5:14 p.m.
Hi all,
I have about 100 old VM's in my cluster. They're powered down, ready for
deletion. What I want to do is delete the VM's including disks without
actually deleting the disk images from the storage array itself. Is that
possible? At the end I want to be able to delete the storage domain (which
then should not hold any data, as far as ovirt is concerned).
Reason for this: it's a ZFS pool with dedup enabled, deleting the images
one by one will kill the array with 100% iowa for some time.
--
Met vriendelijke groeten / With kind regards,
Johan Kooijman
9 p.m.
On Sun, Nov 22, 2015 at 6:14 PM, Johan Kooijman <mail(a)johankooijman.com> wrote:
Hi all,
I have about 100 old VM's in my cluster. They're powered down, ready for
deletion. What I want to do is delete the VM's including disks without
actually deleting the disk images from the storage array itself. Is that
possible?
Select the vm, click "remove", in the confirmation dialog, uncheck the
"Delete disks"
checkbox, confirm.
At the end I want to be able to delete the storage domain (which
then should not hold any data, as far as ovirt is concerned).
Ovirt deleted the vms, but is keeping the disks, so the storage domain
does hold all
the disks.
Reason for this: it's a ZFS pool with dedup enabled, deleting the images one
by one will kill the array with 100% iowa for some time.
So what do you need is to destroy the storage domain, which will
remove all the entities
associated with it, but will keep the storage without any change.
Do this:
1. Select the storage tab
2. select the domain
3. In the data center sub tab, click "maintenance"
4. When domain is in maintenance, click "detach"
5. Right click the domain and choose "destroy"
This will remove the storage domain from engine database, leaving
the contents of the domain.
You can now delete the contents using favorite system tools.
Now, if we want to add support for this in ovirt, how would you delete
the entire domain in a more efficient way?
Nir
8:56 a.m.
Hi Nir,
I wonder if it can be made any more efficient, I think this method is clear
enough. The only thing not clear to me was that while deleting the storage
domain, it doesn't touch it's contents.
On Sun, Nov 22, 2015 at 9:00 PM, Nir Soffer <nsoffer(a)redhat.com> wrote:
On Sun, Nov 22, 2015 at 6:14 PM, Johan Kooijman
<mail(a)johankooijman.com>
wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I have about 100 old VM's in my cluster. They're powered down, ready for
> deletion. What I want to do is delete the VM's including disks without
> actually deleting the disk images from the storage array itself. Is that
> possible?
Select the vm, click "remove", in the confirmation dialog, uncheck the
"Delete disks"
checkbox, confirm.
> At the end I want to be able to delete the storage domain (which
> then should not hold any data, as far as ovirt is concerned).
Ovirt deleted the vms, but is keeping the disks, so the storage domain
does hold all
the disks.
>
> Reason for this: it's a ZFS pool with dedup enabled, deleting the images
one
> by one will kill the array with 100% iowa for some time.
So what do you need is to destroy the storage domain, which will
remove all the entities
associated with it, but will keep the storage without any change.
Do this:
1. Select the storage tab
2. select the domain
3. In the data center sub tab, click "maintenance"
4. When domain is in maintenance, click "detach"
5. Right click the domain and choose "destroy"
This will remove the storage domain from engine database, leaving
the contents of the domain.
You can now delete the contents using favorite system tools.
Now, if we want to add support for this in ovirt, how would you delete
the entire domain in a more efficient way?
Nir
--
Met vriendelijke groeten / With kind regards,
Johan Kooijman
9:02 a.m.
mån 2015-11-23 klockan 08:56 +0100 skrev Johan Kooijman:
Hi Nir,
I wonder if it can be made any more efficient, I think this method is
clear enough. The only thing not clear to me was that while deleting
the storage domain, it doesn't touch it's contents.
Perhaps another wording? "Delete" vs. "Remove"?
/K
On Sun, Nov 22, 2015 at 9:00 PM, Nir Soffer <nsoffer(a)redhat.com>
wrote:
On Sun, Nov 22, 2015 at 6:14 PM, Johan Kooijman
<mail(a)johankooijman.com> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I have about 100 old VM's in my cluster. They're powered
down, ready for
> deletion. What I want to do is delete the VM's including
disks without
> actually deleting the disk images from the storage array
itself. Is that
> possible?
