5:18 a.m.
Is there any method of designating which domain should be the master
storage domain or forcibly changing the role to a different storage domain?
EG: Given the following example
Storage Domain A (Master) --> NFS --> Storage Server 1
Storage Domain B --> NFS --> Storage Server 2
One wants to do maintenance to Storage Server 1 but in doing so the Master
storage domain is hosted from Storage Server 1. Thus the net result of
taking down Storage Server 1 is that one must also take down Storage Server
2.
Thus we know we must shut down VM's from Storage Domain A to maintenance
Storage Server 1. Suppose however that VM's are running that we don't want
to shut down and are hosted from Storage Domain B via Storage Server 2.
We would want to be able to promote Storage Domain B to Master so that we
can take down Storage Domain A to do maintenance to Storage Server 1.
Once we are done with maintenance to Storage Server 1 we can bring Storage
Domain A back on line, re-designate it as Master if desired and bring it's
VM's back online.
I know I have seen this occur automatically to a point when a Storage
Domain goes missing that is the Master Domain but I have not noted any
manual method of doing so given the above scenario.
- DHC
7:05 a.m.
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4:37 p.m.
On 08/15/2013 06:18 AM, Dead Horse wrote:
Is there any method of designating which domain should be the master
storage domain or forcibly changing the role to a different storage domain?
EG: Given the following example
Storage Domain A (Master) --> NFS --> Storage Server 1
Storage Domain B --> NFS --> Storage Server 2
One wants to do maintenance to Storage Server 1 but in doing so the
Master storage domain is hosted from Storage Server 1. Thus the net
result of taking down Storage Server 1 is that one must also take down
Storage Server 2.
Thus we know we must shut down VM's from Storage Domain A to maintenance
Storage Server 1. Suppose however that VM's are running that we don't
want to shut down and are hosted from Storage Domain B via Storage Server 2.
We would want to be able to promote Storage Domain B to Master so that
we can take down Storage Domain A to do maintenance to Storage Server 1.
Once we are done with maintenance to Storage Server 1 we can bring
Storage Domain A back on line, re-designate it as Master if desired and
bring it's VM's back online.
I know I have seen this occur automatically to a point when a Storage
Domain goes missing that is the Master Domain but I have not noted any
manual method of doing so given the above scenario.
- DHC
_______________________________________________
Users mailing list
Users(a)ovirt.org
http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/users
my understanding is you can move the storage domain A which is master to
maint. engine will promote storage domain B to master and everything
should continue working as is.
5:46 p.m.
Itamar this is true (I have noted occasional timing issues with it actually
working).
But what if as the administrator I have a specific storage domain in mind
that I would like to have become the master (in the case of more then two)?
@Karli
The idea is not to not have to shut down all the VM's or the engine just to
maintenance a storage domain(s) that may happen to be on disparate storage
servers
.
- DHC
On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 9:37 AM, Itamar Heim <iheim(a)redhat.com> wrote:
On 08/15/2013 06:18 AM, Dead Horse wrote:
> Is there any method of designating which domain should be the master
> storage domain or forcibly changing the role to a different storage
> domain?
>
> EG: Given the following example
>
> Storage Domain A (Master) --> NFS --> Storage Server 1
> Storage Domain B --> NFS --> Storage Server 2
>
> One wants to do maintenance to Storage Server 1 but in doing so the
> Master storage domain is hosted from Storage Server 1. Thus the net
> result of taking down Storage Server 1 is that one must also take down
> Storage Server 2.
>
> Thus we know we must shut down VM's from Storage Domain A to maintenance
> Storage Server 1. Suppose however that VM's are running that we don't
> want to shut down and are hosted from Storage Domain B via Storage Server
> 2.
>
> We would want to be able to promote Storage Domain B to Master so that
> we can take down Storage Domain A to do maintenance to Storage Server 1.
>
> Once we are done with maintenance to Storage Server 1 we can bring
> Storage Domain A back on line, re-designate it as Master if desired and
> bring it's VM's back online.
>
> I know I have seen this occur automatically to a point when a Storage
> Domain goes missing that is the Master Domain but I have not noted any
> manual method of doing so given the above scenario.
>
> - DHC
>
>
> ______________________________**_________________
> Users mailing list
> Users(a)ovirt.org
>
http://lists.ovirt.org/**mailman/listinfo/users<http://lists.ovirt.org...
>
>
my understanding is you can move the storage domain A which is master to
maint. engine will promote storage domain B to master and everything should
continue working as is.
6:09 p.m.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dead Horse" <deadhorseconsulting(a)gmail.com>
To: "Itamar Heim" <iheim(a)redhat.com>
Cc: "<users(a)ovirt.org>" <users(a)ovirt.org>
Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2013 6:46:00 PM
Subject: Re: [Users] Designate Master Storage Domain
Itamar this is true (I have noted occasional timing issues with it actually
working).
But what if as the administrator I have a specific storage domain in mind
that I would like to have become the master (in the case of more then two)?
In that case - you could reinitialize the pool using unattached domain (you chose which
one) - this domain will become the new master.
1. Create new unattached domain/Detach the domain that you want to be the master from the
pool (if possible)
2. Move all the pool domain to maintenance (the master should be put to maintenance last
to avoid reconstructing to another domain).
3. Right click on the data center, chose reinitialize storage pool - you can chose which
domain do you want to be the master from the unattached domains.
The other option is manual db intervention :)
Possibly we could add a possibility to manually change the master domain, same as was
added for the spm ("Make SPM" button that was added recently).
@Karli
The idea is not to not have to shut down all the VM's or the engine just to
maintenance a storage domain(s) that may happen to be on disparate storage
servers
.
- DHC
On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 9:37 AM, Itamar Heim < iheim(a)redhat.com > wrote:
On 08/15/2013 06:18 AM, Dead Horse wrote:
Is there any method of designating which domain should be the master
storage domain or forcibly changing the role to a different storage domain?
