What prevents from using a very very low-end hardware for manager?
Hi, I'd like to setup another oVirt TEST datacenter, and amongst the machines I may use, I'd like to dedicate the best ones to the hosts, and the worst to the manager. I don't want to use hosting. I really don't mind if it takes me two hours by click in the java/html web GUI. What could be really BLOCKING using a server with few memory and a CPU from previous century? -- Nicolas Ecarnot
--=-ENdjJtal/bVpT+5wI2EM Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello Nicolas, I still consider myself new to oVirt but since I faced the same question during my initial research I try to answer. Major Block: AFAIK there are no i686 builds of oVirt, they make no sense anyway. So you will need a 64bit machine wich rules out any of the very old stuff. Minor blocks: You should keep in mind the 4GB min memory requirement for oVirt engine. Better go for 8GB in a bare metal system if you like to have more headroom for future upgrades. The processing power is of no major concern it seems. I have a single virtual CPU@2.5GHz allocated, witch is fine. Also, the minimum disk space requirements with 25GB are pretty low. In the end I decided for Hosted Engine. IMHO this is "the future" anyway and you have much better cost effectiveness in any area. Also I decided *not* to use older hardware because of power consumption. Old computers tend to use a lot of power (DDR2 RAM esp.). Since the engine runs 24/7 a new server will most likely save the initial costs in less then one year. If you want to use a bare metal system, I'd recommend a new low power system with a Celeron or Atom processor. They will even be quite cheap. Also, I have seen interesting proposals using Intel NUC's as basis for a two node engine cluser:=20 On Fr, 2014-06-20 at 11:43 +0200, Nicolas Ecarnot wrote:
Hi, =20 I'd like to setup another oVirt TEST datacenter, and amongst the=20 machines I may use, I'd like to dedicate the best ones to the hosts, and= =20 the worst to the manager. I don't want to use hosting. =20 I really don't mind if it takes me two hours by click in the java/html= =20 web GUI. =20 What could be really BLOCKING using a server with few memory and a CPU= =20 from previous century? =20
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Am 20.06.2014 12:15, schrieb Daniel Helgenberger:
You should keep in mind the 4GB min memory requirement for oVirt engine. Better go for 8GB in a bare metal system if you like to have more headroom for future upgrades.
There is ongoing discussion on this ML and in some BZs why this requirement is stated. So far I do not know of any real world installation which utilizes 4 GB RAM for ovirt. Do you happen do run such an instance? If yes, could you share how many vms etc you host on this environment? -- Mit freundlichen Grüßen / Regards Sven Kieske Systemadministrator Mittwald CM Service GmbH & Co. KG Königsberger Straße 6 32339 Espelkamp T: +49-5772-293-100 F: +49-5772-293-333 https://www.mittwald.de Geschäftsführer: Robert Meyer St.Nr.: 331/5721/1033, USt-IdNr.: DE814773217, HRA 6640, AG Bad Oeynhausen Komplementärin: Robert Meyer Verwaltungs GmbH, HRB 13260, AG Bad Oeynhausen
--=-9B3uZPzsDRcE+VSy7Uji Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello Sven, here free -m on my ovirtengine: ssh root@ovirtengine.lab.mbox.loc free -m total used free shared buffers cached Mem: 3830 2689 1141 0 151 669 -/+ buffers/cache: 1868 1961 Swap: 2047 0 2047 One could argure the buffers, but my engine is using about 2GB without. Currently I have 10 VMs running + HE (mem capacity reasons on the HV's). But IIRC I had times when HE was using about 3.5 GB.=20 This is why I considered the 4GB ML as reasonable. Can you point out BZ for me? Thanks=20 On Fr, 2014-06-20 at 10:53 +0000, Sven Kieske wrote:
You should keep in mind the 4GB min memory requirement for oVirt engine= . Better go for 8GB in a bare metal system if you like to have more headroom for future upgrades. =20 There is ongoing discussion on this ML and in some BZs why this requirement is stated. So far I do not know of any real world installation which utilizes 4 GB RAM for ovirt. =20 Do you happen do run such an instance? If yes, could you share how many vms etc you host on
