[Users] Setup Host Network dialog - actions availability [ux][BZ#984737]

Mon Aug 26 14:00:29 UTC 2013

----- Original Message -----
> From: "Einav Cohen" <ecohen at redhat.com>
> To: "Eldan Hildesheim" <ehildesh at redhat.com>
> Cc: "info" <info at eldanet.com>, "users" <users at ovirt.org>, jas at cs.yorku.ca, "Malini Rao" <mrao at redhat.com>, "Lior
> Vernia" <lvernia at redhat.com>, "Karli Sjöberg" <Karli.Sjoberg at slu.se>, "René Koch (ovido)" <r.koch at ovido.at>
> Sent: Monday, August 26, 2013 9:48:31 AM
> Subject: Re: [Users] Setup Host Network dialog - actions availability [ux][BZ#984737]
> 
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Eldan Hildesheim" <ehildesh at redhat.com>
> > Sent: Sunday, August 25, 2013 9:41:55 AM
> > 
> > Hi,
> > The SPACE to the right of the text was made originally only for the
> > "purpose
> > network icon" (crown, vm, monitor...) - at one glance the user should
> > understand the purpose of the network. No other icon (edit) should
> > interfere
> > the understanding of this purpose.
> > 1. Putting a gear instead of a pencil is ok with me - but It shouldn't be
> > static - it should be shown only in rollover:
> > It is totally normal to rollover an item and get more options about it and
> > not having an edit icon next to it. (We don't have an icon inside each line
> > in the  grid as well).
> 
> again - reminding the original subject of my thread / original pain-point
> mentioned
> in the description of BZ#984737: the user had a hard time finding the edit
> icon in
> the first place. Replacing a tiny pencil icon with a tiny gear icon (but
> still
> displaying it only upon hover) kind-of misses the entire point IMO.
> a static indication will be helpful in this case.
> 
> [users: it this is NOT a real pain point - please let us know]
> 
> Moreover, the fact that the area on the right-hand side of the
> network-rectangle
> was made originally only for read-only "purpose" icons is OK, but it doesn't
> mean
> that we cannot change that. Alissa made a point about removing the rectangles
> around
> the "purpose" icons (see attached) with which I agree - it will make them
> look less
> like "buttons" and more like read-only icons.
> if we will graphically distinguish the gear icon (e.g. separator, border,
> etc.) so
> that it wouldn't be mistakenly considered as another "purpose" icon, but as a
> button,
> we wouldn't a problem.

MR: I agree that removing the boxes around the read only informational labels will help in distinguishing an action from a label and the separator is also a great idea. I understand Eldan's thinking in terms of revealing the Actions on rollover but I think given that this is a dense graphic screen with lots of visual elements, users may be finding it hard to detect a tiny addition in the form of a icon. For this reason, I suggested this to be static. 

> 
> > 2. The implementation as it is now is a bit bizarre, you rollover the box
> > and
> > you get the EDIT TOOL (pencil) and the TOOLTIP.
> > Sketch - Option 1 - merges both of the technics together.
> 
> was there a sketch that you intended to attach? or did you refer to one of
> the
> attachments in one of the previous e-mails in the thread?
> 
> > But in case we don't really need a tool tip as Lior suggests, we can
> > eliminated the tooltip and go with option 2 (wheel + arrow in rollover)
> 
> I assume that you mean that gear + arrow will appear upon rollover, not that
> gear + arrow will always be displayed and the actual available actions (edit,
> remove) will appear upon hover (which is what I suggested).
> Which means that in your suggestion - actual available actions (edit, remove)
> will appear only upon mouse-click (which means that in order to edit a
> network,
> two clicks will be required, instead of one today / my suggestion)?
> 
> > Eldan
> > 
> > 
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Einav Cohen" <ecohen at redhat.com>
> > To: "users" <users at ovirt.org>
> > Cc: "Lior Vernia" <lvernia at redhat.com>, "info" <info at eldanet.com>, "Eldan
> > Hildesheim" <ehildesh at redhat.com>, jas at cs.yorku.ca, "Karli Sjöberg"
> > <Karli.Sjoberg at slu.se>, "René Koch (ovido)" <r.koch at ovido.at>, "Malini Rao"
> > <mrao at redhat.com>
> > Sent: Friday, August 23, 2013 9:23:31 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Users] Setup Host Network dialog - actions availability
> > [ux][BZ#984737]
> > 
> > [top posting]
> > 
> > Many thanks, everyone, for your valuable input - it is highly appreciated!
> > I would like to do an interim summary of our conclusions / open issues so
> > far, towards converging to a concrete solution.
> > 
> > your feedback will be highly appreciated.
> > 
> > (1) [open issue] actions availability indication:
> > 
> >   (a) always visible (e.g. as a gear icon, see attached
> >   HostSetupNetworks-DropDownMenu.png)
> >   (b) visible only upon hover (see attached
> >   HostSetupNetworks-HoverPopUp.png)
> >   (c) combination (see attached
> >   SetupHostNetworks-StaticAndHoverCombination.png)
> > 
> > [ignore the exact design details for now (e.g. hover solution contains /
> > doesn't
> > contain some network details, gear icon drop-down items panel opens upon
> > hover /
> > upon click, etc.]