EG: Given the following example
Storage Domain A (Master) --> NFS --> Storage Server 1
Storage Domain B --> NFS --> Storage Server 2
One wants to do maintenance to Storage Server 1 but in doing so the
Master storage domain is hosted from Storage Server 1. Thus the net
result of taking down Storage Server 1 is that one must also take down
Storage Server 2.
Thus we know we must shut down VM's from Storage Domain A to maintenance
Storage Server 1. Suppose however that VM's are running that we don't
want to shut down and are hosted from Storage Domain B via Storage Server 2.
We would want to be able to promote Storage Domain B to Master so that
we can take down Storage Domain A to do maintenance to Storage Server 1.
Once we are done with maintenance to Storage Server 1 we can bring
Storage Domain A back on line, re-designate it as Master if desired and
bring it's VM's back online.
I know I have seen this occur automatically to a point when a Storage
Domain goes missing that is the Master Domain but I have not noted any
manual method of doing so given the above scenario.
- DHC
______________________________ _________________
Users mailing list
Users(a)ovirt.org
http://lists.ovirt.org/ mailman/listinfo/users
my understanding is you can move the storage domain A which is master to
maint. engine will promote storage domain B to master and everything should
continue working as is.
_______________________________________________
Users mailing list
Users(a)ovirt.org
http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/users
6:32 p.m.
+1 to Adding a "Make Master Storage Domain Button" ;-)
On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 11:09 AM, Liron Aravot <laravot(a)redhat.com> wrote:
----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dead Horse" <deadhorseconsulting(a)gmail.com>
> To: "Itamar Heim" <iheim(a)redhat.com>
> Cc: "<users(a)ovirt.org>" <users(a)ovirt.org>
> Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2013 6:46:00 PM
> Subject: Re: [Users] Designate Master Storage Domain
>
> Itamar this is true (I have noted occasional timing issues with it
actually
> working).
> But what if as the administrator I have a specific storage domain in mind
> that I would like to have become the master (in the case of more then
two)?
In that case - you could reinitialize the pool using unattached domain
(you chose which one) - this domain will become the new master.
1. Create new unattached domain/Detach the domain that you want to be the
master from the pool (if possible)
2. Move all the pool domain to maintenance (the master should be put to
maintenance last to avoid reconstructing to another domain).
3. Right click on the data center, chose reinitialize storage pool - you
can chose which domain do you want to be the master from the unattached
domains.
The other option is manual db intervention :)
Possibly we could add a possibility to manually change the master domain,
same as was added for the spm ("Make SPM" button that was added recently).
>
> @Karli
> The idea is not to not have to shut down all the VM's or the engine just
to
> maintenance a storage domain(s) that may happen to be on disparate
storage
> servers
> .
> - DHC
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 9:37 AM, Itamar Heim < iheim(a)redhat.com > wrote:
>
>
>
> On 08/15/2013 06:18 AM, Dead Horse wrote:
>
>
>
> Is there any method of designating which domain should be the master
> storage domain or forcibly changing the role to a different storage
domain?
>
> EG: Given the following example
>
> Storage Domain A (Master) --> NFS --> Storage Server 1
> Storage Domain B --> NFS --> Storage Server 2
>
> One wants to do maintenance to Storage Server 1 but in doing so the
> Master storage domain is hosted from Storage Server 1. Thus the net
> result of taking down Storage Server 1 is that one must also take down
> Storage Server 2.
>
> Thus we know we must shut down VM's from Storage Domain A to maintenance
> Storage Server 1. Suppose however that VM's are running that we don't
> want to shut down and are hosted from Storage Domain B via Storage
Server 2.
>
> We would want to be able to promote Storage Domain B to Master so that
> we can take down Storage Domain A to do maintenance to Storage Server 1.
>
> Once we are done with maintenance to Storage Server 1 we can bring
> Storage Domain A back on line, re-designate it as Master if desired and
> bring it's VM's back online.
>
> I know I have seen this occur automatically to a point when a Storage
> Domain goes missing that is the Master Domain but I have not noted any
> manual method of doing so given the above scenario.
>
> - DHC
>
>
> ______________________________ _________________
> Users mailing list
> Users(a)ovirt.org
> http://lists.ovirt.org/ mailman/listinfo/users
>
>
> my understanding is you can move the storage domain A which is master to
> maint. engine will promote storage domain B to master and everything
should
> continue working as is.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Users mailing list
> Users(a)ovirt.org
> http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/users
>
7:30 p.m.
On 08/15/2013 07:32 PM, Dead Horse wrote:
+1 to Adding a "Make Master Storage Domain Button" ;-)
actually, not sure i'm for this.
if anything, we want to get rid of the master storage domain going
forward to make the storage domains autonomous, allowing to mix and
match storage types, local and shared storage, etc...
rhev-m may reconstruct the master storage domain on any of your SDs over
time automatically
On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 11:09 AM, Liron Aravot <laravot(a)redhat.com
<mailto:laravot@redhat.com>> wrote:
----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dead Horse" <deadhorseconsulting(a)gmail.com
<mailto:deadhorseconsulting@gmail.com>>
> To: "Itamar Heim" <iheim(a)redhat.com
<mailto:iheim@redhat.com>>
> Cc: "<users(a)ovirt.org <mailto:users@ovirt.org>>"
<users(a)ovirt.org
<mailto:users@ovirt.org>>
> Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2013 6:46:00 PM
> Subject: Re: [Users] Designate Master Storage Domain
>
> Itamar this is true (I have noted occasional timing issues with
it actually
> working).
> But what if as the administrator I have a specific storage domain
in mind
> that I would like to have become the master (in the case of more
then two)?
In that case - you could reinitialize the pool using unattached
domain (you chose which one) - this domain will become the new master.
1. Create new unattached domain/Detach the domain that you want to
be the master from the pool (if possible)
2. Move all the pool domain to maintenance (the master should be put
to maintenance last to avoid reconstructing to another domain).
3. Right click on the data center, chose reinitialize storage pool -
you can chose which domain do you want to be the master from the
unattached domains.