Am 20.06.2014 12:15, schrieb Daniel Helgenberger: this environment? =20 --=20 Mit freundlichen Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fen / Regards =20 Sven Kieske =20 Systemadministrator Mittwald CM Service GmbH & Co. KG K=C3=B6nigsberger Stra=C3=9Fe 6 32339 Espelkamp T: +49-5772-293-100 F: +49-5772-293-333 https://www.mittwald.de Gesch=C3=A4ftsf=C3=BChrer: Robert Meyer St.Nr.: 331/5721/1033, USt-IdNr.: DE814773217, HRA 6640, AG Bad Oeynhause= n Komplement=C3=A4rin: Robert Meyer Verwaltungs GmbH, HRB 13260, AG Bad Oey= nhausen _______________________________________________ Users mailing list Users@ovirt.org http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/users
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Am 20.06.2014 13:12, schrieb Daniel Helgenberger:
here free -m on my ovirtengine:
ssh root@ovirtengine.lab.mbox.loc free -m total used free shared buffers cached Mem: 3830 2689 1141 0 151 669 -/+ buffers/cache: 1868 1961 Swap: 2047 0 2047
One could argure the buffers, but my engine is using about 2GB without. Currently I have 10 VMs running + HE (mem capacity reasons on the HV's). But IIRC I had times when HE was using about 3.5 GB.
This is why I considered the 4GB ML as reasonable. Can you point out BZ for me?
Well your system seems to use 1800 MB in total, so engine will just use a (major) fraction of that. My apologies, but it turns out, there is no BZ, just a discussion thread on this ML: http://lists.ovirt.org/pipermail/users/2014-May/024237.html It's somewhat hijacked because the initial problem was something else. See my and R P Herrolds postings in particular. But I guess this new thread just shows that the stated requirements for a minimal system should get tweaked in the docs. -- Mit freundlichen Grüßen / Regards Sven Kieske Systemadministrator Mittwald CM Service GmbH & Co. KG Königsberger Straße 6 32339 Espelkamp T: +49-5772-293-100 F: +49-5772-293-333 https://www.mittwald.de Geschäftsführer: Robert Meyer St.Nr.: 331/5721/1033, USt-IdNr.: DE814773217, HRA 6640, AG Bad Oeynhausen Komplementärin: Robert Meyer Verwaltungs GmbH, HRB 13260, AG Bad Oeynhausen
--=-JG5mWJLcGh9TDE7Kk6ER Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello Sven, thanks: On Fr, 2014-06-20 at 11:30 +0000, Sven Kieske wrote:
here free -m on my ovirtengine: =20 ssh root@ovirtengine.lab.mbox.loc free -m total used free shared buffers cach= ed Mem: 3830 2689 1141 0 151 6= 69 -/+ buffers/cache: 1868 1961 Swap: 2047 0 2047 =20 One could argure the buffers, but my engine is using about 2GB without. Currently I have 10 VMs running + HE (mem capacity reasons on the HV's)= . But IIRC I had times when HE was using about 3.5 GB.=20 =20 This is why I considered the 4GB ML as reasonable. Can you point out BZ for me? =20 Well your system seems to use 1800 MB in total, so engine will just use a (major) fraction of that. =20 My apologies, but it turns out, there is no BZ, just a discussion
=20 =20 Am 20.06.2014 13:12, schrieb Daniel Helgenberger: thread on this ML: http://lists.ovirt.org/pipermail/users/2014-May/024237.html
The author of the thread (Sven van Acker) sates: "The solution to this problem is to have at least 4GB of RAM, after which oVirt seems to start up fine (with only 1.2GB of RAM in use)." This describes the outcome of my tests somewhat. I had start up problems wich were gone after I bumped up the allocated RAM in an early test VM. I never tested it on a bare metal system but assume it will be the same.=20 I can only suspect the reasons and this might get "fixed" in the future. OTOH it seems reasonable for me to have RAM available for postgresql anyway. @Nicolas, keep in mind system performance of the engine not only affects the UI; but also various processes in the background. Also, if you plan on using the VDI and self-deployment features ("User Access") a slow UI might be very counterproductive and OOM conditions the system unstable. =20
