Hello, Are we to assume that VNC mode is the only thing that will be supported for the VM consoles moving forward then?  As the pure SPICE mode only works with QXL display as far as I can tell. I ask because the VNC or SPICE+VNC modes haven't worked in my environment for over a year now, and that change would effectively prevent the use of any VM console in my environment.  (Use of VNC with remote viewer always gives me an authentication error.) Not that it's a normal environment, but that kind of thing should be advertised more. Just in case simillar issues exist in other deployments. Thanks. On Mon, 2021-12-06 at 22:03 +0200, Arik Hadas wrote:

On Mon, Dec 6, 2021 at 8:45 PM lejeczek via Users <users@ovirt.org> wrote:

...

On 06/12/2021 17:42, lejeczek via Users wrote:

...

Hi.

I've Qemu/Libvirt from ovirt-release-master-4.5.0- 0.0.master.20211206152702.gitebb0229.el9.noarch and it seems QXL is not there. Is that a fluke or intention? Do you have QXL working?

upss.. pardon me, these are from CentOS 9 Steam own repos actually.

Right, and that's the reason for the ongoing work on removing qxl on cluster level 4.7: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1976607  

...

_______________________________________________ Users mailing list -- users@ovirt.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave@ovirt.org Privacy Statement: https://www.ovirt.org/privacy-policy.html oVirt Code of Conduct: https://www.ovirt.org/community/about/community-guidelines/ List Archives:

https://lists.ovirt.org/archives/list/users@ovirt.org/message/DZMAQQJMPHD2L4... _______________________________________________ Users mailing list -- users@ovirt.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave@ovirt.org Privacy Statement: https://www.ovirt.org/privacy-policy.html oVirt Code of Conduct: https://www.ovirt.org/community/about/community-guidelines/ List Archives: https://lists.ovirt.org/archives/list/users@ovirt.org/message/22NZAQL46WMEFF...

Hi, Will SPICE be deprecated or fully removed in oVirt 4.5? Since spice is still more performant than VNC and also has more features such as USB redirection, why is it being phased out? Which connection method should we use to connect clients with a VM from a pool when USB redirection is also a requirement? Regards, Rik On 12/7/21 08:41, Arik Hadas wrote:

On Tue, Dec 7, 2021 at 8:33 AM Patrick Hibbs <hibbsncc1701@gmail.com> wrote:

Hello,

Are we to assume that VNC mode is the only thing that will be supported for the VM consoles moving forward then? As the pure SPICE mode only works with QXL display as far as I can tell.

I ask because the VNC or SPICE+VNC modes haven't worked in my environment for over a year now, and that change would effectively prevent the use of any VM console in my environment.  (Use of VNC with remote viewer always gives me an authentication error.) Not that it's a normal environment, but that kind of thing should be advertised more. Just in case simillar issues exist in other deployments.

Yes, one would need to make sure vnc/vga works well before upgrading to the next cluster-level (in oVirt 4.5) In general it is recommended to test the configuration in the new cluster-level by setting some representative VMs in the environment with a custom compatibility level  and check that they work properly before upgrading to that cluster-level.

Thanks.

On Mon, 2021-12-06 at 22:03 +0200, Arik Hadas wrote:

...

On Mon, Dec 6, 2021 at 8:45 PM lejeczek via Users <users@ovirt.org> wrote:

...

On 06/12/2021 17:42, lejeczek via Users wrote: > Hi. > > I've Qemu/Libvirt from > ovirt-release-master-4.5.0-0.0.master.20211206152702.gitebb0229.el9.noarch

> and it seems QXL is not there. > Is that a fluke or intention? > Do you have QXL working? > upss.. pardon me, these are from CentOS 9 Steam own repos actually.

Right, and that's the reason for the ongoing work on removing qxl on cluster level 4.7: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1976607

...

