Re: [Engine-devel] [oVirt/RHEV 3.3 Localization Question #13] "${ENTITIES_USING_VNIC_PROFILE_COUNTER}"

14 Aug 2013

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On 08/15/2013 01:16 AM, Moti Asayag wrote:
...
----- Original Message -----
...
From: "Yuko Katabami" <ykatabam@redhat.com>
To: "Moti Asayag" <masayag@redhat.com>
Cc: engine-devel@ovirt.org
Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2013 4:08:38 AM
Subject: Re: [Engine-devel] [oVirt/RHEV 3.3 Localization Question #13] "${ENTITIES_USING_VNIC_PROFILE_COUNTER}"
On 08/12/2013 05:26 PM, Yuko Katabami wrote:
...
On 08/12/2013 05:23 PM, Moti Asayag wrote:
...
----- Original Message -----
...
From: "Yuko Katabami"<ykatabam@redhat.com>
To: "Moti Asayag"<masayag@redhat.com>
Cc:engine-devel@ovirt.org
Sent: Monday, August 12, 2013 10:03:32 AM
Subject: Re: [Engine-devel] [oVirt/RHEV 3.3 Localization Question #13]
"${ENTITIES_USING_VNIC_PROFILE_COUNTER}"
On 08/12/2013 04:53 PM, Moti Asayag wrote:
...
----- Original Message -----
> From: "Yuko Katabami"<ykatabam@redhat.com>
> To:engine-devel@ovirt.org
> Sent: Monday, August 12, 2013 2:28:05 AM
> Subject: [Engine-devel] [oVirt/RHEV 3.3 Localization Question #13]
> 	"${ENTITIES_USING_VNIC_PROFILE_COUNTER}"
>
> Hi all,
>
> I would like to ask for your help again with the following questions:
>
> File: AppErrors
> Resource ID: ACTION_TYPE_FAILED_VNIC_PROFILE_IN_USE
> Strings: Cannot ${action} ${type}. Several ${entities}
> (${ENTITIES_USING_VNIC_PROFILE_COUNTER}) are using this VM network
> interface
> profile:
> ${ENTITIES_USING_VNIC_PROFILE}
> - Please remove it from all ${entities} that are using it and try
> again.
> Question:
> Is "${ENTITIES_USING_VNIC_PROFILE_COUNTER}" representing the number of
> entities using the VNIC profile?
Yes.
> Is it always greater than 1 or could it be 1 in some cases?
It can be 1 or greater.
> Is ${ENTITIES_USING_VNIC_PROFILE} representing the name(s) of entities
> using
> the the VNIC profile?
>
Yes.
Here are 2 examples for the error when the vnic profile is used by one
or
more vms:
A vnic profile used by a single entity:
Error while executing action: Cannot remove VM network interface
profile.
Several virtual machines (1) are using this VM network interface
profile:
vm1
- Please remove it from all virtual machines that are using it and try
again.
A vnic profile used by a two entities:
Error while executing action: Cannot remove VM network interface
profile.
Several virtual machines (2) are using this VM network interface
profile:
vm1,
vm2
- Please remove it from all virtual machines that are using it and try
again.
Hi Moti,
Thank you very much for your answer with actual examples. It is very
helpful.
In my language, I can translate this string in a way which works whether
the entity is single or plural, but I am not sure about other supported
locales.
I will share this with other translators and if it is problematic, I
will get back to you via this mailing list.
Please note that there are several messages that share the same format:
ACTION_TYPE_FAILED_NETWORK_IN_USE=Cannot ${action} ${type}. Several
${entities} (${ENTITIES_USING_NETWORK_COUNTER}) are using this logical
network:\n${ENTITIES_USING_NETWORK}\n - Please remove it from all
${entities} that are using it and try again.
ACTION_TYPE_FAILED_PROVIDER_NETWORKS_USED=Cannot ${action} ${type}.
Several external networks (${NETWORK_NAMES_COUNTER}) are being used by
virtual machines and/or templates:\n${NETWORK_NAMES}\n - Please resolve
the external networks usage first and try again.
Thank you Moti for this extra information.
I will also pass this onto other translators.
Very much appreciated.
Kind regards,
Yuko
Hi Moti,
I have discussed with other translators and confirmed that all those
three strings in the same format are problematic for localization.
The current format only works if the entity is plural.
In the example (with single entity) you have given:
*
**Error while executing action: Cannot remove VM network interface
profile.**
****_Several_ **virtual machine**_s_**(1) **_are_**using this VM network
interface profile:**
**vm1**
**- Please remove it from **_all_**__**virtual machine**_s_**that are
using it and try again.*
1) It has the word "several" and "all" preceding the entity. Those
adjectives do not work with a singular noun in all languages, and it
grammatically wrong in English as well.
2) ${entities} is shown always plural even it is singular "Virtual
Machines (1)" - this is not correct.
3) Verb "are" should only be used when the nominative is plural
We are wondering if the English strings (all three) can be changed to be
grammatically correct.
Is there a way they can be changed to comply to both singular and plural form ?
Or there is no escape from separating into 2 messages?
I'd rather the first option if possible.
Could you open a bug so we could keep track on it ?
Hi Moti,

