RAM and SSD's for cache, and you =
have lots of virtual machines that are based off of the template, or are ve=
ry much the same, then you have a real use-case. I=C2=B4m active at the Fre=
eBSD forums where one person reports storing 150TB of data in only 30TB of =
physical disk. The best practice of scrubbing is once a week on "enterprise=
" systems, though he is only able to do it once a month, because that=C2=B4=
s how long it takes for a scrub to complete in that system. So you=C2=B4ve =
got to choose performance or savings, you can=C2=B4t have both.=20
<blockquote
And what about dedup of Netapp?=20
</blockquote
Much better implementation, in my opinion. You are able schedule dedup-runs=
to go at night so your user=C2=B4s performance isn=C2=B4t impacted, and yo=
u get the savings. The question is if you value the savings enough to take =
on price-tag that is NetApp. Or just build your own FreeBSD/ZFS server with=
compression enabled and buy in standard HDD's from anywhere... We did;)=20
/Karli=20
<blockquote
Jose=20
</blockquote
<blockquote From: "Karli Sj=C3=B6berg"
< Karli.Sjoberg(a)slu.se >=20
To: suporte(a)logicworks.pt=20
Cc: "Jiri Belka" < jbelka(a)redhat.com >, users(a)ovirt.org=20
Sent: Quinta-feira, 30 de Maio de 2013 8:33:19=20
Subject: Re: [Users] deduplication=20
ons 2013-05-29 klockan 09:59 +0100 skrev suporte(a)logicworks.pt :=20
<blockquote Absolutely agree with you, planning
is the best thing to do, but normally p=
eople want a plug'n'play system with all included, because there is not muc=
h time to think and planning, and there are many companies that know how to=
take advantage of this people characteristics.=20
Any way, I think another solution for dedup is FreeNAS using ZFS.=20
</blockquote
FreeNAS is just FreeBSD with a fancy web-ui ontop, so it=C2=B4s neither mor=
e or less of ZFS than you would have otherwise, And regarding dedup in ZFS;=
Just don=C2=B4t, it=C2=B4s not worth it! It=C2=B4s said that it may increa=
se performance when you have a very suitable usecase, e.g. everything exact=
ly the same over and over. What=C2=B4s not said is that scrubbing and resil=
vering slows down to a snail (from hundreds of MB/s, or GB if your system i=
s large enough, down to less than 10), just from dedup. Also deleting snaps=
hots of datasets that have(or have had) dedup on can kill the entire system=
, and when I say kill, I mean really fubar. Been there, regretted that... N=
ow, compression on the other hand, you get basically for free and gives dec=
ent savings, I highly recommend that.=20
/Karli=20
<blockquote
Jose=20
From: "Jiri Belka" < jbelka(a)redhat.com >=20
To: suporte(a)logicworks.pt=20
Cc: users(a)ovirt.org=20
Sent: Quarta-feira, 29 de Maio de 2013 7:33:10=20
Subject: Re: [Users] deduplication=20
On Tue, 28 May 2013 14:29:05 +0100 (WEST)=20
suporte(a)logicworks.pt wrote:=20
=09--=20
Med V=C3=A4nliga H=C3=A4lsningar=20
---------------------------------------------------------------------------=
----=20
Karli Sj=C3=B6berg=20
Swedish University of Agricultural Sciences=20
Box 7079 (Visiting Address Kron=C3=A5sv=C3=A4gen 8)=20
S-750 07 Uppsala, Sweden=20
Phone: +46-(0)18-67 15 66=20
karli.sjoberg(a)slu.se=20
</blockquote
<blockquote
</blockquote
=09--=20
Med V=C3=A4nliga H=C3=A4lsningar=20
---------------------------------------------------------------------------=
----=20
Karli Sj=C3=B6berg=20
Swedish University of Agricultural Sciences=20
Box 7079 (Visiting Address Kron=C3=A5sv=C3=A4gen 8)=20
S-750 07 Uppsala, Sweden=20
Phone: +46-(0)18-67 15 66=20
karli.sjoberg(a)slu.se=20
_______________________________________________=20
Users mailing list=20
Users(a)ovirt.org=20
http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/users=20
</blockquote
------=_Part_1742_408268.1370275951382
Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<html><head><style type=3D'text/css'>p { margin: 0;
}</style></head><body><=
div style=3D'font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif; font-size: 10pt; colo=
r: #000000'>Hi Juan,<br><br>thanks for your info, I'll try to test
FreeNAS =