The other option is manual db intervention :)
Possibly we could add a possibility to manually change the master
domain, same as was added for the spm ("Make SPM" button that was
added recently).
>
> @Karli
> The idea is not to not have to shut down all the VM's or the
engine just to
> maintenance a storage domain(s) that may happen to be on
disparate storage
> servers
> .
> - DHC
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 9:37 AM, Itamar Heim < iheim(a)redhat.com
<mailto:iheim@redhat.com> > wrote:
>
>
>
> On 08/15/2013 06:18 AM, Dead Horse wrote:
>
>
>
> Is there any method of designating which domain should be the master
> storage domain or forcibly changing the role to a different
storage domain?
>
> EG: Given the following example
>
> Storage Domain A (Master) --> NFS --> Storage Server 1
> Storage Domain B --> NFS --> Storage Server 2
>
> One wants to do maintenance to Storage Server 1 but in doing so the
> Master storage domain is hosted from Storage Server 1. Thus the net
> result of taking down Storage Server 1 is that one must also take
down
> Storage Server 2.
>
> Thus we know we must shut down VM's from Storage Domain A to
maintenance
> Storage Server 1. Suppose however that VM's are running that we don't
> want to shut down and are hosted from Storage Domain B via
Storage Server 2.
>
> We would want to be able to promote Storage Domain B to Master so
that
> we can take down Storage Domain A to do maintenance to Storage
Server 1.
>
> Once we are done with maintenance to Storage Server 1 we can bring
> Storage Domain A back on line, re-designate it as Master if
desired and
> bring it's VM's back online.
>
> I know I have seen this occur automatically to a point when a Storage
> Domain goes missing that is the Master Domain but I have not
noted any
> manual method of doing so given the above scenario.
>
> - DHC
>
>
> ______________________________ _________________
> Users mailing list
> Users(a)ovirt.org <mailto:Users@ovirt.org>
> http://lists.ovirt.org/ mailman/listinfo/users
>
>
> my understanding is you can move the storage domain A which is
master to
> maint. engine will promote storage domain B to master and
everything should
> continue working as is.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Users mailing list
> Users(a)ovirt.org <mailto:Users@ovirt.org>
> http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/users
>
8:45 p.m.
I agree Itamar.
That would actually be the most optimal situation. Freedom in storage
domain types and ability to import or export any given storage domain
freely. Along with this more freedom in the image types allowed on
file-based storage domains as well (EG: not only raw).
On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 12:30 PM, Itamar Heim <iheim(a)redhat.com> wrote:
On 08/15/2013 07:32 PM, Dead Horse wrote:
> +1 to Adding a "Make Master Storage Domain Button" ;-)
>
actually, not sure i'm for this.
if anything, we want to get rid of the master storage domain going forward
to make the storage domains autonomous, allowing to mix and match storage
types, local and shared storage, etc...
rhev-m may reconstruct the master storage domain on any of your SDs over
time automatically
>
> On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 11:09 AM, Liron Aravot <laravot(a)redhat.com
> <mailto:laravot@redhat.com>> wrote:
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Dead Horse" <deadhorseconsulting(a)gmail.com
> <mailto:deadhorseconsulting@**gmail.com<deadhorseconsulting@gmail.com>
> >>
> > To: "Itamar Heim" <iheim(a)redhat.com
<mailto:iheim@redhat.com>>
> > Cc: "<users(a)ovirt.org <mailto:users@ovirt.org>>"
<users(a)ovirt.org
> <mailto:users@ovirt.org>>
> > Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2013 6:46:00 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Users] Designate Master Storage Domain
> >
> > Itamar this is true (I have noted occasional timing issues with
> it actually
> > working).
> > But what if as the administrator I have a specific storage domain
> in mind
> > that I would like to have become the master (in the case of more
> then two)?
>
> In that case - you could reinitialize the pool using unattached
> domain (you chose which one) - this domain will become the new master.
> 1. Create new unattached domain/Detach the domain that you want to
> be the master from the pool (if possible)
> 2. Move all the pool domain to maintenance (the master should be put
> to maintenance last to avoid reconstructing to another domain).
> 3. Right click on the data center, chose reinitialize storage pool -
> you can chose which domain do you want to be the master from the
> unattached domains.
>
> The other option is manual db intervention :)
> Possibly we could add a possibility to manually change the master
> domain, same as was added for the spm ("Make SPM" button that was
> added recently).
>
>
> >
> > @Karli
> > The idea is not to not have to shut down all the VM's or the
> engine just to
> > maintenance a storage domain(s) that may happen to be on
> disparate storage
> > servers
> > .
> > - DHC
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 9:37 AM, Itamar Heim < iheim(a)redhat.com
> <mailto:iheim@redhat.com> > wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > On 08/15/2013 06:18 AM, Dead Horse wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > Is there any method of designating which domain should be the
> master
> > storage domain or forcibly changing the role to a different
> storage domain?
> >
> > EG: Given the following example
> >
> > Storage Domain A (Master) --> NFS --> Storage Server 1
> > Storage Domain B --> NFS --> Storage Server 2
> >
> > One wants to do maintenance to Storage Server 1 but in doing so the
> > Master storage domain is hosted from Storage Server 1. Thus the net
> > result of taking down Storage Server 1 is that one must also take
> down
> > Storage Server 2.
> >
> > Thus we know we must shut down VM's from Storage Domain A to
> maintenance
> > Storage Server 1. Suppose however that VM's are running that we
> don't
> > want to shut down and are hosted from Storage Domain B via
> Storage Server 2.
> >
> > We would want to be able to promote Storage Domain B to Master so
> that
> > we can take down Storage Domain A to do maintenance to Storage
> Server 1.
> >
> > Once we are done with maintenance to Storage Server 1 we can bring
> > Storage Domain A back on line, re-designate it as Master if
> desired and
> > bring it's VM's back online.
> >
> > I know I have seen this occur automatically to a point when a
> Storage
> > Domain goes missing that is the Master Domain but I have not
> noted any
> > manual method of doing so given the above scenario.