=20 It's somewhat hijacked because the initial problem was something else. See my and R P Herrolds postings in particular. =20 But I guess this new thread just shows that the stated requirements for a minimal system should get tweaked in the docs. =20 --=20 Mit freundlichen Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fen / Regards =20 Sven Kieske =20 Systemadministrator Mittwald CM Service GmbH & Co. KG K=C3=B6nigsberger Stra=C3=9Fe 6 32339 Espelkamp T: +49-5772-293-100 F: +49-5772-293-333 https://www.mittwald.de Gesch=C3=A4ftsf=C3=BChrer: Robert Meyer St.Nr.: 331/5721/1033, USt-IdNr.: DE814773217, HRA 6640, AG Bad Oeynhause= n Komplement=C3=A4rin: Robert Meyer Verwaltungs GmbH, HRB 13260, AG Bad Oey= nhausen _______________________________________________ Users mailing list Users@ovirt.org http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/users
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Le 20/06/2014 15:27, Daniel Helgenberger a écrit :
@Nicolas, keep in mind system performance of the engine not only affects the UI; but also various processes in the background. Also, if you plan on using the VDI and self-deployment features ("User Access") a slow UI might be very counterproductive and OOM conditions the system unstable.
We don't plan to use VDI nor user access. I was asking such a question because I see the manager as a small database maintainer, a leader which gives indications, authenticates, reports, and intructions, but does nothing heavy, does not calculate anything complex, and does not store heavy data. As I said, I have a feeling that in OUR case, the heaviest load dealt with the manager is the web UI, and as I said, I don't mind being VERY patient when setting things up. I feel that, once set up, the load will be very small, and the heaviest task I may need is to aski a host to manage the migration of a VM (wow !) -- Nicolas Ecarnot
----- Original Message -----
From: "Nicolas Ecarnot" <nicolas@ecarnot.net> To: users@ovirt.org Sent: Friday, June 20, 2014 5:08:45 PM Subject: Re: [ovirt-users] What prevents from using a very very low-end hardware for manager?
Le 20/06/2014 15:27, Daniel Helgenberger a écrit :
@Nicolas, keep in mind system performance of the engine not only affects the UI; but also various processes in the background. Also, if you plan on using the VDI and self-deployment features ("User Access") a slow UI might be very counterproductive and OOM conditions the system unstable.
We don't plan to use VDI nor user access.
I was asking such a question because I see the manager as a small database maintainer, a leader which gives indications, authenticates, reports, and intructions, but does nothing heavy, does not calculate anything complex, and does not store heavy data. As I said, I have a feeling that in OUR case, the heaviest load dealt with the manager is the web UI, and as I said, I don't mind being VERY patient when setting things up. I feel that, once set up, the load will be very small, and the heaviest task I may need is to aski a host to manage the migration of a VM (wow !)
-- Nicolas Ecarnot
Nicolas (and other on this thread), I'd like to clarify one thing, as indeed this sometimes comes up as a question- Where did oVirt prerequisites come from? Since the engine may be installed with DWH & reporting, we need to consider all components' needs including the DB; The application server is configured to use 1 GiB of heap by default, plus around 500 threads, which should result around 2 GiB of RSS in the worst case. To that you have to add the RSS taken by the database, the operating system, etc. Adding Jasper requirements as well: Resource Footprint Minimum Recommended Disk ~1.3 GiB 10GB free 40GB + RAM 4GB 8GB + Processor 2 core minimum 2.5GHz + multi-core Pentium So the end results[1] is around the above numbers to make sure we allow this installation to work. It is possible to get along with less, if you will not install some of the components, but this is what we should expect from a standard installation. Doron [1] http://www.ovirt.org/Quick_Start_Guide#Prerequisites
Am 22.06.2014 10:06, schrieb Doron Fediuck:
Nicolas (and other on this thread), I'd like to clarify one thing, as indeed this sometimes comes up as a question- Where did oVirt prerequisites come from?
