Hello All, I would like to receive feedback regarding how we should cope with a state presented to use by Fedora. Fedora-19 minimal setup does not install tar utility which is required to deploy files during the host-deploy process (Hosts->Add Host). I guess because of 2.8M in size (including translations) -- a standard commonly used utility was removed. There are two alternatives : 1. Instruct users who are using minimal installations to manually install tar utility just like they configure repository, dns, etc.. Benefit: simplicity. Benefit: use standard tools. Benefit: lower payload to transmit. Drawback: require tar at destination machine. 2. Do not use tar but self extracting python script, a patch is ready[1]. Benefit: ability to deploy environment in which tar is missing. Drawback: non standard tool at destination machine. Drawback: complexity within our code. [[[ There was 3rd alternative, using python tar module to deploy tar. However, there is a bug in that module when processing last block if empty. This is edge condition but happened to at least one of the users and I could reproduce it. ]]] Regards, Alon Bar-Lev

From: "Alon Bar-Lev" <alonbl(a)redhat.com&gt; To: "Juan Hernandez" <jhernand(a)redhat.com&gt; Cc: "engine-devel" <engine-devel(a)ovirt.org&gt;, "arch" <arch(a)ovirt.org&gt;, "users" <users(a)ovirt.org&gt; Sent: Sunday, July 28, 2013 1:42:58 PM Subject: Re: [Users] [Feedback required][host-deploy] Fedora-19 misses tar at minimal setup ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Juan Hernandez" <jhernand(a)redhat.com&gt; > To: "Alon Bar-Lev" <alonbl(a)redhat.com&gt; > Cc: "engine-devel" <engine-devel(a)ovirt.org&gt;, "arch" <arch(a)ovirt.org&gt;, > "users" <users(a)ovirt.org&gt; > Sent: Sunday, July 28, 2013 12:26:56 PM > Subject: Re: [Users] [Feedback required][host-deploy] Fedora-19 misses tar > at minimal setup > > On 07/28/2013 09:46 AM, Alon Bar-Lev wrote: > > Hello All, > > > > I would like to receive feedback regarding how we should cope with a > > state > > presented to use by Fedora. > > > > Fedora-19 minimal setup does not install tar utility which is required to > > deploy files during the host-deploy process (Hosts->Add Host). > > > > I guess because of 2.8M in size (including translations) -- a standard > > commonly used utility was removed. > > > > There are two alternatives : > > > > 1. Instruct users who are using minimal installations to manually install > > tar utility just like they configure repository, dns, etc.. > > > > Benefit: simplicity. > > Benefit: use standard tools. > > Benefit: lower payload to transmit. > > Drawback: require tar at destination machine. > > > > 2. Do not use tar but self extracting python script, a patch is ready[1]. > > > > Benefit: ability to deploy environment in which tar is missing. > > Drawback: non standard tool at destination machine. > > Drawback: complexity within our code. > > > > [[[ > > There was 3rd alternative, using python tar module to deploy tar. > > However, there is a bug in that module when processing last block if > > empty. > > This is edge condition but happened to at least one of the users and I > > could > > reproduce it. > > ]]] > > > > Regards, > > Alon Bar-Lev > > Consider using cpio instead of tar. It is required to build initrd, so > available in any installation. It is also supported by the library > currently used in the engine to build the tar archive. Thanks Juan, it is good idea. I did not thought of using cpio, as I remembered that cpio has no embedded eof (a.cpio+b.cpio=cpio), but now I experiments and see that I was mistaken. Will try to establish a working solution.

Hello All, Starting the discussion again... I would like to receive feedback regarding how we should cope with a state presented to use by Fedora. Fedora-19 minimal setup does not install tar utility which is required to deploy files during the host-deploy process (Hosts->Add Host). I guess because of 2.8M in size (including translations) -- a standard commonly used utility was removed.

There are three alternatives : 1. Instruct users who are using minimal installations to manually install tar utility just like they configure repository, dns, etc.. Benefit: simplicity. Benefit: use standard tools. Benefit: lower payload to transmit. Drawback: require tar at destination machine. 2. Do not use tar but self extracting python script, a patch is ready[1]. Benefit: ability to deploy environment in which tar is missing. Drawback: non standard tool at destination machine. Drawback: complexity within our code. 3. Do not use tar but cpio, a patch is ready[2]. Benefit: simplicity. Benefit: use standard tools. Benefit: lower payload to transmit. Benefit: ability to use Fedora-19 minimal. Drawback: cpio is even less common than tar, even if it exists in Fedora-19 it can be removed without anyone notice. Drawback: most other distributions will not have cpio in their minimal installation. [[[ There was 4rd alternative, using python tar module to deploy tar. However, there is a bug in that module when processing last block if empty. This is edge condition but happened to at least one of the users and I could reproduce it. ]]] What option do you prefer? Regards, Alon Bar-Lev [1] http://gerrit.ovirt.org/#/c/17295/ [2] http://gerrit.ovirt.org/#/c/17396/ _______________________________________________ Engine-devel mailing list Engine-devel(a)ovirt.org http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/engine-devel

