Is there a plan for ovirt 4.5 and furture versions?
We know that at this time of the past years, the beta version of the new ovirt version has been released, but this year there is still no news about ovirt 4.5. Red Hat has announced last year that ovirt and openstack will be integrated with openshift in the future. So, will there be ovirt 4.5 or ovirt 4.6? Is it worth building a new virtualization platform based on ovirt? https://www.redhat.com/es/blog/future-open-virtualization-here
Sorry to give a wrong link. The correct link is: https://www.openshift.com/blog/blog-openshift-virtualization-whats-new-with-...
Il giorno lun 25 gen 2021 alle ore 09:26 Flashbang <flerxu@gmail.com> ha scritto:
We know that at this time of the past years, the beta version of the new ovirt version has been released, but this year there is still no news about ovirt 4.5. Red Hat has announced last year that ovirt and openstack will be integrated with openshift in the future. So, will there be ovirt 4.5 or ovirt 4.6? Is it worth building a new virtualization platform based on ovirt?
Il giorno lun 25 gen 2021 alle ore 09:37 Flashbang <flerxu@gmail.com> ha scritto:
Sorry to give a wrong link. The correct link is:
https://www.openshift.com/blog/blog-openshift-virtualization-whats-new-with-... _______________________________________________
The article you cited, https://www.openshift.com/blog/blog-openshift-virtualization-whats-new-with-... describes the plans for Red Hat Virtualization product and its path going forward toward OpenShift Virtualization product. As a product, Red Hat Virtualization has a different lifecycle than oVirt which is a community project. Regarding the oVirt project, back on the beginning of oVirt 4.4 we switched the development model by introducing new non-substantial features directly within 4.4 maintenance releases. So, right now we're missing substantial features to be planned to justify a new 4.5 version. You're welcome to join and contribute to help shaping the project's roadmap. About your second question, it depends on what your use case is. oVirt is still providing the enterprise scale virtualization platform solution it is known for and currently there's no change in the Red Hat's support of the oVirt project. -- Sandro Bonazzola MANAGER, SOFTWARE ENGINEERING, EMEA R&D RHV Red Hat EMEA <https://www.redhat.com/> sbonazzo@redhat.com <https://www.redhat.com/> *Red Hat respects your work life balance. Therefore there is no need to answer this email out of your office hours.*
To your question "Is it worth building a new virtualization platform based on ovirt?" Sandro answered "currently there's no change in the Red Hat's support of the oVirt project". That may technically be true, but it doesn't really answer your question, I'd believe. oVirt is a management layer which has carried the motto "oVirt is a free open-source virtualization solution for your entire enterprise" on its head page for years. In my experience oVirt hasn't been nearly ready and stable enough to run an enterprise workload, unless you are ready to maintain a fully redundant team of engineers to do QA on all your use cases. The CentOS base, however, has been enterprise quality, just as good as RHEL without the extra hassle of registration servers: I don't think we ever rolled back an update in over 10 years because it broke any of our workloads. And that was including OpenVZ on dozens of machines and thousands of containers. With oVirt 4.3 and CentOS 7 you knew which part you could trust and where to look for errors (I found more than I believed possible). With the de-facto elimination of CentOS as a functional RHEL clone, oVirt 4.4 becomes upstream-on-upstream and you know how fault probabilities don't add but *multiply* when you combine them. With that you now need three QA teams, one for CentOS-Stream, one for oVirt and another for the integration. Not even oVirt 4.4 on RHEL 8 will be a proper choice, because that combination is also no longer a part of what little test automation oVirt receives. Only RHV on RHEL will be properly tested and CentOS/oVirt as a dev/QA/home/hobby ramp to RHV/RHEL is lost. And CentOS 8 seems to decay before they even switch to upstream. I've just done an update on my single-node HCI oVirt 4.4 infrastructure the other day, which installed a new kernel on the host (4.18.0-240.10.1.el8_3 