Select the vm, click "remove", in the confirmation dialog,
uncheck the
"Delete disks"
checkbox, confirm.
> At the end I want to be able to delete the storage domain
(which
> then should not hold any data, as far as ovirt is
concerned).
Ovirt deleted the vms, but is keeping the disks, so the
storage domain
does hold all
the disks.
>
> Reason for this: it's a ZFS pool with dedup enabled,
deleting the images one
> by one will kill the array with 100% iowa for some time.
So what do you need is to destroy the storage domain, which
will
remove all the entities
associated with it, but will keep the storage without any
change.
Do this:
1. Select the storage tab
2. select the domain
3. In the data center sub tab, click "maintenance"
4. When domain is in maintenance, click "detach"
5. Right click the domain and choose "destroy"
This will remove the storage domain from engine database,
leaving
the contents of the domain.
You can now delete the contents using favorite system tools.
Now, if we want to add support for this in ovirt, how would
you delete
the entire domain in a more efficient way?
Nir
--
Met vriendelijke groeten / With kind regards,
Johan Kooijman
_______________________________________________
Users mailing list
Users(a)ovirt.org
http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/users
9:10 a.m.
One weird thing though: when I try to remove the VM itself, it won't let me
uncheck the "Remove disks" checkbox.
On Sun, Nov 22, 2015 at 9:00 PM, Nir Soffer <nsoffer(a)redhat.com> wrote:
On Sun, Nov 22, 2015 at 6:14 PM, Johan Kooijman
<mail(a)johankooijman.com>
wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I have about 100 old VM's in my cluster. They're powered down, ready for
> deletion. What I want to do is delete the VM's including disks without
> actually deleting the disk images from the storage array itself. Is that
> possible?
Select the vm, click "remove", in the confirmation dialog, uncheck the
"Delete disks"
checkbox, confirm.
> At the end I want to be able to delete the storage domain (which
> then should not hold any data, as far as ovirt is concerned).
Ovirt deleted the vms, but is keeping the disks, so the storage domain
does hold all
the disks.
>
> Reason for this: it's a ZFS pool with dedup enabled, deleting the images
one
> by one will kill the array with 100% iowa for some time.
So what do you need is to destroy the storage domain, which will
remove all the entities
associated with it, but will keep the storage without any change.
Do this:
1. Select the storage tab
2. select the domain
3. In the data center sub tab, click "maintenance"
4. When domain is in maintenance, click "detach"
5. Right click the domain and choose "destroy"
This will remove the storage domain from engine database, leaving
the contents of the domain.
You can now delete the contents using favorite system tools.
Now, if we want to add support for this in ovirt, how would you delete
the entire domain in a more efficient way?
Nir
--
Met vriendelijke groeten / With kind regards,
Johan Kooijman
12:18 p.m.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Johan Kooijman" <mail(a)johankooijman.com>
To: "Nir Soffer" <nsoffer(a)redhat.com>
Cc: "users" <users(a)ovirt.org>
Sent: Monday, November 23, 2015 10:10:27 AM
Subject: Re: [ovirt-users] Delete disk references without deleting the disk
One weird thing though: when I try to remove the VM itself, it won't let me
uncheck the "Remove disks" checkbox.
That is because that there are snapshots for the disks, you can remove the snapshots and
then you could
leave your disks. Currently oVirt doesn't support snapshots for floating disks.
On Sun, Nov 22, 2015 at 9:00 PM, Nir Soffer < nsoffer(a)redhat.com > wrote:
On Sun, Nov 22, 2015 at 6:14 PM, Johan Kooijman < mail(a)johankooijman.com >
wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I have about 100 old VM's in my cluster. They're powered down, ready for
> deletion. What I want to do is delete the VM's including disks without
> actually deleting the disk images from the storage array itself. Is that
> possible?
Select the vm, click "remove", in the confirmation dialog, uncheck the
"Delete disks"
checkbox, confirm.