> >
> > - DHC
> >
> >
> > ______________________________ _________________
> > Users mailing list
> > Users(a)ovirt.org <mailto:Users@ovirt.org>
>
> > http://lists.ovirt.org/ mailman/listinfo/users
> >
> >
> > my understanding is you can move the storage domain A which is
> master to
> > maint. engine will promote storage domain B to master and
> everything should
> > continue working as is.
> >
> >
> > ______________________________**_________________
> > Users mailing list
> > Users(a)ovirt.org <mailto:Users@ovirt.org>
> >
http://lists.ovirt.org/**mailman/listinfo/users<http://lists.ovirt.org...
> >
>
>
>
10:13 p.m.
I am all for the "mix and match" idea of storage.
On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 1:30 PM, Itamar Heim <iheim(a)redhat.com> wrote:
On 08/15/2013 07:32 PM, Dead Horse wrote:
> +1 to Adding a "Make Master Storage Domain Button" ;-)
>
actually, not sure i'm for this.
if anything, we want to get rid of the master storage domain going forward
to make the storage domains autonomous, allowing to mix and match storage
types, local and shared storage, etc...
rhev-m may reconstruct the master storage domain on any of your SDs over
time automatically
>
> On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 11:09 AM, Liron Aravot <laravot(a)redhat.com
> <mailto:laravot@redhat.com>> wrote:
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Dead Horse" <deadhorseconsulting(a)gmail.com
> <mailto:deadhorseconsulting@**gmail.com<deadhorseconsulting@gmail.com>
> >>
> > To: "Itamar Heim" <iheim(a)redhat.com
<mailto:iheim@redhat.com>>
> > Cc: "<users(a)ovirt.org <mailto:users@ovirt.org>>"
<users(a)ovirt.org
> <mailto:users@ovirt.org>>
> > Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2013 6:46:00 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Users] Designate Master Storage Domain
> >
> > Itamar this is true (I have noted occasional timing issues with
> it actually
> > working).
> > But what if as the administrator I have a specific storage domain
> in mind
> > that I would like to have become the master (in the case of more
> then two)?
>
> In that case - you could reinitialize the pool using unattached
> domain (you chose which one) - this domain will become the new master.
> 1. Create new unattached domain/Detach the domain that you want to
> be the master from the pool (if possible)
> 2. Move all the pool domain to maintenance (the master should be put
> to maintenance last to avoid reconstructing to another domain).
> 3. Right click on the data center, chose reinitialize storage pool -
> you can chose which domain do you want to be the master from the
> unattached domains.
>
> The other option is manual db intervention :)
> Possibly we could add a possibility to manually change the master
> domain, same as was added for the spm ("Make SPM" button that was
> added recently).
>
>
> >
> > @Karli
> > The idea is not to not have to shut down all the VM's or the
> engine just to
> > maintenance a storage domain(s) that may happen to be on
> disparate storage
> > servers
> > .
> > - DHC
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 9:37 AM, Itamar Heim < iheim(a)redhat.com
> <mailto:iheim@redhat.com> > wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > On 08/15/2013 06:18 AM, Dead Horse wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > Is there any method of designating which domain should be the
> master
> > storage domain or forcibly changing the role to a different
> storage domain?
> >
> > EG: Given the following example
> >
> > Storage Domain A (Master) --> NFS --> Storage Server 1
> > Storage Domain B --> NFS --> Storage Server 2
> >
> > One wants to do maintenance to Storage Server 1 but in doing so the
> > Master storage domain is hosted from Storage Server 1. Thus the net
> > result of taking down Storage Server 1 is that one must also take
> down
> > Storage Server 2.
> >
> > Thus we know we must shut down VM's from Storage Domain A to
> maintenance
> > Storage Server 1. Suppose however that VM's are running that we
> don't
> > want to shut down and are hosted from Storage Domain B via
> Storage Server 2.
> >
> > We would want to be able to promote Storage Domain B to Master so
> that
> > we can take down Storage Domain A to do maintenance to Storage
> Server 1.
> >
> > Once we are done with maintenance to Storage Server 1 we can bring
> > Storage Domain A back on line, re-designate it as Master if
> desired and
> > bring it's VM's back online.
> >
> > I know I have seen this occur automatically to a point when a
> Storage
> > Domain goes missing that is the Master Domain but I have not
> noted any
> > manual method of doing so given the above scenario.
> >
> > - DHC
> >
> >
> > ______________________________ _________________
> > Users mailing list
> > Users(a)ovirt.org <mailto:Users@ovirt.org>
>
> > http://lists.ovirt.org/ mailman/listinfo/users
> >
> >
> > my understanding is you can move the storage domain A which is
> master to
> > maint. engine will promote storage domain B to master and
> everything should
> > continue working as is.
> >
> >
> > ______________________________**_________________
> > Users mailing list
> > Users(a)ovirt.org <mailto:Users@ovirt.org>
> >
http://lists.ovirt.org/**mailman/listinfo/users<http://lists.ovirt.org...
> >
>
>
>
______________________________**_________________
Users mailing list
Users(a)ovirt.org
http://lists.ovirt.org/**mailman/listinfo/users<http://lists.ovirt.org...
--
--
James P. Kinney III
*
*Every time you stop a school, you will have to build a jail. What you gain
at one end you lose at the other. It's like feeding a dog on his own tail.
It won't fatten the dog.
- Speech 11/23/1900 Mark Twain
*
http://heretothereideas.blogspot.com/
*
7:14 a.m.
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--_000_5F9E965F5A80BC468BE5F40576769F092E705929exchange21_--
3:46 p.m.
Pausing the VM's can work in certain situations for simple maintenance.
However suppose the purpose of the storage shutdown is to move data around
for certain VM's or perhaps change that particular underlying storage
filesystem or hardware. Thus some of the VM's will have to be down for sure
however pausing them all because of the aforementioned would not be an
option since it would take hours or days depending on the amount of data
and the degree of change.