Since the engine may be installed with DWH & reporting, we need to consider all components' needs including the DB;
The application server is configured to use 1 GiB of heap by default, plus around 500 threads, which should result around 2 GiB of RSS in the worst case. To that you have to add the RSS taken by the database, the operating system, etc.
well, yeah, "worst case" but the 4 GB you mention, aren't specified as worst case, but as a minimum. how can a worst case scenario be the minimum? On CentOS you're not able imho until some release to even install DWH without third party repos. Anyway thanks for the interesting insight where all those numbers come from!
Adding Jasper requirements as well:
Resource Footprint Minimum Recommended Disk ~1.3 GiB 10GB free 40GB + RAM 4GB 8GB + Processor 2 core minimum 2.5GHz + multi-core Pentium
So the end results[1] is around the above numbers to make sure we allow this installation to work. It is possible to get along with less, if you will not install some of the components, but this is what we should expect from a standard installation.
Doron
-- Mit freundlichen Grüßen / Regards Sven Kieske Systemadministrator Mittwald CM Service GmbH & Co. KG Königsberger Straße 6 32339 Espelkamp T: +49-5772-293-100 F: +49-5772-293-333 https://www.mittwald.de Geschäftsführer: Robert Meyer St.Nr.: 331/5721/1033, USt-IdNr.: DE814773217, HRA 6640, AG Bad Oeynhausen Komplementärin: Robert Meyer Verwaltungs GmbH, HRB 13260, AG Bad Oeynhausen
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sven Kieske" <S.Kieske@mittwald.de> To: "Doron Fediuck" <dfediuck@redhat.com>, "Nicolas Ecarnot" <nicolas@ecarnot.net> Cc: users@ovirt.org Sent: Monday, June 23, 2014 9:21:05 AM Subject: Re: [ovirt-users] What prevents from using a very very low-end hardware for manager?
Am 22.06.2014 10:06, schrieb Doron Fediuck:
Nicolas (and other on this thread), I'd like to clarify one thing, as indeed this sometimes comes up as a question- Where did oVirt prerequisites come from?
Since the engine may be installed with DWH & reporting, we need to consider all components' needs including the DB;
The application server is configured to use 1 GiB of heap by default, plus around 500 threads, which should result around 2 GiB of RSS in the worst case. To that you have to add the RSS taken by the database, the operating system, etc.
well, yeah, "worst case" but the 4 GB you mention, aren't specified as worst case, but as a minimum. how can a worst case scenario be the minimum?
See below; 4 GiB is the minimum to allow DWH & reporting, and 8 GiB is the recommended amount of RAM.
On CentOS you're not able imho until some release to even install DWH without third party repos.
This is being worked on for 3.5.0. Either way you will get warnings in the installation now but it will not be blocked.
Anyway thanks for the interesting insight where all those numbers come from!
Adding Jasper requirements as well:
Resource Footprint Minimum Recommended Disk ~1.3 GiB 10GB free 40GB + RAM 4GB 8GB + Processor 2 core minimum 2.5GHz + multi-core Pentium
So the end results[1] is around the above numbers to make sure we allow this installation to work. It is possible to get along with less, if you will not install some of the components, but this is what we should expect from a standard installation.
Doron
-- Mit freundlichen Grüßen / Regards
Sven Kieske
Systemadministrator Mittwald CM Service GmbH & Co. KG Königsberger Straße 6 32339 Espelkamp T: +49-5772-293-100 F: +49-5772-293-333 https://www.mittwald.de Geschäftsführer: Robert Meyer St.Nr.: 331/5721/1033, USt-IdNr.: DE814773217, HRA 6640, AG Bad Oeynhausen Komplementärin: Robert Meyer Verwaltungs GmbH, HRB 13260, AG Bad Oeynhausen
participants (4)
-
Daniel Helgenberger -
Doron Fediuck -
Nicolas Ecarnot -
Sven Kieske