> At the end I want to be able to delete the storage domain (which
> then should not hold any data, as far as ovirt is concerned).
Ovirt deleted the vms, but is keeping the disks, so the storage domain
does hold all
the disks.
>
> Reason for this: it's a ZFS pool with dedup enabled, deleting the images
> one
> by one will kill the array with 100% iowa for some time.
So what do you need is to destroy the storage domain, which will
remove all the entities
associated with it, but will keep the storage without any change.
Do this:
1. Select the storage tab
2. select the domain
3. In the data center sub tab, click "maintenance"
4. When domain is in maintenance, click "detach"
5. Right click the domain and choose "destroy"
This will remove the storage domain from engine database, leaving
the contents of the domain.
You can now delete the contents using favorite system tools.
Now, if we want to add support for this in ovirt, how would you delete
the entire domain in a more efficient way?
Nir
--
Met vriendelijke groeten / With kind regards,
Johan Kooijman
_______________________________________________
Users mailing list
Users(a)ovirt.org
http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/users
12:46 p.m.
Ok. Any way to do it without? Because with snapshot deletion I end up with
the same issue - I can't remove images form my storage.
On Mon, Nov 23, 2015 at 12:18 PM, Liron Aravot <laravot(a)redhat.com> wrote:
----- Original Message -----
> From: "Johan Kooijman" <mail(a)johankooijman.com>
> To: "Nir Soffer" <nsoffer(a)redhat.com>
> Cc: "users" <users(a)ovirt.org>
> Sent: Monday, November 23, 2015 10:10:27 AM
> Subject: Re: [ovirt-users] Delete disk references without deleting the
disk
>
> One weird thing though: when I try to remove the VM itself, it won't let
me
> uncheck the "Remove disks" checkbox.
>
That is because that there are snapshots for the disks, you can remove the
snapshots and then you could
leave your disks. Currently oVirt doesn't support snapshots for floating
disks.
>
> On Sun, Nov 22, 2015 at 9:00 PM, Nir Soffer < nsoffer(a)redhat.com >
wrote:
>
>
> On Sun, Nov 22, 2015 at 6:14 PM, Johan Kooijman < mail(a)johankooijman.com
>
> wrote:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I have about 100 old VM's in my cluster. They're powered down, ready
for
> > deletion. What I want to do is delete the VM's including disks without
> > actually deleting the disk images from the storage array itself. Is
that
> > possible?
>
> Select the vm, click "remove", in the confirmation dialog, uncheck the
> "Delete disks"
> checkbox, confirm.
>
> > At the end I want to be able to delete the storage domain (which
> > then should not hold any data, as far as ovirt is concerned).
>
> Ovirt deleted the vms, but is keeping the disks, so the storage domain
> does hold all
> the disks.
>
> >
> > Reason for this: it's a ZFS pool with dedup enabled, deleting the
images
> > one
> > by one will kill the array with 100% iowa for some time.
>
> So what do you need is to destroy the storage domain, which will
> remove all the entities
> associated with it, but will keep the storage without any change.
>
> Do this:
> 1. Select the storage tab
> 2. select the domain
> 3. In the data center sub tab, click "maintenance"
> 4. When domain is in maintenance, click "detach"
> 5. Right click the domain and choose "destroy"
>
> This will remove the storage domain from engine database, leaving
> the contents of the domain.
>
> You can now delete the contents using favorite system tools.
>
> Now, if we want to add support for this in ovirt, how would you delete
> the entire domain in a more efficient way?
>
> Nir
>
>
>
> --
> Met vriendelijke groeten / With kind regards,
> Johan Kooijman
>
> _______________________________________________
> Users mailing list
> Users(a)ovirt.org
> http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/users
>
--
Met vriendelijke groeten / With kind regards,
Johan Kooijman
5:52 p.m.
When I deactivate the disk on a VM, I can click remove. It then offers me
the dialog te remove it with a checkbox "Remove permanently". I don't check
that, the disk will be deleted from inventory, but won't be deleted from
storage domain?
Can't try for myself, it'll kill my storage domain.