with compression. Do you use it with iSCSI or
NFS?<br><br>Jose<br><br><hr i=
d=3D"zwchr"><div style=3D"color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-weight: normal;
font-st=
yle: normal; text-decoration: none; font-family: Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif=
; font-size: 12pt;"><b>From: </b>"Juan Jose"
&lt;jj197005(a)gmail.com&gt;<br>=
<b>To: </b>suporte(a)logicworks.pt, users(a)ovirt.org<br><b>Sent:
</b>Segunda-f=
eira, 3 de Junho de 2013 13:37:21<br><b>Subject: </b>Re: [Users]
deduplicat=
ion<br><br><div dir=3D"ltr"><br><div>Hello
Jose,</div><div><br></div><div>W=
e also have FreeNAS working in our infraestructure, with about 3 TB and ZFS=
. Some of the pools has compression enabled and you can save space with it.=
We have this FreeNAS connected to a hypervisor Xen and it works very well =
and it's stable and sure. We have nine virtual servers some wirtualized and=
other paravirtualized, and some Windows Server machine all about 2 years i=
n production without any problem. My idea is connect this infrastructure wi=
th oVirt wo be able to have some resources for test VMs in that. Only wante=
d to share as another FreeNas success experience.</div
<div><br></div><div>Juanjo.</div></div><div
class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><br><=
div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 12:33 PM, <span
dir=3D"l=
tr"><<a href=3D"mailto:suporte@logicworks.pt"
target=3D"_blank">suporte@=
logicworks.pt</a>></span> wrote:<br
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt
0.8ex; borde=
r-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;"><div><div
style=
=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: arial,helvetica,sans-serif;">Thanks a lot=
Karli, you make my mind clear about deduplication, once again we cannot ha=
ve the best of both worlds.<br <br>I'll try FreeNAS
despite my poor knowledge on FreeBSD. Openfiler, runni=
ng on Linux, has no better performance but supports
DRDB.<br><br>Jose<br><b=
r><hr><div style=3D"font-size: 12pt; font-style: normal; font-family:
Helve=
tica,Arial,sans-serif; text-decoration: none; font-weight: normal;" <div class=3D"im"><b>From:
</b>"Karli Sj=C3=B6berg" <<a href=3D"mailto:K=
arli.Sjoberg(a)slu.se"
target=3D"_blank">Karli.Sjoberg(a)slu.se</a>&gt;<br><b>T=
o: </b><a href=3D"mailto:suporte@logicworks.pt"
target=3D"_blank">suporte@l=
ogicworks.pt</a><br <b>Cc: </b>"Jiri
Belka" <<a href=3D"mailto:jbelka@redhat.com" target=3D"=
_blank">jbelka(a)redhat.com</a>&gt;, <a
href=3D"mailto:users@ovirt.org" targe=
t=3D"_blank">users(a)ovirt.org</a><br></div><b>Sent:
</b>Sexta-feira, 31 de M=
aio de 2013 10:45:41<br <b>Subject: </b>Re:
[Users] deduplication<div><div class=3D"h5"><br><br
fre 2013-05-31 klockan 09:50 +0100 skrev <a href=3D"mailto:suporte@logicwor=
ks.pt" target=3D"_blank">suporte(a)logicworks.pt</a>:
<blockquote><font color=3D"#000000">So, we can say that dedup has
more disa=
dvantages than advantages.</font><br
</blockquote <br For a
primary system; most definitely, yes.<br
<br But for a backup system, that has
tons of RAM and SSD's for cache, and you =
have lots of virtual machines that are based off of the template, or are ve=
ry much the same, then you have a real use-case. I=C2=B4m active at the Fre=
eBSD forums where one person reports
storing 150TB of data in only 30TB of physical disk. The best practice of =
scrubbing is once a week on "enterprise" systems, though he is only able to=
do it once a month, because that=C2=B4s how long it takes for a scrub to c=
omplete in that system. So you=C2=B4ve got
to choose performance or savings, you can=C2=B4t have both.<br <br <blockquote><br <font color=3D"#000000">And what about dedup of
Netapp?</font><br </blockquote <br Much better implementation, in my
opinion. You are able schedule dedup-runs=
to go at night so your user=C2=B4s performance isn=C2=B4t impacted, and yo=
u get the savings. The question is if you value the savings enough to take =
on price-tag that is NetApp. Or just build
your own FreeBSD/ZFS server with compression enabled and buy in standard H=
DD's from anywhere... We did;)<br