Thank you very much for your reply.
I filed a bug: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=997197

I listed an option for change but that is not a complete solution and 
one problem remains.
Hope we can find a way to get it resolved.

Kind regards,

Yuko
...
...
(or perhaps separate strings for singular and plural?)
Kind regards,
Yuko
...
...
...
Thank you again for your help.
Kind regards,
Yuko
...
> Thank you,
>
> Yuko
> --
> Regards,
>
> Yuko Katabami (?????)
> Technical Translator II
> NAATI Accredited Professional Translator (English into Japanese) #28138
> RHCSA #111-119-244
> Mobile: +61 415 847 352
> Email:ykatabam@redhat.com
>
>
>
> Red Hat, Asia-Pacific Pty Ltd
> Level 1, 193 North Quay
> Brisbane 4000
> Office: +61 7 3514 8100
> Fax: +61 7 3514 8199
> Website:www.redhat.com
>
> Facebook: Red Hat APAC | Red Hat Japan | Red Hat Korea | JBoss APAC
> Twitter: Red Hat APAC | Red Hat ANZ
> LinkedIn: Red Hat APAC | JBoss APAC
>
> _______________________________________________
> Engine-devel mailing list
> Engine-devel@ovirt.org
> http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/engine-devel
>
--
Regards,
Yuko Katabami (?????)
Technical Translator II
NAATI Accredited Professional Translator (English into Japanese) #28138
RHCSA #111-119-244
*Mobile:* +61 415 847 352
*Email:*ykatabam@redhat.com
Red Hat
*Red Hat, Asia-Pacific Pty Ltd*
Level 1, 193 North Quay
Brisbane 4000
*Office:* +61 7 3514 8100
*Fax:* +61 7 3514 8199
*Website:*www.redhat.com  <http://www.redhat.com>
*Facebook:* Red Hat APAC<http://www.facebook.com/redhatapac>  | Red Hat
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JBoss APAC<http://www.linkedin.com/groups?gid=4068303>
--
Regards,
Yuko Katabami (?????)
Technical Translator II
NAATI Accredited Professional Translator (English into Japanese) #28138
RHCSA #111-119-244
*Mobile:* +61 415 847 352
*Email:* ykatabam@redhat.com
Red Hat
*Red Hat, Asia-Pacific Pty Ltd*
Level 1, 193 North Quay
Brisbane 4000
*Office:* +61 7 3514 8100
*Fax:* +61 7 3514 8199
*Website:* www.redhat.com <http://www.redhat.com>
*Facebook:* Red Hat APAC <http://www.facebook.com/redhatapac> | Red
Hat Japan <http://www.facebook.com/redhatjapan> | Red Hat Korea
<http://www.facebook.com/redhatkorea> | JBoss APAC
<http://www.facebook.com/JBossAPAC>
*Twitter:* Red Hat APAC <http://www.twitter.com/red_hat_apac> | Red
Hat ANZ <http://www.twitter.com/redhatanz>
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| JBoss APAC <http://www.linkedin.com/groups?gid=4068303>
_______________________________________________
Engine-devel mailing list
Engine-devel@ovirt.org
http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/engine-devel
--
Regards,
Yuko Katabami (?????)
Technical Translator II
NAATI Accredited Professional Translator (English into Japanese) #28138
RHCSA #111-119-244
*Mobile:* +61 415 847 352
*Email:* ykatabam@redhat.com
Red Hat
*Red Hat, Asia-Pacific Pty Ltd*
Level 1, 193 North Quay
Brisbane 4000
*Office:* +61 7 3514 8100
*Fax:* +61 7 3514 8199
*Website:* www.redhat.com <http://www.redhat.com>
*Facebook:* Red Hat APAC <http://www.facebook.com/redhatapac> | Red Hat
Japan <http://www.facebook.com/redhatjapan> | Red Hat Korea
<http://www.facebook.com/redhatkorea> | JBoss APAC
<http://www.facebook.com/JBossAPAC>
*Twitter:* Red Hat APAC <http://www.twitter.com/red_hat_apac> | Red Hat
ANZ <http://www.twitter.com/redhatanz>
*LinkedIn:* Red Hat APAC <http://www.linkedin.com/groups?gid=3124596> |
JBoss APAC <http://www.linkedin.com/groups?gid=4068303>
-- 
Regards,