On Mon, Nov 23, 2015 at 12:46 PM, Johan Kooijman <mail(a)johankooijman.com>
wrote:
Ok. Any way to do it without? Because with snapshot deletion I end up
with
the same issue - I can't remove images form my storage.
On Mon, Nov 23, 2015 at 12:18 PM, Liron Aravot <laravot(a)redhat.com> wrote:
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Johan Kooijman" <mail(a)johankooijman.com>
> > To: "Nir Soffer" <nsoffer(a)redhat.com>
> > Cc: "users" <users(a)ovirt.org>
> > Sent: Monday, November 23, 2015 10:10:27 AM
> > Subject: Re: [ovirt-users] Delete disk references without deleting the
> disk
> >
> > One weird thing though: when I try to remove the VM itself, it won't
> let me
> > uncheck the "Remove disks" checkbox.
> >
>
> That is because that there are snapshots for the disks, you can remove
> the snapshots and then you could
> leave your disks. Currently oVirt doesn't support snapshots for floating
> disks.
> >
> > On Sun, Nov 22, 2015 at 9:00 PM, Nir Soffer < nsoffer(a)redhat.com >
> wrote:
> >
> >
> > On Sun, Nov 22, 2015 at 6:14 PM, Johan Kooijman <
> mail(a)johankooijman.com >
> > wrote:
> > > Hi all,
> > >
> > > I have about 100 old VM's in my cluster. They're powered down,
ready
> for
> > > deletion. What I want to do is delete the VM's including disks without
> > > actually deleting the disk images from the storage array itself. Is
> that
> > > possible?
> >
> > Select the vm, click "remove", in the confirmation dialog, uncheck
the
> > "Delete disks"
> > checkbox, confirm.
> >
> > > At the end I want to be able to delete the storage domain (which
> > > then should not hold any data, as far as ovirt is concerned).
> >
> > Ovirt deleted the vms, but is keeping the disks, so the storage domain
> > does hold all
> > the disks.
> >
> > >
> > > Reason for this: it's a ZFS pool with dedup enabled, deleting the
> images
> > > one
> > > by one will kill the array with 100% iowa for some time.
> >
> > So what do you need is to destroy the storage domain, which will
> > remove all the entities
> > associated with it, but will keep the storage without any change.
> >
> > Do this:
> > 1. Select the storage tab
> > 2. select the domain
> > 3. In the data center sub tab, click "maintenance"
> > 4. When domain is in maintenance, click "detach"
> > 5. Right click the domain and choose "destroy"
> >
> > This will remove the storage domain from engine database, leaving
> > the contents of the domain.
> >
> > You can now delete the contents using favorite system tools.
> >
> > Now, if we want to add support for this in ovirt, how would you delete
> > the entire domain in a more efficient way?
> >
> > Nir
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Met vriendelijke groeten / With kind regards,
> > Johan Kooijman
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Users mailing list
> > Users(a)ovirt.org
> > http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/users
> >
>
--
Met vriendelijke groeten / With kind regards,
Johan Kooijman
--
Met vriendelijke groeten / With kind regards,
Johan Kooijman
8:54 a.m.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Johan Kooijman" <mail(a)johankooijman.com>
To: "Liron Aravot" <laravot(a)redhat.com>
Cc: "Nir Soffer" <nsoffer(a)redhat.com>, "users"
<users(a)ovirt.org>
Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2015 6:52:51 PM
Subject: Re: [ovirt-users] Delete disk references without deleting the disk
When I deactivate the disk on a VM, I can click remove. It then offers me
the dialog te remove it with a checkbox "Remove permanently". I don't
check
that, the disk will be deleted from inventory, but won't be deleted from
storage domain?
Can't try for myself, it'll kill my storage domain.
Yes, when you do that the disk will remain "floating" (you'll be able to see
it under the
Disks tab) and you'll be able to attach it to another vm later on.
On Mon, Nov 23, 2015 at 12:46 PM, Johan Kooijman <mail(a)johankooijman.com>
wrote:
> Ok. Any way to do it without? Because with snapshot deletion I end up with
> the same issue - I can't remove images form my storage.