_______________________________________________ Users mailing list -- users@ovirt.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave@ovirt.org Privacy Statement: https://www.ovirt.org/privacy-policy.html oVirt Code of Conduct: https://www.ovirt.org/community/about/community-guidelines/ List Archives: https://lists.ovirt.org/archives/list/users@ovirt.org/message/DZMAQQJMPHD2L4...

_______________________________________________ Users mailing list -- users@ovirt.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave@ovirt.org Privacy Statement: https://www.ovirt.org/privacy-policy.html oVirt Code of Conduct: https://www.ovirt.org/community/about/community-guidelines/ List Archives: https://lists.ovirt.org/archives/list/users@ovirt.org/message/22NZAQL46WMEFF...

_______________________________________________ Users mailing list -- users@ovirt.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave@ovirt.org Privacy Statement: https://www.ovirt.org/privacy-policy.html oVirt Code of Conduct: https://www.ovirt.org/community/about/community-guidelines/ List Archives: https://lists.ovirt.org/archives/list/users@ovirt.org/message/GT5YYVAFM4P7AM...

_______________________________________________ Users mailing list --users@ovirt.org To unsubscribe send an email tousers-leave@ovirt.org Privacy Statement:https://www.ovirt.org/privacy-policy.html oVirt Code of Conduct:https://www.ovirt.org/community/about/community-guidelines/ List Archives:https://lists.ovirt.org/archives/list/users@ovirt.org/message/A3SCN663TVNEKP...

-- Rik Theys System Engineer KU Leuven - Dept. Elektrotechniek (ESAT) Kasteelpark Arenberg 10 bus 2440 - B-3001 Leuven-Heverlee +32(0)16/32.11.07 ---------------------------------------------------------------- <<Any errors in spelling, tact or fact are transmission errors>>

Hi, On 12/7/21 15:15, Neal Gompa wrote:

On Tue, Dec 7, 2021 at 8:49 AM Rik Theys <Rik.Theys@esat.kuleuven.be> wrote:

...

Will SPICE be deprecated or fully removed in oVirt 4.5?

Since spice is still more performant than VNC and also has more features such as USB redirection, why is it being phased out?

Which connection method should we use to connect clients with a VM from a pool when USB redirection is also a requirement?

There will be no way to do it. Please file bugs and support cases to Red Hat telling them these features are needed. Then maybe they'll reconsider...

Against which component should I file the bug? We're an oVirt user and not a RHV user so we can't open support cases for this. Will the functionality only be dropped for RHEL9/CentOS Stream 9 guests or for all VM types? Will it only be removed in "RHV", or also in oVirt? It would be nice to keep it in oVirt even if there's no official support for it. Regards, Rik

On Tue, Dec 7, 2021 at 9:47 AM Rik Theys <Rik.Theys@esat.kuleuven.be> wrote:

Hi,

On 12/7/21 15:15, Neal Gompa wrote:

...

On Tue, Dec 7, 2021 at 8:49 AM Rik Theys <Rik.Theys@esat.kuleuven.be> wrote:

...

Will SPICE be deprecated or fully removed in oVirt 4.5?

Since spice is still more performant than VNC and also has more features such as USB redirection, why is it being phased out?

Which connection method should we use to connect clients with a VM from a pool when USB redirection is also a requirement?

There will be no way to do it. Please file bugs and support cases to Red Hat telling them these features are needed. Then maybe they'll reconsider...

Against which component should I file the bug? We're an oVirt user and not a RHV user so we can't open support cases for this.

Will the functionality only be dropped for RHEL9/CentOS Stream 9 guests or for all VM types? Will it only be removed in "RHV", or also in oVirt? It would be nice to keep it in oVirt even if there's no official support for it.

You will want to file a bug against qemu in RHEL 9. If you're a RHEL customer, file support cases against RHEL 9.0 Beta for this. The reason oVirt dropped it is because RHEL deprecated it in 8.3: https://access.redhat.com/documentation/en-us/red_hat_enterprise_linux/8/htm... It got dropped in RHEL 9.0 because this deprecation was not undone before then. -- 真実はいつも一つ！/ Always, there's only one truth!