<br /Karli<br <br <blockquote><br <font
color=3D"#000000">Jose</font><br
<br <hr
align=3D"center" </blockquote <blockquote><b><font
color=3D"#000000">From: </font></b><font color=3D"#000=
000">"Karli Sj=C3=B6berg" <<a
href=3D"mailto:Karli.Sjoberg@slu.se" targe=
t=3D"_blank">Karli.Sjoberg(a)slu.se</a>&gt;</font><br <b><font color=3D"#000000">To:
</font></b><font color=3D"#000000"><a href=
=3D"mailto:suporte@logicworks.pt"
target=3D"_blank">suporte(a)logicworks.pt</=
a></font><br <b><font
color=3D"#000000">Cc: </font></b><font
color=3D"#000000">"Jiri Bel=
ka" <<a href=3D"mailto:jbelka@redhat.com"
target=3D"_blank">jbelka@redha=
t.com</a>>, <a href=3D"mailto:users@ovirt.org"
target=3D"_blank">users@o=
virt.org</a></font><br
<b><font color=3D"#000000">Sent: </font></b><font
color=3D"#000000">Quinta-=
feira, 30 de Maio de 2013 8:33:19</font><br
<b><font color=3D"#000000">Subject:
</font></b><font color=3D"#000000">Re: =
[Users] deduplication</font><br
<br <font
color=3D"#000000">ons 2013-05-29 klockan 09:59 +0100 skrev <a href=3D=
"mailto:suporte@logicworks.pt"
target=3D"_blank">suporte(a)logicworks.pt</a>:
</font><br <blockquote><font
color=3D"#000000">Absolutely agree with you, planning is =
the best thing to do, but normally people want a plug'n'play system with al=
l included, because there is not much time to think and planning, and there=
are many companies that know how
to take advantage of this people characteristics.</font><br <font color=3D"#000000">Any way, I think
another solution for dedup is Free=
NAS using ZFS.</font><br </blockquote <br <font
color=3D"#000000">FreeNAS is just FreeBSD with a fancy web-ui ontop, =
so it=C2=B4s neither more or less of ZFS than you would have otherwise, And=
regarding dedup in ZFS; Just don=C2=B4t, it=C2=B4s not worth it! It=C2=B4s=
said that it
</font><font
color=3D"#000000"><b>may</b></font><font
color=3D"#000000"> in=
crease performance when you have a very suitable usecase, e.g. everything
</font><font
color=3D"#000000"><b>exactly</b></font><font
color=3D"#000000"=
<br <font
color=3D"#000000">/Karli</font><br
<br <blockquote><br <font
color=3D"#000000">Jose</font><br
<br <br <hr
align=3D"center" <br
<b><font color=3D"#000000">From:
</font></b><font color=3D"#000000">"Jiri B=
elka" <<a href=3D"mailto:jbelka@redhat.com"
target=3D"_blank">jbelka@red=
hat.com</a>></font><br
<b><font color=3D"#000000">To: </font></b><font
color=3D"#000000"><a href=
=3D"mailto:suporte@logicworks.pt"
target=3D"_blank">suporte(a)logicworks.pt</=
a></font><br <b><font
color=3D"#000000">Cc: </font></b><font
color=3D"#000000"><a href=
=3D"mailto:users@ovirt.org"
target=3D"_blank">users(a)ovirt.org</a></font><br=
<b><font color=3D"#000000">Sent:
</font></b><font color=3D"#000000">Quarta-=
feira, 29 de Maio de 2013 7:33:10</font><br
<b><font color=3D"#000000">Subject:
</font></b><font color=3D"#000000">Re: =
[Users] deduplication</font><br
<br <font
color=3D"#000000">On Tue, 28 May 2013 14:29:05 +0100
(WEST)</font><br=
<font color=3D"#000000"><a
href=3D"mailto:suporte@logicworks.pt" target=3D"=
_blank">suporte(a)logicworks.pt</a> wrote:</font><br <br <font
color=3D"#000000">> That's why I'm making this questions, to
demys=
tify some buzzwords around here.</font><br <font
color=3D"#000000">> But if you have a strong and good technology w=
hy not create buzzwords to get into as many people as possible? without tra=
pped them.</font><br <font
color=3D"#000000">> Share a disk containing "static" data is
a goo=
d idea, do you know from where I can start?</font><br <br <font
color=3D"#000000">Everything depends on your needs, design planning. =
Maybe then sharing</font><br <font
color=3D"#000000">disk would be better to share via NFS/iscsi. Of cou=
rse if you have many</font><br <font
color=3D"#000000">VMs each of them is different you will fail. But if=
you have mostly</font><br <font
color=3D"#000000">homogeneous environment you can think about this ap=
proach. Sure you have</font><br <font
color=3D"#000000">to have plan for upgrading "base"
"static" shared O=
S data, you have to</font><br <font