> > 
> > I think we all agree that (c) is a bad redundancy;
> > (a) may somewhat clutter the existing view, however it best resolves the
> > original pain point mentioned in the BZ/this thread, which is not fully
> > resolved in solution (b).
> > according to the input provided in this thread, it seems that most of the
> > people are in favor of adding the gear icon, which implies that they
> > support
> > (a) [I could be wrong, please correct me if I am].
> > 
> > (2) [open issue] displaying a details-pop-up upon hover on a logical
> > network
> > is needed / not needed.
> > we received here a couple of opinions that it isn't needed, I would like
> > to verify that everyone are comfortable with that; also need to keep in
> > mind that we currently have a details pop-up when hovering on a NIC, and I
> > assume that we have one for hovering on a Bond - are everyone comfortable
> > with getting rid of all of these?
> > 
> > (3) [open issue] actions availability upon click vs. upon hover.
> > [note: this is not about the indication mentioned in (1) (e.g. gear icon),
> > but about actually showing the available actions (edit, remove, etc.).
> > revealing the available actions upon click would mean that two clicks will
> > be needed in order to edit a logical network, for example, vs. one click
> > that will be needed in the current state / hover solution.
> > moreover, if everyone are comfortable with removing the details-pop-up upon
> > hover (see (2)), then there would be no hover conflicts in that sense.
> > [even if we decide to keep the details-pop-up - we can include the actions
> > in it, just like demonstrated in HostSetupNetworks-HoverPopUp.png, so there
> > will be only one consistent "behavior" upon hovering on the logical network
> > area]
> > 
> > my suggestion:
> > 
> > add a static action indication (e.g. gear icon), and upon hovering on it
> > (or hovering on the logical network rectangle in general), the actions-pop
> > -up (which may or may not contain also some network details - again, see
> > (2))
> > will appear [see attached HostSetupNetworks-EinavSuggestion.png]
> > 
> > * NOTE: Although we are discussing mainly logical networks, the solution
> > (or
> > the relevant parts of it) should be applied also to Bonds and NICs within
> > the same dialog.
> > 
> > "+1"s / "-1"s / comments / additional suggestions are welcome.
> > 
> > ----
> > Thanks,
> > Einav
> > 
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Karli Sjöberg" <Karli.Sjoberg at slu.se>
> > > To: "Lior Vernia" <lvernia at redhat.com>
> > > Cc: "Einav Cohen" <ecohen at redhat.com>, "info" <info at eldanet.com>, "Eldan
> > > Hildesheim" <ehildesh at redhat.com>,
> > > jas at cs.yorku.ca, "users" <users at ovirt.org>
> > > Sent: Friday, August 23, 2013 8:46:52 AM
> > > Subject: Re: [Users] Setup Host Network dialog - actions availability
> > > [ux][BZ#984737]
> > > 
> > > fre 2013-08-23 klockan 15:42 +0300 skrev Lior Vernia:
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > On 23/08/13 08:51, Karli Sjöberg wrote:
> > > > tor 2013-08-22 klockan 20:43 +0300 skrev Lior Vernia:
> > > >>
> > > >> On 22/08/13 20:04, Einav Cohen wrote:
> > > >> > Hi,
> > > >> >
> > > >> > This is about attempting to address the difficulty of finding the
> > > >> > edit-action in
> > > >> > the Setup Host Network dialog, as documented in "Bug 984737 -
> > > >> > usability:
> > > >> > webadmin
> > > >> > difficulty in assigning client ip, no gateway possible" in bugzilla.
> > > >> > We have a suggestion from Eldan (see attached
> > > >> > "HostSetupNetworks-HoverPopUp.png")
> > > >> > which was described in the BZ (comment #3) and seemed acceptable by
> > > >> > the
> > > >> > reporter
> > > >> > (comment #4), however IIUC - one of the main pain points described
> > > >> > in
> > > >> > the BZ was
> > > >> > the fact that the user could not find the option to Edit the
> > > >> > connection
> > > >> > properties
> > > >> > since he was looking in the wrong place, and needed to hover on the
> > > >> > correct place,
> > > >> > in order to find that option.
> > > >> > So although the idea is somewhat helpful, my concern is that this
> > > >> > solution is not
> > > >> > enough (comment #5).
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Another proposal from Malini (comment #6) is to add an "actions"
> > > >> > drop-down menu in
> > > >> > the form of a small "gear" icon-button - see attached
> > > >> > "HostSetupNetworks-DropDownMenu.png".
> > > >> > This proposal addresses my concern, however I have a question about
> > > >> > another concern
> > > >> > with this solution:
> > > >> > would the actions-drop-down menu-items panel be revealed appear upon
> > > >> > click or upon
> > > >> > hover?