Additionally, should this go forward. I would be interested in maintaining a 3rd party repo with patched packages to keep SPICE/QXL support if anyone else would like to join. On 2021-12-07 10:08, Alex McWhirter wrote:

I've sent my concerns to redhat, this would force us to look at other software and more than likely no longer be red hat customers.

On 2021-12-07 09:15, Neal Gompa wrote:

...

On Tue, Dec 7, 2021 at 8:49 AM Rik Theys <Rik.Theys@esat.kuleuven.be> wrote:

...

Hi,

Will SPICE be deprecated or fully removed in oVirt 4.5?

Since spice is still more performant than VNC and also has more features such as USB redirection, why is it being phased out?

Which connection method should we use to connect clients with a VM from a pool when USB redirection is also a requirement?

There will be no way to do it. Please file bugs and support cases to Red Hat telling them these features are needed. Then maybe they'll reconsider...

---

Users mailing list -- users@ovirt.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave@ovirt.org Privacy Statement: https://www.ovirt.org/privacy-policy.html oVirt Code of Conduct: https://www.ovirt.org/community/about/community-guidelines/ List Archives: https://lists.ovirt.org/archives/list/users@ovirt.org/message/E7RPORLDTLLLST...

Hi, On 12/7/21 16:26, Neal Gompa wrote:

On Tue, Dec 7, 2021 at 10:21 AM Alex McWhirter <alex@triadic.us> wrote:

...

Additionally, should this go forward. I would be interested in maintaining a 3rd party repo with patched packages to keep SPICE/QXL support if anyone else would like to join.

The Hyperscale SIG is already looking into shipping custom QEMU packages[1][2] to go along with the custom libvirt package[3]. You might want to reach out to them and collaborate there.

[1]: https://pagure.io/centos-sig-hyperscale/sig/issue/67 [2]: https://pagure.io/centos-sig-hyperscale/sig/issue/55 [3]: https://pagure.io/centos-sig-hyperscale/sig/issue/16

Would this also require custom oVirt packages, or will the ovirt bits to support spice/qxl remain? Regards, Rik

Hello, Can I ask why this is being removed? The linked bugzilla report doesn't give a reason, and at least two others have expressed concerns over SPICE's deprecation. Personally, I would like to know why it's being removed entirely with no recourse instead of becoming an option to enable in the VM config, or an optional RPM that can be installed by the sysadmin. Thanks. On Tue, 2021-12-07 at 09:41 +0200, Arik Hadas wrote:

On Tue, Dec 7, 2021 at 8:33 AM Patrick Hibbs <hibbsncc1701@gmail.com> wrote:

...

Hello,

Are we to assume that VNC mode is the only thing that will be supported for the VM consoles moving forward then?  As the pure SPICE mode only works with QXL display as far as I can tell.

I ask because the VNC or SPICE+VNC modes haven't worked in my environment for over a year now, and that change would effectively prevent the use of any VM console in my environment.  (Use of VNC with remote viewer always gives me an authentication error.) Not that it's a normal environment, but that kind of thing should be advertised more. Just in case simillar issues exist in other deployments.

Yes, one would need to make sure vnc/vga works well before upgrading to the next cluster-level (in oVirt 4.5) In general it is recommended to test the configuration in the new cluster-level by setting some representative VMs in the environment with a custom compatibility level  and check that they work properly before upgrading to that cluster-level.  

...

Thanks.

On Mon, 2021-12-06 at 22:03 +0200, Arik Hadas wrote:

...

On Mon, Dec 6, 2021 at 8:45 PM lejeczek via Users <users@ovirt.org> wrote:

...

On 06/12/2021 17:42, lejeczek via Users wrote:

...

Hi.

I've Qemu/Libvirt from ovirt-release-master-4.5.0- 0.0.master.20211206152702.gitebb0229.el9.noarch and it seems QXL is not there. Is that a fluke or intention? Do you have QXL working?

upss.. pardon me, these are from CentOS 9 Steam own repos actually.