vs. 4.18.0-193.19.1.el8_2). It turns out that kernel broke VDO because of kernel/library mismatch caused by repository issues you'd need to manually resolve, while VDO is a key ingredient to the HCI stack (error #1). VDO is still treated as an "external" contribution I don't know how many years after the aquisition. So on top of the mismatching userland and kernel versions, the VDO module isn't signed (error #2), which can throw a wrench in your system if e.g. after a BIOS update your system is reset to secure boot. Error #1 should show on RHEL, too, unless CentOS is no longer downstream of RHEL already, while error #2 indicates that the CentOS process is broken because VDO is only signed for RHEL. In other words, the "enterprise quality" of CentOS is already going up in smoke, while CentOS8 isn't yet officially dead. I might count myself lucky, that I haven't done the oVirt 4.4 migration of my HCI clusters yet, mostly beacuse it's far from seamless, extremely risky and very disruptive. Now I just won't do that because oVirt 4.4/CentOS 8 is EOL this year, while CentOS 7 still has a couple of years left. By then, I'll hopefully have found a new home for the non-production workloads I manage. My hope of replacing the VMware production environment with a combination of oVirt and RHV has been erased: My confidence that IBM will let oVirt will survive another ten years is practically zero. Redhat should know that nothing is as important as the size of the user base for software to survive. oVirt/RHV's biggest chance would lie in everybody building their home clusters using 3-node HCI running on Raspberry PI 4 nodes or Atoms... with seamless K8 integration.
We have been using RHV for 8 years and the platform is getting better and better, It is disappointed that IBM will quit and exit.
Il giorno mar 26 gen 2021 alle ore 02:36 Flashbang <flerxu@gmail.com> ha scritto:
We have been using RHV for 8 years and the platform is getting better and better, It is disappointed that IBM will quit and exit.
I just want to point out that IBM has nothing to do with oVirt lifecycle. IBM used to be in oVirt Board for several years but right now the oVirt Board is composed by Red Hat and Caltech representatives.
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-- Sandro Bonazzola MANAGER, SOFTWARE ENGINEERING, EMEA R&D RHV Red Hat EMEA <https://www.redhat.com/> sbonazzo@redhat.com <https://www.redhat.com/> *Red Hat respects your work life balance. Therefore there is no need to answer this email out of your office hours. <https://mojo.redhat.com/docs/DOC-1199578>*
Il giorno lun 25 gen 2021 alle ore 20:00 Thomas Hoberg <thomas@hoberg.net> ha scritto:
To your question "Is it worth building a new virtualization platform based on ovirt?" Sandro answered "currently there's no change in the Red Hat's support of the oVirt project".
That may technically be true, but it doesn't really answer your question, I'd believe.
oVirt is a management layer which has carried the motto "oVirt is a free open-source virtualization solution for your entire enterprise" on its head page for years.
In my experience oVirt hasn't been nearly ready and stable enough to run an enterprise workload, unless you are ready to maintain a fully redundant team of engineers to do QA on all your use cases.
The CentOS base, however, has been enterprise quality, just as good as RHEL without the extra hassle of registration servers: I don't think we ever rolled back an update in over 10 years because it broke any of our workloads. And that was including OpenVZ on dozens of machines and thousands of containers.
With oVirt 4.3 and CentOS 7 you knew which part you could trust and where to look for errors (I found more than I believed possible).
With the de-facto elimination of CentOS as a functional RHEL clone, oVirt 4.4 becomes upstream-on-upstream and you know how fault probabilities don't add but *multiply* when you combine them.
With that you now need three QA teams, one for CentOS-Stream, one for oVirt and another for the integration.
Not even oVirt 4.4 on RHEL 8 will be a proper choice, because that combination is also no longer a part of what little test automation oVirt receives.
We expect CentOS Stream to be the preferred upstream platform on which oVirt should be run but I don't see why it shouldn't run on RHEL or on any RHEL rebuild.