- DHC
On Fri, Aug 16, 2013 at 12:14 AM, Karli Sjöberg <Karli.Sjoberg(a)slu.se>wrote:
**
tor 2013-08-15 klockan 10:46 -0500 skrev Dead Horse:
Itamar this is true (I have noted occasional timing issues with it
actually working).
But what if as the administrator I have a specific storage domain in mind
that I would like to have become the master (in the case of more then two)?
@Karli
The idea is not to not have to shut down all the VM's or the engine just
to maintenance a storage domain(s) that may happen to be on disparate
storage servers
.
Yes I understood that. My suggestion was a workaround until such
operations are possible, that we use to minimize downtime as much as
possible, to *pause* the VM's, shut down engine, maintenance, bring
engine and VM's back. Since the VM's only was paused and engine shut down,
the VM's just continue going happily unknowing exactly from where they
were, and a reboot of a storage takes at most 5mins, which means 5mins
total of downtime in the cloud environment for that quarter, which is
acceptable for just about any SLA.
/Karli
- DHC
On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 9:37 AM, Itamar Heim <iheim(a)redhat.com> wrote:
On 08/15/2013 06:18 AM, Dead Horse wrote:
Is there any method of designating which domain should be the master
storage domain or forcibly changing the role to a different storage domain?
EG: Given the following example
Storage Domain A (Master) --> NFS --> Storage Server 1
Storage Domain B --> NFS --> Storage Server 2
One wants to do maintenance to Storage Server 1 but in doing so the
Master storage domain is hosted from Storage Server 1. Thus the net
result of taking down Storage Server 1 is that one must also take down
Storage Server 2.
Thus we know we must shut down VM's from Storage Domain A to maintenance
Storage Server 1. Suppose however that VM's are running that we don't
want to shut down and are hosted from Storage Domain B via Storage Server
2.
We would want to be able to promote Storage Domain B to Master so that
we can take down Storage Domain A to do maintenance to Storage Server 1.
Once we are done with maintenance to Storage Server 1 we can bring
Storage Domain A back on line, re-designate it as Master if desired and
bring it's VM's back online.
I know I have seen this occur automatically to a point when a Storage
Domain goes missing that is the Master Domain but I have not noted any
manual method of doing so given the above scenario.
- DHC
_______________________________________________
Users mailing list
Users(a)ovirt.org
http://lists.ovirt.org/ <http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/users>
mailman/listinfo/users <http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/users>
my understanding is you can move the storage domain A which is master to
maint. engine will promote storage domain B to master and everything should
continue working as is.
--
Med Vänliga Hälsningar
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Karli Sjöberg
Swedish University of Agricultural Sciences
Box 7079 (Visiting Address Kronåsvägen 8)
S-750 07 Uppsala, Sweden
Phone: +46-(0)18-67 15 66
karli.sjoberg(a)slu.se <karli.sjoberg(a)adm.slu.se>
8:50 a.m.
On 08/16/2013 04:46 PM, Dead Horse wrote:
Pausing the VM's can work in certain situations for simple
maintenance.
However suppose the purpose of the storage shutdown is to move data
around for certain VM's or perhaps change that particular underlying
storage filesystem or hardware. Thus some of the VM's will have to be
down for sure however pausing them all because of the aforementioned
would not be an option since it would take hours or days depending on
the amount of data and the degree of change.
I'm sorry - how is pausing VMs running from a storage domain moved to
maint is related to master storage domain?
- DHC
On Fri, Aug 16, 2013 at 12:14 AM, Karli Sjöberg <Karli.Sjoberg(a)slu.se
<mailto:Karli.Sjoberg@slu.se>> wrote:
__
tor 2013-08-15 klockan 10:46 -0500 skrev Dead Horse:
> Itamar this is true (I have noted occasional timing issues with it
> actually working).
> But what if as the administrator I have a specific storage domain
> in mind that I would like to have become the master (in the case
> of more then two)?
>
>
> @Karli
>
> The idea is not to not have to shut down all the VM's or the
> engine just to maintenance a storage domain(s) that may happen to
> be on disparate storage servers
> .
Yes I understood that. My suggestion was a workaround until such
operations are possible, that we use to minimize downtime as much as
possible, to *pause* the VM's, shut down engine, maintenance, bring
engine and VM's back. Since the VM's only was paused and engine shut
down, the VM's just continue going happily unknowing exactly from
where they were, and a reboot of a storage takes at most 5mins,
which means 5mins total of downtime in the cloud environment for
that quarter, which is acceptable for just about any SLA.
/Karli
>
> - DHC
>
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 9:37 AM, Itamar Heim <iheim(a)redhat.com
> <mailto:iheim@redhat.com>> wrote:
>
> On 08/15/2013 06:18 AM, Dead Horse wrote:
>
> Is there any method of designating which domain should be
> the master
> storage domain or forcibly changing the role to a
> different storage domain?
>
> EG: Given the following example
>
> Storage Domain A (Master) --> NFS --> Storage Server 1
> Storage Domain B --> NFS --> Storage Server 2
>
> One wants to do maintenance to Storage Server 1 but in
> doing so the
> Master storage domain is hosted from Storage Server 1.
> Thus the net
> result of taking down Storage Server 1 is that one must
> also take down
> Storage Server 2.
>
> Thus we know we must shut down VM's from Storage Domain A
> to maintenance
> Storage Server 1. Suppose however that VM's are running
> that we don't
> want to shut down and are hosted from Storage Domain B via
> Storage Server 2.
>
> We would want to be able to promote Storage Domain B to
> Master so that
> we can take down Storage Domain A to do maintenance to
> Storage Server 1.
>
> Once we are done with maintenance to Storage Server 1 we
> can bring
> Storage Domain A back on line, re-designate it as Master
> if desired and
> bring it's VM's back online.
>
> I know I have seen this occur automatically to a point
> when a Storage
> Domain goes missing that is the Master Domain but I have
> not noted any
> manual method of doing so given the above scenario.