>
> On Mon, Nov 23, 2015 at 12:18 PM, Liron Aravot <laravot(a)redhat.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: "Johan Kooijman" <mail(a)johankooijman.com>
>> > To: "Nir Soffer" <nsoffer(a)redhat.com>
>> > Cc: "users" <users(a)ovirt.org>
>> > Sent: Monday, November 23, 2015 10:10:27 AM
>> > Subject: Re: [ovirt-users] Delete disk references without deleting the
>> disk
>> >
>> > One weird thing though: when I try to remove the VM itself, it won't
>> let me
>> > uncheck the "Remove disks" checkbox.
>> >
>>
>> That is because that there are snapshots for the disks, you can remove
>> the snapshots and then you could
>> leave your disks. Currently oVirt doesn't support snapshots for floating
>> disks.
>> >
>> > On Sun, Nov 22, 2015 at 9:00 PM, Nir Soffer < nsoffer(a)redhat.com >
>> wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> > On Sun, Nov 22, 2015 at 6:14 PM, Johan Kooijman <
>> mail(a)johankooijman.com >
>> > wrote:
>> > > Hi all,
>> > >
>> > > I have about 100 old VM's in my cluster. They're powered down,
ready
>> for
>> > > deletion. What I want to do is delete the VM's including disks
without
>> > > actually deleting the disk images from the storage array itself. Is
>> that
>> > > possible?
>> >
>> > Select the vm, click "remove", in the confirmation dialog,
uncheck the
>> > "Delete disks"
>> > checkbox, confirm.
>> >
>> > > At the end I want to be able to delete the storage domain (which
>> > > then should not hold any data, as far as ovirt is concerned).
>> >
>> > Ovirt deleted the vms, but is keeping the disks, so the storage domain
>> > does hold all
>> > the disks.
>> >
>> > >
>> > > Reason for this: it's a ZFS pool with dedup enabled, deleting the
>> images
>> > > one
>> > > by one will kill the array with 100% iowa for some time.
>> >
>> > So what do you need is to destroy the storage domain, which will
>> > remove all the entities
>> > associated with it, but will keep the storage without any change.
>> >
>> > Do this:
>> > 1. Select the storage tab
>> > 2. select the domain
>> > 3. In the data center sub tab, click "maintenance"
>> > 4. When domain is in maintenance, click "detach"
>> > 5. Right click the domain and choose "destroy"
>> >
>> > This will remove the storage domain from engine database, leaving
>> > the contents of the domain.
>> >
>> > You can now delete the contents using favorite system tools.
>> >
>> > Now, if we want to add support for this in ovirt, how would you delete
>> > the entire domain in a more efficient way?
>> >
>> > Nir
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Met vriendelijke groeten / With kind regards,
>> > Johan Kooijman
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Users mailing list
>> > Users(a)ovirt.org
>> > http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/users
>> >
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Met vriendelijke groeten / With kind regards,
> Johan Kooijman
>
--
Met vriendelijke groeten / With kind regards,
Johan Kooijman
5:14 p.m.
Hi all,
Responding to an old thread - but I'm having an issue with this. I can't
remove the disk from a VM, without deleting a snapshot. Since deleting
contents on my storage domain will crash it (long story..), I need to find
a way to remove it from ovirt inventory without deleting the image files on
disk.
- Can't delete the VM and uncheck "Remove disks", due to snapshots present;
- Can't delete the disk without permanently deleting it, due to snapshots
present;
Are there any other options? What will happen if I put the storage domain
in maintenance and destroy the entire storage domain? Is that even possible
when VM's have disks associated to it that live on this storage domain?
On Wed, Nov 25, 2015 at 8:54 AM, Liron Aravot <laravot(a)redhat.com> wrote:
----- Original Message -----
> From: "Johan Kooijman" <mail(a)johankooijman.com>
> To: "Liron Aravot" <laravot(a)redhat.com>
> Cc: "Nir Soffer" <nsoffer(a)redhat.com>, "users"
<users(a)ovirt.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2015 6:52:51 PM
> Subject: Re: [ovirt-users] Delete disk references without deleting the
disk
>
> When I deactivate the disk on a VM, I can click remove. It then offers me
> the dialog te remove it with a checkbox "Remove permanently". I don't
check
> that, the disk will be deleted from inventory, but won't be deleted from
> storage domain?