Only RHV on RHEL will be properly tested and CentOS/oVirt as a dev/QA/home/hobby ramp to RHV/RHEL is lost.
And CentOS 8 seems to decay before they even switch to upstream. I've just done an update on my single-node HCI oVirt 4.4 infrastructure the other day, which installed a new kernel on the host (4.18.0-240.10.1.el8_3 vs. 4.18.0-193.19.1.el8_2). It turns out that kernel broke VDO because of kernel/library mismatch caused by repository issues you'd need to manually resolve, while VDO is a key ingredient to the HCI stack (error #1). VDO is still treated as an "external" contribution I don't know how many years after the aquisition. So on top of the mismatching userland and kernel versions, the VDO module isn't signed (error #2), which can throw a wrench in your system if e.g. after a BIOS update your system is reset to secure boot.
Error #1 should show on RHEL, too, unless CentOS is no longer downstream of RHEL already, while error #2 indicates that the CentOS process is broken because VDO is only signed for RHEL.
In other words, the "enterprise quality" of CentOS is already going up in smoke, while CentOS8 isn't yet officially dead.
I might count myself lucky, that I haven't done the oVirt 4.4 migration of my HCI clusters yet, mostly beacuse it's far from seamless, extremely risky and very disruptive.
Now I just won't do that because oVirt 4.4/CentOS 8 is EOL this year, while CentOS 7 still has a couple of years left. By then, I'll hopefully have found a new home for the non-production workloads I manage.
My hope of replacing the VMware production environment with a combination of oVirt and RHV has been erased: My confidence that IBM will let oVirt will survive another ten years is practically zero.
oVirt is a community project which already has several forks and downstreams. Whatever may or may not happen in ten years, nothing will prevent the community to keep oVirt project going on as for any other community opensource project.
Redhat should know that nothing is as important as the size of the user base for software to survive. oVirt/RHV's biggest chance would lie in everybody building their home clusters using 3-node HCI running on Raspberry PI 4 nodes or Atoms... with seamless K8 integration.
OpenEuler Virtualization SIG was working on this, and contributions to make this happen are welcome. I would be happy to see oVirt running on RPI4 or Atoms.
_______________________________________________ Users mailing list -- users@ovirt.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave@ovirt.org Privacy Statement: https://www.ovirt.org/privacy-policy.html oVirt Code of Conduct: https://www.ovirt.org/community/about/community-guidelines/ List Archives: https://lists.ovirt.org/archives/list/users@ovirt.org/message/DUCWZ6N34ZMOWR...
-- Sandro Bonazzola MANAGER, SOFTWARE ENGINEERING, EMEA R&D RHV Red Hat EMEA <https://www.redhat.com/> sbonazzo@redhat.com <https://www.redhat.com/> *Red Hat respects your work life balance. Therefore there is no need to answer this email out of your office hours.*
On 26. 1. 2021, at 9:04, Sandro Bonazzola <sbonazzo@redhat.com> wrote:
Il giorno lun 25 gen 2021 alle ore 20:00 Thomas Hoberg <thomas@hoberg.net <mailto:thomas@hoberg.net>> ha scritto: To your question "Is it worth building a new virtualization platform based on ovirt?" Sandro answered "currently there's no change in the Red Hat's support of the oVirt project".
That may technically be true, but it doesn't really answer your question, I'd believe.
oVirt is a management layer which has carried the motto "oVirt is a free open-source virtualization solution for your entire enterprise" on its head page for years.
In my experience oVirt hasn't been nearly ready and stable enough to run an enterprise workload, unless you are ready to maintain a fully redundant team of engineers to do QA on all your use cases.
The CentOS base, however, has been enterprise quality, just as good as RHEL without the extra hassle of registration servers: I don't think we ever rolled back an update in over 10 years because it broke any of our workloads. And that was including OpenVZ on dozens of machines and thousands of containers.