>
> - DHC
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Users mailing list
> Users(a)ovirt.org <mailto:Users@ovirt.org>
> http://lists.ovirt.org/
>
<http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/users>mailman/listinfo/users
> <http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/users>
>
>
> my understanding is you can move the storage domain A which is
> master to maint. engine will promote storage domain B to
> master and everything should continue working as is.
>
>
>
--
Med Vänliga Hälsningar
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Karli Sjöberg
Swedish University of Agricultural Sciences
Box 7079 (Visiting Address Kronåsvägen 8)
S-750 07 Uppsala, Sweden
Phone: +46-(0)18-67 15 66 <tel:%2B46-%280%2918-67%2015%2066>
karli.sjoberg(a)slu.se <mailto:karli.sjoberg@adm.slu.se>
12:47 p.m.
----- Original Message -----
Pausing the VM's can work in certain situations for simple
maintenance.
However suppose the purpose of the storage shutdown is to move data around
for certain VM's or perhaps change that particular underlying storage
Then why not live migrate the relevant disks?
filesystem or hardware. Thus some of the VM's will have to be
down for sure
however pausing them all because of the aforementioned would not be an
option since it would take hours or days depending on the amount of data and
the degree of change.
- DHC
On Fri, Aug 16, 2013 at 12:14 AM, Karli Sjöberg < Karli.Sjoberg(a)slu.se >
wrote:
tor 2013-08-15 klockan 10:46 -0500 skrev Dead Horse:
Itamar this is true (I have noted occasional timing issues with it actually
working).
But what if as the administrator I have a specific storage domain in mind
that I would like to have become the master (in the case of more then two)?
@Karli
The idea is not to not have to shut down all the VM's or the engine just to
maintenance a storage domain(s) that may happen to be on disparate storage
servers
.
Yes I understood that. My suggestion was a workaround until such operations
are possible, that we use to minimize downtime as much as possible, to pause
the VM's, shut down engine, maintenance, bring engine and VM's back. Since
the VM's only was paused and engine shut down, the VM's just continue going
happily unknowing exactly from where they were, and a reboot of a storage
takes at most 5mins, which means 5mins total of downtime in the cloud
environment for that quarter, which is acceptable for just about any SLA.
/Karli
- DHC
On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 9:37 AM, Itamar Heim < iheim(a)redhat.com > wrote:
On 08/15/2013 06:18 AM, Dead Horse wrote:
Is there any method of designating which domain should be the master
storage domain or forcibly changing the role to a different storage domain?
EG: Given the following example
Storage Domain A (Master) --> NFS --> Storage Server 1
Storage Domain B --> NFS --> Storage Server 2
One wants to do maintenance to Storage Server 1 but in doing so the
Master storage domain is hosted from Storage Server 1. Thus the net
result of taking down Storage Server 1 is that one must also take down
Storage Server 2.
Thus we know we must shut down VM's from Storage Domain A to maintenance
Storage Server 1. Suppose however that VM's are running that we don't
want to shut down and are hosted from Storage Domain B via Storage Server 2.
We would want to be able to promote Storage Domain B to Master so that
we can take down Storage Domain A to do maintenance to Storage Server 1.
Once we are done with maintenance to Storage Server 1 we can bring
Storage Domain A back on line, re-designate it as Master if desired and
bring it's VM's back online.
I know I have seen this occur automatically to a point when a Storage
Domain goes missing that is the Master Domain but I have not noted any
manual method of doing so given the above scenario.
- DHC
_______________________________________________
Users mailing list
Users(a)ovirt.org
http://lists.ovirt.org/ mailman/listinfo/users
my understanding is you can move the storage domain A which is master to
maint. engine will promote storage domain B to master and everything should
continue working as is.
--
Med Vänliga Hälsningar
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Karli Sjöberg
Swedish University of Agricultural Sciences
Box 7079 (Visiting Address Kronåsvägen 8)
S-750 07 Uppsala, Sweden
Phone: +46-(0)18-67 15 66
karli.sjoberg(a)slu.se
_______________________________________________
Users mailing list
Users(a)ovirt.org
http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/users
7:08 p.m.
Live Migration is possible when the relevant storage server is not the one
needing to be taken offline for maintenance. Granted a proper Gluster setup
would alleviate that however when optimum performance of file backed
virtual disks is a factor Gluster is not there yet.
- DHC
On Sun, Aug 18, 2013 at 5:47 AM, Ayal Baron <abaron(a)redhat.com> wrote:
----- Original Message -----
> Pausing the VM's can work in certain situations for simple maintenance.
> However suppose the purpose of the storage shutdown is to move data
around
> for certain VM's or perhaps change that particular underlying storage
Then why not live migrate the relevant disks?
> filesystem or hardware. Thus some of the VM's will have to be down for
sure
> however pausing them all because of the aforementioned would not be an
> option since it would take hours or days depending on the amount of data
and
> the degree of change.
>
> - DHC
>
>
> On Fri, Aug 16, 2013 at 12:14 AM, Karli Sjöberg < Karli.Sjoberg(a)slu.se >
> wrote:
>
>
>
> tor 2013-08-15 klockan 10:46 -0500 skrev Dead Horse:
>
>
> Itamar this is true (I have noted occasional timing issues with it
actually
> working).
> But what if as the administrator I have a specific storage domain in mind
> that I would like to have become the master (in the case of more then
two)?
>
>
>
>
> @Karli
>
>
>
> The idea is not to not have to shut down all the VM's or the engine just
to
> maintenance a storage domain(s) that may happen to be on disparate
storage
> servers
> .
>
> Yes I understood that. My suggestion was a workaround until such
operations
> are possible, that we use to minimize downtime as much as possible, to
pause
> the VM's, shut down engine, maintenance, bring engine and VM's back.
Since
> the VM's only was paused and engine shut down, the VM's just continue
going
> happily unknowing exactly from where they were, and a reboot of a storage
> takes at most 5mins, which means 5mins total of downtime in the cloud
> environment for that quarter, which is acceptable for just about any SLA.