I would advocate for option 2. ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Michal Skrivanek" <michal.skrivanek(a)redhat.com&gt; > To: "Alon Bar-Lev" <alonbl(a)redhat.com&gt; > Cc: "Juan Hernandez" <jhernand(a)redhat.com&gt;, "engine-devel" <engine-devel(a)ovirt.org&gt;, "arch" <arch(a)ovirt.org&gt;, "users" > <users(a)ovirt.org&gt; > Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2013 3:25:24 PM > Subject: Re: [Engine-devel] [Users] [Feedback required][host-deploy] Fedora-19 misses tar at minimal setup > > > On Jul 30, 2013, at 15:12 , Alon Bar-Lev <alonbl(a)redhat.com&gt; wrote: > > > Hello All, > > > > Starting the discussion again... > > > > I would like to receive feedback regarding how we should cope with a state > > presented to use by Fedora. > > > > Fedora-19 minimal setup does not install tar utility which is required to > > deploy files during the host-deploy process (Hosts->Add Host). > > > > I guess because of 2.8M in size (including translations) -- a standard > > commonly used utility was removed. > > How about filing bug on that? This is such a basic utility I can't imagine > anyone removing it. > > > > > There are three alternatives : > > > > 1. Instruct users who are using minimal installations to manually install > > tar utility just like they configure repository, dns, etc.. > > > > Benefit: simplicity. > > Benefit: use standard tools. > > Benefit: lower payload to transmit. > > Drawback: require tar at destination machine. > > > > 2. Do not use tar but self extracting python script, a patch is ready[1]. > > > > Benefit: ability to deploy environment in which tar is missing. > > Drawback: non standard tool at destination machine. > > Drawback: complexity within our code.

On Jul 30, 2013, at 15:12 , Alon Bar-Lev <alonbl(a)redhat.com&gt; wrote: > Hello All, > > Starting the discussion again... > > I would like to receive feedback regarding how we should cope with a state presented to use by Fedora. > > Fedora-19 minimal setup does not install tar utility which is required to deploy files during the host-deploy process (Hosts->Add Host). > > I guess because of 2.8M in size (including translations) -- a standard commonly used utility was removed. How about filing bug on that? This is such a basic utility I can't imagine anyone removing it. +1 it would make the most proper solution from all. > There are three alternatives : > > 1. Instruct users who are using minimal installations to manually install tar utility just like they configure repository, dns, etc.. > > Benefit: simplicity. > Benefit: use standard tools. > Benefit: lower payload to transmit. > Drawback: require tar at destination machine. > > 2. Do not use tar but self extracting python script, a patch is ready[1]. > > Benefit: ability to deploy environment in which tar is missing. > Drawback: non standard tool at destination machine. > Drawback: complexity within our code. > > 3. Do not use tar but cpio, a patch is ready[2]. > > Benefit: simplicity. > Benefit: use standard tools. > Benefit: lower payload to transmit. > Benefit: ability to use Fedora-19 minimal. > Drawback: cpio is even less common than tar, even if it exists in Fedora-19 it can be removed without anyone notice. > Drawback: most other distributions will not have cpio in their minimal installation. > > [[[ > There was 4rd alternative, using python tar module to deploy tar. > However, there is a bug in that module when processing last block if empty. > This is edge condition but happened to at least one of the users and I could > reproduce it. > ]]] > > What option do you prefer? > > Regards, > Alon Bar-Lev > > [1] http://gerrit.ovirt.org/#/c/17295/ > [2] http://gerrit.ovirt.org/#/c/17396/ > _______________________________________________ > Engine-devel mailing list > Engine-devel(a)ovirt.org > http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/engine-devel _______________________________________________ Users mailing list Users(a)ovirt.org http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/users