With oVirt 4.3 and CentOS 7 you knew which part you could trust and where to look for errors (I found more than I believed possible).
With the de-facto elimination of CentOS as a functional RHEL clone, oVirt 4.4 becomes upstream-on-upstream and you know how fault probabilities don't add but *multiply* when you combine them.
With that you now need three QA teams, one for CentOS-Stream, one for oVirt and another for the integration.
Not even oVirt 4.4 on RHEL 8 will be a proper choice, because that combination is also no longer a part of what little test automation oVirt receives.
Specifically to this point - we never had any automation on RHEL, oVirt was never tested on it, and it didn’t work at all due to openvswitch dependencies for better half of past year. That is something we may add if there are any changes in RHEL licensing which would allow us to run it for free on our CI infrastructure. For now Centos 8 and Stream are the only things that are feasible for our CI, if a good RHEL clone emerges we would very likely add it. But oVirt heavily depends on other projects so we can’t do it on our own.
We expect CentOS Stream to be the preferred upstream platform on which oVirt should be run but I don't see why it shouldn't run on RHEL or on any RHEL rebuild.
Only RHV on RHEL will be properly tested and CentOS/oVirt as a dev/QA/home/hobby ramp to RHV/RHEL is lost.
And CentOS 8 seems to decay before they even switch to upstream. I've just done an update on my single-node HCI oVirt 4.4 infrastructure the other day, which installed a new kernel on the host (4.18.0-240.10.1.el8_3 vs. 4.18.0-193.19.1.el8_2). It turns out that kernel broke VDO because of kernel/library mismatch caused by repository issues you'd need to manually resolve, while VDO is a key ingredient to the HCI stack (error #1). VDO is still treated as an "external" contribution I don't know how many years after the aquisition. So on top of the mismatching userland and kernel versions, the VDO module isn't signed (error #2), which can throw a wrench in your system if e.g. after a BIOS update your system is reset to secure boot.
Error #1 should show on RHEL, too, unless CentOS is no longer downstream of RHEL already, while error #2 indicates that the CentOS process is broken because VDO is only signed for RHEL.
In other words, the "enterprise quality" of CentOS is already going up in smoke, while CentOS8 isn't yet officially dead.
I might count myself lucky, that I haven't done the oVirt 4.4 migration of my HCI clusters yet, mostly beacuse it's far from seamless, extremely risky and very disruptive.
While oVirt and Gluster have a great integration for many years now, for better or worse Gluster is a completely separate project and with that it is really another level of integration fo these two things together.
Now I just won't do that because oVirt 4.4/CentOS 8 is EOL this year, while CentOS 7 still has a couple of years left. By then, I'll hopefully have found a new home for the non-production workloads I manage.
My hope of replacing the VMware production environment with a combination of oVirt and RHV has been erased: My confidence that IBM will let oVirt will survive another ten years is practically zero.
oVirt is a community project which already has several forks and downstreams. Whatever may or may not happen in ten years, nothing will prevent the community to keep oVirt project going on as for any other community opensource project.
Redhat should know that nothing is as important as the size of the user base for software to survive. oVirt/RHV's biggest chance would lie in everybody building their home clusters using 3-node HCI running on Raspberry PI 4 nodes or Atoms... with seamless K8 integration.
OpenEuler Virtualization SIG was working on this, and contributions to make this happen are welcome. I would be happy to see oVirt running on RPI4 or Atoms.
_______________________________________________ Users mailing list -- users@ovirt.org <mailto:users@ovirt.org> To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave@ovirt.org <mailto:users-leave@ovirt.org> Privacy Statement: https://www.ovirt.org/privacy-policy.html <https://www.ovirt.org/privacy-policy.html> oVirt Code of Conduct: https://www.ovirt.org/community/about/community-guidelines/ <https://www.ovirt.org/community/about/community-guidelines/> List Archives: https://lists.ovirt.org/archives/list/users@ovirt.org/message/DUCWZ6N34ZMOWR... <https://lists.ovirt.org/archives/list/users@ovirt.org/message/DUCWZ6N34ZMOWR5EVWIRHLQEHVSWH6NX/>
-- Sandro Bonazzola MANAGER, SOFTWARE ENGINEERING, EMEA R&D RHV Red Hat EMEA <https://www.redhat.com/> sbonazzo@redhat.com <mailto:sbonazzo@redhat.com> <https://www.redhat.com/> Red Hat respects your work life balance. Therefore there is no need to answer this email out of your office hours.