>
> /Karli
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> - DHC
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 9:37 AM, Itamar Heim < iheim(a)redhat.com > wrote:
>
>
>
> On 08/15/2013 06:18 AM, Dead Horse wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Is there any method of designating which domain should be the master
> storage domain or forcibly changing the role to a different storage
domain?
>
> EG: Given the following example
>
> Storage Domain A (Master) --> NFS --> Storage Server 1
> Storage Domain B --> NFS --> Storage Server 2
>
> One wants to do maintenance to Storage Server 1 but in doing so the
> Master storage domain is hosted from Storage Server 1. Thus the net
> result of taking down Storage Server 1 is that one must also take down
> Storage Server 2.
>
> Thus we know we must shut down VM's from Storage Domain A to maintenance
> Storage Server 1. Suppose however that VM's are running that we don't
> want to shut down and are hosted from Storage Domain B via Storage
Server 2.
>
> We would want to be able to promote Storage Domain B to Master so that
> we can take down Storage Domain A to do maintenance to Storage Server 1.
>
> Once we are done with maintenance to Storage Server 1 we can bring
> Storage Domain A back on line, re-designate it as Master if desired and
> bring it's VM's back online.
>
> I know I have seen this occur automatically to a point when a Storage
> Domain goes missing that is the Master Domain but I have not noted any
> manual method of doing so given the above scenario.
>
> - DHC
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Users mailing list
> Users(a)ovirt.org
> http://lists.ovirt.org/ mailman/listinfo/users
>
>
> my understanding is you can move the storage domain A which is master to
> maint. engine will promote storage domain B to master and everything
should
> continue working as is.
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Med Vänliga Hälsningar
>
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Karli Sjöberg
> Swedish University of Agricultural Sciences
> Box 7079 (Visiting Address Kronåsvägen 8)
> S-750 07 Uppsala, Sweden
> Phone: +46-(0)18-67 15 66
> karli.sjoberg(a)slu.se
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Users mailing list
> Users(a)ovirt.org
> http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/users
>
8:27 p.m.
I should note that pausing the VM's does not seem to be an option or it is
not working. Currently pausing all VM's associated with a particular
storage domain then trying to place that domain into maintenance mode
yields:
"Error while executing action: Cannot deactivate Storage. Active VMs were
detected."
"-Please ensure all VMs associated with this Storage Domain are stopped and
in the Down state first."
This is with engine built from latest master.
- DHC
On Mon, Aug 26, 2013 at 12:08 PM, Dead Horse
<deadhorseconsulting(a)gmail.com>wrote:
Live Migration is possible when the relevant storage server is not
the one
needing to be taken offline for maintenance. Granted a proper Gluster setup
would alleviate that however when optimum performance of file backed
virtual disks is a factor Gluster is not there yet.
- DHC
On Sun, Aug 18, 2013 at 5:47 AM, Ayal Baron <abaron(a)redhat.com> wrote:
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> > Pausing the VM's can work in certain situations for simple maintenance.
> > However suppose the purpose of the storage shutdown is to move data
> around
> > for certain VM's or perhaps change that particular underlying storage
>
> Then why not live migrate the relevant disks?
>
> > filesystem or hardware. Thus some of the VM's will have to be down for
> sure
> > however pausing them all because of the aforementioned would not be an
> > option since it would take hours or days depending on the amount of
> data and
> > the degree of change.
> >
> > - DHC
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Aug 16, 2013 at 12:14 AM, Karli Sjöberg < Karli.Sjoberg(a)slu.se>
> > wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > tor 2013-08-15 klockan 10:46 -0500 skrev Dead Horse:
> >
> >
> > Itamar this is true (I have noted occasional timing issues with it
> actually
> > working).
> > But what if as the administrator I have a specific storage domain in
> mind
> > that I would like to have become the master (in the case of more then
> two)?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > @Karli
> >
> >
> >
> > The idea is not to not have to shut down all the VM's or the engine
> just to
> > maintenance a storage domain(s) that may happen to be on disparate
> storage
> > servers
> > .
> >
> > Yes I understood that. My suggestion was a workaround until such
> operations
> > are possible, that we use to minimize downtime as much as possible, to
> pause
> > the VM's, shut down engine, maintenance, bring engine and VM's back.
> Since
> > the VM's only was paused and engine shut down, the VM's just continue
> going
> > happily unknowing exactly from where they were, and a reboot of a
> storage
> > takes at most 5mins, which means 5mins total of downtime in the cloud
> > environment for that quarter, which is acceptable for just about any
> SLA.
> >
> > /Karli
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > - DHC
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 9:37 AM, Itamar Heim < iheim(a)redhat.com >
> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > On 08/15/2013 06:18 AM, Dead Horse wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Is there any method of designating which domain should be the master
> > storage domain or forcibly changing the role to a different storage
> domain?
> >
> > EG: Given the following example
> >
> > Storage Domain A (Master) --> NFS --> Storage Server 1
> > Storage Domain B --> NFS --> Storage Server 2
> >
> > One wants to do maintenance to Storage Server 1 but in doing so the
> > Master storage domain is hosted from Storage Server 1. Thus the net
> > result of taking down Storage Server 1 is that one must also take down
> > Storage Server 2.
> >
> > Thus we know we must shut down VM's from Storage Domain A to maintenance
> > Storage Server 1. Suppose however that VM's are running that we don't
> > want to shut down and are hosted from Storage Domain B via Storage
> Server 2.
> >
> > We would want to be able to promote Storage Domain B to Master so that
> > we can take down Storage Domain A to do maintenance to Storage Server 1.
> >
> > Once we are done with maintenance to Storage Server 1 we can bring
> > Storage Domain A back on line, re-designate it as Master if desired and
> > bring it's VM's back online.
> >
> > I know I have seen this occur automatically to a point when a Storage
> > Domain goes missing that is the Master Domain but I have not noted any
> > manual method of doing so given the above scenario.