Right, and that's the reason for the ongoing work on removing qxl on cluster level 4.7: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1976607  

...

_______________________________________________ Users mailing list -- users@ovirt.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave@ovirt.org Privacy Statement: https://www.ovirt.org/privacy-policy.html oVirt Code of Conduct: https://www.ovirt.org/community/about/community-guidelines/ List Archives:

https://lists.ovirt.org/archives/list/users@ovirt.org/message/DZMAQQJMPHD2L4...

...

...

_______________________________________________ Users mailing list -- users@ovirt.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave@ovirt.org Privacy Statement: https://www.ovirt.org/privacy-policy.html oVirt Code of Conduct: https://www.ovirt.org/community/about/community-guidelines/ List Archives:

https://lists.ovirt.org/archives/list/users@ovirt.org/message/22NZAQL46WMEFF...

...

_______________________________________________ Users mailing list -- users@ovirt.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave@ovirt.org Privacy Statement: https://www.ovirt.org/privacy-policy.html oVirt Code of Conduct: https://www.ovirt.org/community/about/community-guidelines/ List Archives:

https://lists.ovirt.org/archives/list/users@ovirt.org/message/GT5YYVAFM4P7AM...

For us, SPICE lets us present VMs in secure networks to unsecure locations. RDP and VNC will not work for us. I didn't want to rant but why Red Hat drops useful features is beyond me. First Satellite 5 (Spacewalk), GlusterFS, not RHV. Yep, we've been a RHV customer since RHEV v2.2 days. SPICE was the compelling feature then and remains so. My 2 cents On Wed, 8 Dec 2021 at 03:42, Alex McWhirter <alex@triadic.us> wrote:

It's being removed from RHEL 9, unsure of reasoning.

So this mean that oVirt cannot offer SPICE/QXL on RHEL9, there is no spice package, qemu is compiled without SPICE/QXL support, the kernel does not support QXL video drivers.

It's not that oVirt is killing off SPICE/QXL, but rather RHEL9 is and oVirt cannot support a feature not available on the host OS unless 3rd party packages or a SiG makes them available.

On 2021-12-07 14:14, Patrick Hibbs wrote:

Hello,

Can I ask why this is being removed?

The linked bugzilla report doesn't give a reason, and at least two others have expressed concerns over SPICE's deprecation.

Personally, I would like to know why it's being removed entirely with no recourse instead of becoming an option to enable in the VM config, or an optional RPM that can be installed by the sysadmin.

Thanks.

On Tue, 2021-12-07 at 09:41 +0200, Arik Hadas wrote:

On Tue, Dec 7, 2021 at 8:33 AM Patrick Hibbs <hibbsncc1701@gmail.com> wrote:

Hello,

Are we to assume that VNC mode is the only thing that will be supported for the VM consoles moving forward then? As the pure SPICE mode only works with QXL display as far as I can tell.

I ask because the VNC or SPICE+VNC modes haven't worked in my environment for over a year now, and that change would effectively prevent the use of any VM console in my environment. (Use of VNC with remote viewer always gives me an authentication error.) Not that it's a normal environment, but that kind of thing should be advertised more. Just in case simillar issues exist in other deployments.

Yes, one would need to make sure vnc/vga works well before upgrading to the next cluster-level (in oVirt 4.5) In general it is recommended to test the configuration in the new cluster-level by setting some representative VMs in the environment with a custom compatibility level and check that they work properly before upgrading to that cluster-level.

Thanks.

On Mon, 2021-12-06 at 22:03 +0200, Arik Hadas wrote:

On Mon, Dec 6, 2021 at 8:45 PM lejeczek via Users <users@ovirt.org> wrote:

On 06/12/2021 17:42, lejeczek via Users wrote:

...

Hi.

I've Qemu/Libvirt from

ovirt-release-master-4.5.0-0.0.master.20211206152702.gitebb0229.el9.noarch

...

and it seems QXL is not there. Is that a fluke or intention? Do you have QXL working?

upss.. pardon me, these are from CentOS 9 Steam own repos actually.