> Can't try for myself, it'll kill my storage domain.
Yes, when you do that the disk will remain "floating" (you'll be able to
see it under the
Disks tab) and you'll be able to attach it to another vm later on.
>
> On Mon, Nov 23, 2015 at 12:46 PM, Johan Kooijman <mail(a)johankooijman.com
>
> wrote:
>
> > Ok. Any way to do it without? Because with snapshot deletion I end up
with
> > the same issue - I can't remove images form my storage.
> >
> > On Mon, Nov 23, 2015 at 12:18 PM, Liron Aravot <laravot(a)redhat.com>
wrote:
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> > From: "Johan Kooijman" <mail(a)johankooijman.com>
> >> > To: "Nir Soffer" <nsoffer(a)redhat.com>
> >> > Cc: "users" <users(a)ovirt.org>
> >> > Sent: Monday, November 23, 2015 10:10:27 AM
> >> > Subject: Re: [ovirt-users] Delete disk references without deleting
the
> >> disk
> >> >
> >> > One weird thing though: when I try to remove the VM itself, it
won't
> >> let me
> >> > uncheck the "Remove disks" checkbox.
> >> >
> >>
> >> That is because that there are snapshots for the disks, you can remove
> >> the snapshots and then you could
> >> leave your disks. Currently oVirt doesn't support snapshots for
floating
> >> disks.
> >> >
> >> > On Sun, Nov 22, 2015 at 9:00 PM, Nir Soffer < nsoffer(a)redhat.com
>
> >> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > On Sun, Nov 22, 2015 at 6:14 PM, Johan Kooijman <
> >> mail(a)johankooijman.com >
> >> > wrote:
> >> > > Hi all,
> >> > >
> >> > > I have about 100 old VM's in my cluster. They're powered
down,
ready
> >> for
> >> > > deletion. What I want to do is delete the VM's including
disks
without
> >> > > actually deleting the disk images from the storage array itself.
Is
> >> that
> >> > > possible?
> >> >
> >> > Select the vm, click "remove", in the confirmation dialog,
uncheck
the
> >> > "Delete disks"
> >> > checkbox, confirm.
> >> >
> >> > > At the end I want to be able to delete the storage domain (which
> >> > > then should not hold any data, as far as ovirt is concerned).
> >> >
> >> > Ovirt deleted the vms, but is keeping the disks, so the storage
domain
> >> > does hold all
> >> > the disks.
> >> >
> >> > >
> >> > > Reason for this: it's a ZFS pool with dedup enabled, deleting
the
> >> images
> >> > > one
> >> > > by one will kill the array with 100% iowa for some time.
> >> >
> >> > So what do you need is to destroy the storage domain, which will
> >> > remove all the entities
> >> > associated with it, but will keep the storage without any change.
> >> >
> >> > Do this:
> >> > 1. Select the storage tab
> >> > 2. select the domain
> >> > 3. In the data center sub tab, click "maintenance"
> >> > 4. When domain is in maintenance, click "detach"
> >> > 5. Right click the domain and choose "destroy"
> >> >
> >> > This will remove the storage domain from engine database, leaving
> >> > the contents of the domain.
> >> >
> >> > You can now delete the contents using favorite system tools.
> >> >
> >> > Now, if we want to add support for this in ovirt, how would you
delete
> >> > the entire domain in a more efficient way?
> >> >
> >> > Nir
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > Met vriendelijke groeten / With kind regards,
> >> > Johan Kooijman
> >> >
> >> > _______________________________________________
> >> > Users mailing list
> >> > Users(a)ovirt.org
> >> > http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/users
> >> >
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Met vriendelijke groeten / With kind regards,
> > Johan Kooijman
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Met vriendelijke groeten / With kind regards,
> Johan Kooijman
>
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Met vriendelijke groeten / With kind regards,
Johan Kooijman
3124
days inactive
3169
days old
9 comments
4 participants
participants (4)
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Johan Kooijman -
Karli Sjöberg -
Liron Aravot -
Nir Soffer