> > > >> >
> > > >> > if it will be upon hover, it might seem weird/be conflicted/be
> > > >> > somewhat
> > > >> > confusing
> > > >> > with the hover functionality that reveals the logical-network
> > > >> > details
> > > >> > pop-up.
> > > >>
> > > >> If this proposal is accepted (see my comments below about both
> > > >> proposals), one solution might be to get rid of the network details
> > > >> tooltip. Most people probably don't use MTU,
> > > >
> > > > Just a FYI there Lior; we do:) And when 10GbE becomes available, Jumbo
> > > > Frames is going to be required to use all that bandwidth. Otherwise you
> > > > are capped at about half(500MB/s as opposed to 1,2GB/s).
> > > 
> > > And is it at all helpful to see it in the Host Setup Networks context?
> > > It is set in the DC context when adding or editing a network, to my
> > > understanding it doesn't have much to do with a specific host.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > No I agree, it´s not helpful at all, maybe even destructive. Why allow
> > > admins
> > > to mess around with different MTU's on different Hosts for the same
> > > network.
> > > Since MTU is set in the switches, the MTU must be the same for all Hosts
> > > on
> > > the same network, or one could wreak all kinds of havoc. What I was
> > > saying
> > > is not to forget that, for admins, MTU is a big deal, and makes a big
> > > difference in performance, is all.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > I'm guessing the main reason it's there is to give people a shot at
> > > guessing why their network appears out-of-sync, when it's caused by the
> > > MTU being configured differently on the host, but I don't think that
> > > would be easy to figure out anyway.
> > > 
> > > >
> > > > /Karli
> > > >
> > > >> and the rest is just
> > > >> explaining the network role icons; so maybe not that useful.
> > > >>
> > > >> > if it will be upon click, it means that in order to edit a logical
> > > >> > network, two
> > > >> > clicks will be required in order to get to the edit dialog, as
> > > >> > opposed
> > > >> > to one click
> > > >> > in the current state and in Eldan's suggestion.
> > > >> > maybe having two clicks in order to get to the edit dialog is
> > > >> > acceptable, however
> > > >> > there may be some solutions for that:
> > > >> >
> > > >> > one possible solution would be to combine both attached suggestions,
> > > >> > i.e. the actions
> > > >> > within the hover pop-up, as well as the actions drop-down menu,
> > > >> > however
> > > >> > it means that
> > > >> > there will be some redundancy of the actions availability.
> > > >>
> > > >> That sounds bad to me regardless of the other alternatives.
> > > >>
> > > >> > another possible solution is to keep only the gear + down-arrow icon
> > > >> > (or
> > > >> > maybe only
> > > >> > the down-arrow icon), without the actual drop-down menu there, just
> > > >> > in
> > > >> > order to indicate
> > > >> > that there are some options available in that area, and have Eldan's
> > > >> > pop-up appear when
> > > >> > hovering on that icon (or even on the entire logical-network area,
> > > >> > as
> > > >> > happens today with
> > > >> > the current details pop-up)
> > > >> >
> > > >> > thoughts?
> > > >>
> > > >> I like the gear icon because it's noticeable and easily recognizable.
> > > >> However, keep in mind that bonds should also have the same icon to
> > > >> keep
> > > >> a consistent design. Now imagine a configuration with several bonds on
> > > >> the left-hand-side and quite a few networks on the right-hand-side;
> > > >> I'm
> > > >> no designer, but it could get cluttered with all those gear icons.
> > > >>
> > > >> It MIGHT be preferable to use the other design (tooltip with action
> > > >> bar)
> > > >> and risk the odd person not easily finding it (no disrespect intended,
> > > >> Jason). I have no idea, however, if it's gonna be just the odd person
> > > >> or
> > > >> most people. I'd love to hear others' opinions.
> > > >>
> > > >> >
> > > >> > ----
> > > >> > Regards,
> > > >> > Einav
> > > >> >
> > > >> _______________________________________________
> > > >> Users mailing list
> > > >> Users at ovirt.org<mailto:Users at ovirt.org> <mailto:Users at ovirt.org>
> > > >> http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/users
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > >
> > > > Med Vänliga Hälsningar
> > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > Karli Sjöberg
> > > > Swedish University of Agricultural Sciences
> > > > Box 7079 (Visiting Address Kronåsvägen 8)
> > > > S-750 07 Uppsala, Sweden
> > > > Phone:  +46-(0)18-67 15 66
> > > > karli.sjoberg at slu.se<mailto:karli.sjoberg at slu.se>
> > > > <mailto:karli.sjoberg at adm.slu.se>
> > > >
> > > 
> > > 
> > > --
> > > 
> > > Med Vänliga Hälsningar
> > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > Karli Sjöberg
> > > Swedish University of Agricultural Sciences
> > > Box 7079 (Visiting Address Kronåsvägen 8)
> > > S-750 07 Uppsala, Sweden
> > > Phone:  +46-(0)18-67 15 66
> > > karli.sjoberg at slu.se<mailto:karli.sjoberg at adm.slu.se>
> > >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Users mailing list
> > Users at ovirt.org
> > http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/users
> > 
> > 
> >