Right, and that's the reason for the ongoing work on removing qxl on cluster level 4.7: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1976607

_______________________________________________ Users mailing list -- users@ovirt.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave@ovirt.org Privacy Statement: https://www.ovirt.org/privacy-policy.html oVirt Code of Conduct: https://www.ovirt.org/community/about/community-guidelines/ List Archives: https://lists.ovirt.org/archives/list/users@ovirt.org/message/DZMAQQJMPHD2L4...

_______________________________________________ Users mailing list -- users@ovirt.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave@ovirt.org Privacy Statement: https://www.ovirt.org/privacy-policy.html oVirt Code of Conduct: https://www.ovirt.org/community/about/community-guidelines/ List Archives: https://lists.ovirt.org/archives/list/users@ovirt.org/message/22NZAQL46WMEFF...

_______________________________________________ Users mailing list -- users@ovirt.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave@ovirt.org Privacy Statement: https://www.ovirt.org/privacy-policy.html oVirt Code of Conduct: https://www.ovirt.org/community/about/community-guidelines/ List Archives: https://lists.ovirt.org/archives/list/users@ovirt.org/message/GT5YYVAFM4P7AM...

_______________________________________________ Users mailing list -- users@ovirt.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave@ovirt.org Privacy Statement: https://www.ovirt.org/privacy-policy.html oVirt Code of Conduct: https://www.ovirt.org/community/about/community-guidelines/ List Archives: https://lists.ovirt.org/archives/list/users@ovirt.org/message/UVPLNOGVY6DD6S...

_______________________________________________ Users mailing list -- users@ovirt.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave@ovirt.org Privacy Statement: https://www.ovirt.org/privacy-policy.html oVirt Code of Conduct: https://www.ovirt.org/community/about/community-guidelines/ List Archives: https://lists.ovirt.org/archives/list/users@ovirt.org/message/GA7YUKUDR466NG...

OK, so how will I present secure VMs (i.e. VMs that live in secure, protected networks) at unsecure locations once SPICE is gone? VNC and RDP connect to the VM itself. SPICE connects to a TLS port on the hypervisor which means we never expose the VM to the end users network and we have a small number of devices (hypervisors) to protect. I'm happy to take suggestions. On Wed, 8 Dec 2021 at 15:40, Arik Hadas <ahadas@redhat.com> wrote:

On Wed, Dec 8, 2021 at 3:53 AM Colin Coe <colin.coe@gmail.com> wrote:

...

For us, SPICE lets us present VMs in secure networks to unsecure locations. RDP and VNC will not work for us.

I didn't want to rant but why Red Hat drops useful features is beyond me. First Satellite 5 (Spacewalk), GlusterFS, not RHV. Yep, we've been a RHV customer since RHEV v2.2 days. SPICE was the compelling feature then and remains so.

My 2 cents

On Wed, 8 Dec 2021 at 03:42, Alex McWhirter <alex@triadic.us> wrote:

...

It's being removed from RHEL 9, unsure of reasoning.

So this mean that oVirt cannot offer SPICE/QXL on RHEL9, there is no spice package, qemu is compiled without SPICE/QXL support, the kernel does not support QXL video drivers.

It's not that oVirt is killing off SPICE/QXL, but rather RHEL9 is and oVirt cannot support a feature not available on the host OS unless 3rd party packages or a SiG makes them available

Right The idea was to have a new cluster level on which we can provide the latest-and-greatest fixes and capabilities and so to base it on CentOS stream 9 where SPICE is not available We anyway intend to keep SPICE in oVirt 4.5 on lower cluster levels, which should work as long as the hosts are not upgraded to CentOS stream 9

...

.

...

On 2021-12-07 14:14, Patrick Hibbs wrote:

Hello,

Can I ask why this is being removed?

The linked bugzilla report doesn't give a reason, and at least two others have expressed concerns over SPICE's deprecation.