> >
> > - DHC
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Users mailing list
> > Users(a)ovirt.org
> > http://lists.ovirt.org/ mailman/listinfo/users
> >
> >
> > my understanding is you can move the storage domain A which is master to
> > maint. engine will promote storage domain B to master and everything
> should
> > continue working as is.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > Med Vänliga Hälsningar
> >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Karli Sjöberg
> > Swedish University of Agricultural Sciences
> > Box 7079 (Visiting Address Kronåsvägen 8)
> > S-750 07 Uppsala, Sweden
> > Phone: +46-(0)18-67 15 66
> > karli.sjoberg(a)slu.se
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Users mailing list
> > Users(a)ovirt.org
> > http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/users
> >
>
9:12 a.m.
----- Original Message -----
Live Migration is possible when the relevant storage server is not
the one
needing to be taken offline for maintenance. Granted a proper Gluster setup
would alleviate that however when optimum performance of file backed
virtual disks is a factor Gluster is not there yet.
You gave examples where you want to migrate your data and you don't want to kill your
VMs, so I suggested live storage migration, where the VM keeps running on the same host,
but the underlying disk is moved from one storage domain to another.
You basically have 3 options:
1. live storage migration
2. hotunplug the disk (assuming guest supports it and disk interface supports it) - in
case the VM can live without this disk
3. stop the VM
Putting a domain in maintenance while there are paused VMs with disks on this domain is
not implemented in the system.
But going back to your original scenario I think this discussion has shifted quite far
from what you actually want to achieve, so I'd like to revisit that.
First I'll explain what I understood from your original request to make sure that
we're on the same page:
You have 2 storage domains sd1 and sd2.
sd1 is currently master storage domain.
you want to put sd1 in maintenance.
you have running VMs using *sd2* which you do not want to shut down.
For the above scenario (which I hope is what you're aiming for), all you have to do is
stop only the VMs which have disks on *sd1* (or live storage migrate or hotunplug as
explained above) and once that is done just put sd1 in maintenance. In this scenario, the
system will automatically move the master storage domain to be sd2, no downtime for VMs
which don't have disks on sd1.
- DHC
On Sun, Aug 18, 2013 at 5:47 AM, Ayal Baron <abaron(a)redhat.com> wrote:
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> > Pausing the VM's can work in certain situations for simple maintenance.
> > However suppose the purpose of the storage shutdown is to move data
> around
> > for certain VM's or perhaps change that particular underlying storage
>
> Then why not live migrate the relevant disks?
>
> > filesystem or hardware. Thus some of the VM's will have to be down for
> sure
> > however pausing them all because of the aforementioned would not be an
> > option since it would take hours or days depending on the amount of data
> and
> > the degree of change.
> >
> > - DHC
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Aug 16, 2013 at 12:14 AM, Karli Sjöberg < Karli.Sjoberg(a)slu.se >
> > wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > tor 2013-08-15 klockan 10:46 -0500 skrev Dead Horse:
> >
> >
> > Itamar this is true (I have noted occasional timing issues with it
> actually
> > working).
> > But what if as the administrator I have a specific storage domain in mind
> > that I would like to have become the master (in the case of more then
> two)?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > @Karli
> >
> >
> >
> > The idea is not to not have to shut down all the VM's or the engine just
> to
> > maintenance a storage domain(s) that may happen to be on disparate
> storage
> > servers
> > .
> >
> > Yes I understood that. My suggestion was a workaround until such
> operations
> > are possible, that we use to minimize downtime as much as possible, to
> pause
> > the VM's, shut down engine, maintenance, bring engine and VM's back.
> Since
> > the VM's only was paused and engine shut down, the VM's just continue
> going
> > happily unknowing exactly from where they were, and a reboot of a storage
> > takes at most 5mins, which means 5mins total of downtime in the cloud
> > environment for that quarter, which is acceptable for just about any SLA.
> >
> > /Karli
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > - DHC
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 9:37 AM, Itamar Heim < iheim(a)redhat.com > wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > On 08/15/2013 06:18 AM, Dead Horse wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Is there any method of designating which domain should be the master
> > storage domain or forcibly changing the role to a different storage
> domain?
> >
> > EG: Given the following example
> >
> > Storage Domain A (Master) --> NFS --> Storage Server 1
> > Storage Domain B --> NFS --> Storage Server 2
> >
> > One wants to do maintenance to Storage Server 1 but in doing so the
> > Master storage domain is hosted from Storage Server 1. Thus the net
> > result of taking down Storage Server 1 is that one must also take down
> > Storage Server 2.
> >
> > Thus we know we must shut down VM's from Storage Domain A to maintenance
> > Storage Server 1. Suppose however that VM's are running that we don't
> > want to shut down and are hosted from Storage Domain B via Storage
> Server 2.
> >
> > We would want to be able to promote Storage Domain B to Master so that
> > we can take down Storage Domain A to do maintenance to Storage Server 1.
> >
> > Once we are done with maintenance to Storage Server 1 we can bring
> > Storage Domain A back on line, re-designate it as Master if desired and
> > bring it's VM's back online.
> >
> > I know I have seen this occur automatically to a point when a Storage
> > Domain goes missing that is the Master Domain but I have not noted any
> > manual method of doing so given the above scenario.
> >
> > - DHC
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Users mailing list
> > Users(a)ovirt.org
> > http://lists.ovirt.org/ mailman/listinfo/users
> >
> >
> > my understanding is you can move the storage domain A which is master to
> > maint. engine will promote storage domain B to master and everything
> should
> > continue working as is.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > Med Vänliga Hälsningar
> >
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Karli Sjöberg
> > Swedish University of Agricultural Sciences
> > Box 7079 (Visiting Address Kronåsvägen 8)
> > S-750 07 Uppsala, Sweden
> > Phone: +46-(0)18-67 15 66
> > karli.sjoberg(a)slu.se
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Users mailing list
> > Users(a)ovirt.org
> > http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/users
> >
>
4158
days inactive
4171
days old
15 comments
6 participants
participants (6)
-
Ayal Baron -
Dead Horse -
Itamar Heim -
Jim Kinney -
Karli Sjöberg -
Liron Aravot