color=3D"#000000">have plan how to install additional software (diffe=
rent destination</font><br <font
color=3D"#000000">than /usr or /usr/local)... If you already have you=
r own build host</font><br <font
color=3D"#000000">which builds for you OS packages and you have alrea=
dy your own plan for</font><br <font
color=3D"#000000">deployment, you have done first steps. If you depen=
d on upgrading each</font><br <font
color=3D"#000000">machine separately from Internet, then first you sh=
ould plan your</font><br <font
color=3D"#000000">environment, configuration management
etc.</font><b=
r <br <font
color=3D"#000000">Well, in many times people do not do any planning, =
they just think some</font><br <font
color=3D"#000000">good technology would save their "poor"
design.</fo=
nt><br <br <font
color=3D"#000000">j.</font><br
<br <br
<br </blockquote <br <table
cellpadding=3D"0" cellspacing=3D"0" width=3D"100%" <tbody
<tr <td>-- <br <br Med V=C3=A4nliga
H=C3=A4lsningar<br
---------------------------------------------------------------------------=
----<br Karli Sj=C3=B6berg<br Swedish University of Agricultural Sciences<br Box 7079 (Visiting Address Kron=C3=A5sv=C3=A4gen 8)<br S-750 07 Uppsala, Sweden<br Phone:
+46-(0)18-67 15 66<br <a
href=3D"mailto:karli.sjoberg@adm.slu.se"
target=3D"_blank">karli.sjoberg=
@slu.se</a> </td </tr
</tbody </table </blockquote
<blockquote><br <br
</blockquote <br <table
cellpadding=3D"0" cellspacing=3D"0" width=3D"100%" <tbody
<tr <td>-- <br <br Med V=C3=A4nliga
H=C3=A4lsningar<br
---------------------------------------------------------------------------=
----<br Karli Sj=C3=B6berg<br Swedish University of Agricultural Sciences<br Box 7079 (Visiting Address Kron=C3=A5sv=C3=A4gen 8)<br S-750 07 Uppsala, Sweden<br Phone:
+46-(0)18-67 15 66<br <a
href=3D"mailto:karli.sjoberg@adm.slu.se"
target=3D"_blank">karli.sjoberg=
@slu.se</a> </td </tr
</tbody </table
</div></div></div><br></div></div><br>_____________________________________=
__________<br Users mailing list<br <a href=3D"mailto:Users@ovirt.org"
target=3D"_blank">Users(a)ovirt.org</a><br=
<a
href=3D"http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/users"
target=3D"_blank"=
>http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/users</a><br <br></blockquote></div><br></div </div><br></div></body></html ------=_Part_1742_408268.1370275951382--
That's why I'm making this questions, to demystify some
buzzwords around =
here.=20
But if you have a strong and good technology why not create buzzwords
to =
get into as many people as possible? without trapped them.=20
Share a disk containing "static" data is a good idea, do
you know from wh=
ere I can start?=20
Everything depends on your needs, design planning. Maybe then sharing=20
disk would be better to share via NFS/iscsi. Of course if you have many=20
VMs each of them is different you will fail. But if you have mostly=20
homogeneous environment you can think about this approach. Sure you have=20
to have plan for upgrading "base" "static" shared OS data, you have
to=20
have plan how to install additional software (different destination=20
than /usr or /usr/local)... If you already have your own build host=20
which builds for you OS packages and you have already your own plan for=20
deployment, you have done first steps. If you depend on upgrading each=20
machine separately from Internet, then first you should plan your=20
environment, configuration management etc.=20
Well, in many times people do not do any planning, they just think some=20
good technology would save their "poor" design.=20
j.=20
</blockquote the same over and over. What=C2=B4s not said is that scrubbing and
resilv=
ering slows down to a snail (from hundreds of MB/s, or GB if your system
is=
large enough, down to less than 10), just
from dedup. Also deleting snapshots of datasets that have(or have had) ded=
up on can kill the entire system, and when I say kill, I mean really fubar.=
Been there, regretted that... Now, compression on the other hand, you get =
basically for free and gives decent
savings, I highly recommend that.</font><br