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In fact, our core production environment has been using redhat virtualization since 2015, and upgrading from rhev 3.3 to rhv4.3 all the way, the platform is getting better and better. But the guys at Red Hat have been reluctant to tell us whether redhat virtualization will continue. I have tried kubevirt on openshift, and it is obviously far from an enterprise product. So it is disappointed to hear that ovirt will stay at version 4.4, which means it will gradually die.
Il giorno mar 26 gen 2021 alle ore 02:30 Flashbang <flerxu@gmail.com> ha scritto:
In fact, our core production environment has been using redhat virtualization since 2015, and upgrading from rhev 3.3 to rhv4.3 all the way, the platform is getting better and better.
But the guys at Red Hat have been reluctant to tell us whether redhat virtualization will continue. I have tried kubevirt on openshift, and it is obviously far from an enterprise product.
So it is disappointed to hear that ovirt will stay at version 4.4, which means it will gradually die.
As said in previous reply, right now we're missing substantial features to be planned to justify a new 4.5 version. You're welcome to join and contribute to help shaping the project's roadmap.
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-- Sandro Bonazzola MANAGER, SOFTWARE ENGINEERING, EMEA R&D RHV Red Hat EMEA <https://www.redhat.com/> sbonazzo@redhat.com <https://www.redhat.com/> *Red Hat respects your work life balance. Therefore there is no need to answer this email out of your office hours. <https://mojo.redhat.com/docs/DOC-1199578>*
On 26. 1. 2021, at 8:48, Sandro Bonazzola <sbonazzo@redhat.com> wrote:
Il giorno mar 26 gen 2021 alle ore 02:30 Flashbang <flerxu@gmail.com <mailto:flerxu@gmail.com>> ha scritto:
In fact, our core production environment has been using redhat virtualization since 2015, and upgrading from rhev 3.3 to rhv4.3 all the way, the platform is getting better and better.
But the guys at Red Hat have been reluctant to tell us whether redhat virtualization will continue. I have tried kubevirt on openshift, and it is obviously far from an enterprise product.
So it is disappointed to hear that ovirt will stay at version 4.4, which means it will gradually die.
As said in previous reply, right now we're missing substantial features to be planned to justify a new 4.5 version.
As I’ve shared some months ago, we shifted towards a continuous “zstream” improvements in 4.4.z rather than a big bang version we used to do. Main reason was the planning for next release was always a challenging task. It took a year for a feature to get into a GA version and since those plans rarely survived, we always ended up with different content than we planned anyway, and much later than we wanted. For introduction of bigger features or breaking changes we always had the concept of cluster compatibility levels (and we introduced a 4.5 in 4.4.3, and probably a 4.6 in future), and with better CI…. we just believe that there’s no need for 9+ months release cycle. Thanks, michal
You're welcome to join and contribute to help shaping the project's roadmap.
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-- Sandro Bonazzola MANAGER, SOFTWARE ENGINEERING, EMEA R&D RHV Red Hat EMEA <https://www.redhat.com/> sbonazzo@redhat.com <mailto:sbonazzo@redhat.com> <https://www.redhat.com/> Red Hat respects your work life balance. Therefore there is no need to answer this email out of your office hours. <https://mojo.redhat.com/docs/DOC-1199578>
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participants (4)
-
Flashbang -
Michal Skrivanek -
Sandro Bonazzola -
Thomas Hoberg