Personally, I would like to know why it's being removed entirely with no recourse instead of becoming an option to enable in the VM config, or an optional RPM that can be installed by the sysadmin.

Thanks.

On Tue, 2021-12-07 at 09:41 +0200, Arik Hadas wrote:

On Tue, Dec 7, 2021 at 8:33 AM Patrick Hibbs <hibbsncc1701@gmail.com> wrote:

Hello,

Are we to assume that VNC mode is the only thing that will be supported for the VM consoles moving forward then? As the pure SPICE mode only works with QXL display as far as I can tell.

I ask because the VNC or SPICE+VNC modes haven't worked in my environment for over a year now, and that change would effectively prevent the use of any VM console in my environment. (Use of VNC with remote viewer always gives me an authentication error.) Not that it's a normal environment, but that kind of thing should be advertised more. Just in case simillar issues exist in other deployments.

Yes, one would need to make sure vnc/vga works well before upgrading to the next cluster-level (in oVirt 4.5) In general it is recommended to test the configuration in the new cluster-level by setting some representative VMs in the environment with a custom compatibility level and check that they work properly before upgrading to that cluster-level.

Thanks.

On Mon, 2021-12-06 at 22:03 +0200, Arik Hadas wrote:

On Mon, Dec 6, 2021 at 8:45 PM lejeczek via Users <users@ovirt.org> wrote:

On 06/12/2021 17:42, lejeczek via Users wrote:

...

Hi.

I've Qemu/Libvirt from

ovirt-release-master-4.5.0-0.0.master.20211206152702.gitebb0229.el9.noarch

...

and it seems QXL is not there. Is that a fluke or intention? Do you have QXL working?

upss.. pardon me, these are from CentOS 9 Steam own repos actually.

Right, and that's the reason for the ongoing work on removing qxl on cluster level 4.7: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1976607

_______________________________________________ Users mailing list -- users@ovirt.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave@ovirt.org Privacy Statement: https://www.ovirt.org/privacy-policy.html oVirt Code of Conduct: https://www.ovirt.org/community/about/community-guidelines/ List Archives: https://lists.ovirt.org/archives/list/users@ovirt.org/message/DZMAQQJMPHD2L4...

_______________________________________________ Users mailing list -- users@ovirt.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave@ovirt.org Privacy Statement: https://www.ovirt.org/privacy-policy.html oVirt Code of Conduct: https://www.ovirt.org/community/about/community-guidelines/ List Archives: https://lists.ovirt.org/archives/list/users@ovirt.org/message/22NZAQL46WMEFF...

_______________________________________________ Users mailing list -- users@ovirt.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave@ovirt.org Privacy Statement: https://www.ovirt.org/privacy-policy.html oVirt Code of Conduct: https://www.ovirt.org/community/about/community-guidelines/ List Archives: https://lists.ovirt.org/archives/list/users@ovirt.org/message/GT5YYVAFM4P7AM...

_______________________________________________ Users mailing list -- users@ovirt.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave@ovirt.org Privacy Statement: https://www.ovirt.org/privacy-policy.html oVirt Code of Conduct: https://www.ovirt.org/community/about/community-guidelines/ List Archives: https://lists.ovirt.org/archives/list/users@ovirt.org/message/UVPLNOGVY6DD6S...

_______________________________________________ Users mailing list -- users@ovirt.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave@ovirt.org Privacy Statement: https://www.ovirt.org/privacy-policy.html oVirt Code of Conduct: https://www.ovirt.org/community/about/community-guidelines/ List Archives: https://lists.ovirt.org/archives/list/users@ovirt.org/message/GA7YUKUDR466NG...

_______________________________________________ Users mailing list -- users@ovirt.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave@ovirt.org Privacy Statement: https://www.ovirt.org/privacy-policy.html oVirt Code of Conduct: https://www.ovirt.org/community/about/community-guidelines/ List Archives: https://lists.ovirt.org/archives/list/users@ovirt.org/message/GIGE75F2I3RAO7...