From: "Sandro Bonazzola" <sbonazzo(a)redhat.com&gt; To: "Alon Bar-Lev" <alonbl(a)redhat.com&gt; Cc: "users" <users(a)ovirt.org&gt;, "arch" <arch(a)ovirt.org&gt;, "engine-devel" <engine-devel(a)ovirt.org&gt;, "Juan Hernandez" <jhernand(a)redhat.com&gt; Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2013 6:11:38 PM Subject: Re: [Engine-devel] [Users] [Feedback required][host-deploy] Fedora-19 misses tar at minimal setup Il 30/07/2013 15:12, Alon Bar-Lev ha scritto: > Hello All, > > Starting the discussion again... > > I would like to receive feedback regarding how we should cope with a state > presented to use by Fedora. > > Fedora-19 minimal setup does not install tar utility which is required to > deploy files during the host-deploy process (Hosts->Add Host). > > I guess because of 2.8M in size (including translations) -- a standard > commonly used utility was removed. > > There are three alternatives : > > 1. Instruct users who are using minimal installations to manually install > tar utility just like they configure repository, dns, etc.. > > Benefit: simplicity. > Benefit: use standard tools. > Benefit: lower payload to transmit. > Drawback: require tar at destination machine. > > 2. Do not use tar but self extracting python script, a patch is ready[1]. > > Benefit: ability to deploy environment in which tar is missing. > Drawback: non standard tool at destination machine. > Drawback: complexity within our code. > > 3. Do not use tar but cpio, a patch is ready[2]. > > Benefit: simplicity. > Benefit: use standard tools. > Benefit: lower payload to transmit. > Benefit: ability to use Fedora-19 minimal. > Drawback: cpio is even less common than tar, even if it exists in Fedora-19 > it can be removed without anyone notice. > Drawback: most other distributions will not have cpio in their minimal > installation. > > [[[ > There was 4rd alternative, using python tar module to deploy tar. > However, there is a bug in that module when processing last block if empty. > This is edge condition but happened to at least one of the users and I > could > reproduce it. > ]]] > > What option do you prefer? Well, honestly, the solution I like more than the others is having the python tar bug fixed and be free to use the python tar lib. I would like to exclude cpio: it's on rpm based distro but not commonly available on others. I would like to exclude the RTFM solution, having it working out of the box. So my second choice is using a self extracting script. If you think pyar is a non standard tool, do you have considered the use of shar? Or do you think it's also a non standard tool?

> > Regards, > Alon Bar-Lev > > [1] http://gerrit.ovirt.org/#/c/17295/ > [2] http://gerrit.ovirt.org/#/c/17396/ > _______________________________________________ > Engine-devel mailing list > Engine-devel(a)ovirt.org > http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/engine-devel -- Sandro Bonazzola Better technology. Faster innovation. Powered by community collaboration. See how it works at redhat.com

Hello Again, I tend to keep state as-is, require tar at host machine. Whoever installs Fedora minimal should install tar manually.

I hope Fedora people will add tar per some of the requests, as tar is important utility in *NIX environment. I do not think that the extra complexity is required. If you strongly think otherwise, then I prefer to merge the self extracting python script. Speak now, and emphasis. Regards, Alon Bar-Lev. ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Alon Bar-Lev" <alonbl(a)redhat.com&gt; > To: "users" <users(a)ovirt.org&gt;, "arch" <arch(a)ovirt.org&gt;, "engine-devel" <engine-devel(a)ovirt.org&gt; > Cc: "Juan Hernandez" <jhernand(a)redhat.com&gt; > Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2013 4:12:03 PM > Subject: Re: [Engine-devel] [Users] [Feedback required][host-deploy] Fedora-19 misses tar at minimal setup > > Hello All, > > Starting the discussion again... > > I would like to receive feedback regarding how we should cope with a state > presented to use by Fedora. > > Fedora-19 minimal setup does not install tar utility which is required to > deploy files during the host-deploy process (Hosts->Add Host). > > I guess because of 2.8M in size (including translations) -- a standard > commonly used utility was removed. > > There are three alternatives : > > 1. Instruct users who are using minimal installations to manually install tar > utility just like they configure repository, dns, etc.. > > Benefit: simplicity. > Benefit: use standard tools. > Benefit: lower payload to transmit. > Drawback: require tar at destination machine. > > 2. Do not use tar but self extracting python script, a patch is ready[1]. > > Benefit: ability to deploy environment in which tar is missing. > Drawback: non standard tool at destination machine. > Drawback: complexity within our code. > > 3. Do not use tar but cpio, a patch is ready[2]. > > Benefit: simplicity. > Benefit: use standard tools. > Benefit: lower payload to transmit. > Benefit: ability to use Fedora-19 minimal. > Drawback: cpio is even less common than tar, even if it exists in Fedora-19 > it can be removed without anyone notice. > Drawback: most other distributions will not have cpio in their minimal > installation. > > [[[ > There was 4rd alternative, using python tar module to deploy tar. > However, there is a bug in that module when processing last block if empty. > This is edge condition but happened to at least one of the users and I could > reproduce it. > ]]] > > What option do you prefer? > > Regards, > Alon Bar-Lev > > [1] http://gerrit.ovirt.org/#/c/17295/ > [2] http://gerrit.ovirt.org/#/c/17396/ > _______________________________________________ > Engine-devel mailing list > Engine-devel(a)ovirt.org > http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/engine-devel > _______________________________________________ Engine-devel mailing list Engine-devel(a)ovirt.org http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/engine-devel