Yuko Katabami (方波見裕子)
Technical Translator II
NAATI Accredited Professional Translator (English into Japanese) #28138
RHCSA #111-119-244
*Mobile:* +61 415 847 352
*Email:* ykatabam@redhat.com

Red Hat

*Red Hat, Asia-Pacific Pty Ltd*
Level 1, 193 North Quay
Brisbane 4000
*Office:* +61 7 3514 8100
*Fax:* +61 7 3514 8199
*Website:* www.redhat.com <http://www.redhat.com>

*Facebook:* Red Hat APAC <http://www.facebook.com/redhatapac> | Red Hat 
Japan <http://www.facebook.com/redhatjapan> | Red Hat Korea 
<http://www.facebook.com/redhatkorea> | JBoss APAC 
<http://www.facebook.com/JBossAPAC>
*Twitter:* Red Hat APAC <http://www.twitter.com/red_hat_apac> | Red Hat 
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JBoss APAC <http://www.linkedin.com/groups?gid=4068303>

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    <br>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 08/15/2013 01:16 AM, Moti Asayag
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote
      cite="mid:1302331076.2409744.1376493375005.JavaMail.root@redhat.com"
      type="cite">
      <pre wrap="">

----- Original Message -----
</pre>
      <blockquote type="cite">
        <pre wrap="">From: "Yuko Katabami" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:ykatabam@redhat.com"><ykatabam@redhat.com></a>
To: "Moti Asayag" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:masayag@redhat.com"><masayag@redhat.com></a>
Cc: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:engine-devel@ovirt.org">engine-devel@ovirt.org</a>
Sent: Tuesday, August 13, 2013 4:08:38 AM
Subject: Re: [Engine-devel] [oVirt/RHEV 3.3 Localization Question #13] "${ENTITIES_USING_VNIC_PROFILE_COUNTER}"

On 08/12/2013 05:26 PM, Yuko Katabami wrote:
</pre>
        <blockquote type="cite">
          <pre wrap="">
On 08/12/2013 05:23 PM, Moti Asayag wrote:
</pre>
          <blockquote type="cite">
            <pre wrap="">----- Original Message -----
</pre>
            <blockquote type="cite">
              <pre wrap="">From: "Yuko Katabami"<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:ykatabam@redhat.com"><ykatabam@redhat.com></a>
To: "Moti Asayag"<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:masayag@redhat.com"><masayag@redhat.com></a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Cc:engine-devel@ovirt.org">Cc:engine-devel@ovirt.org</a>
Sent: Monday, August 12, 2013 10:03:32 AM
Subject: Re: [Engine-devel] [oVirt/RHEV 3.3 Localization Question #13]
"${ENTITIES_USING_VNIC_PROFILE_COUNTER}"

On 08/12/2013 04:53 PM, Moti Asayag wrote:
</pre>
              <blockquote type="cite">
                <pre wrap="">----- Original Message -----
</pre>
                <blockquote type="cite">
                  <pre wrap="">From: "Yuko Katabami"<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:ykatabam@redhat.com"><ykatabam@redhat.com></a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:To:engine-devel@ovirt.org">To:engine-devel@ovirt.org</a>
Sent: Monday, August 12, 2013 2:28:05 AM
Subject: [Engine-devel] [oVirt/RHEV 3.3 Localization Question #13]
	"${ENTITIES_USING_VNIC_PROFILE_COUNTER}"

Hi all,

I would like to ask for your help again with the following questions:

File: AppErrors
Resource ID: ACTION_TYPE_FAILED_VNIC_PROFILE_IN_USE
Strings: Cannot ${action} ${type}. Several ${entities}
(${ENTITIES_USING_VNIC_PROFILE_COUNTER}) are using this VM network
interface
profile:
${ENTITIES_USING_VNIC_PROFILE}
- Please remove it from all ${entities} that are using it and try
again.
Question:
Is "${ENTITIES_USING_VNIC_PROFILE_COUNTER}" representing the number of
entities using the VNIC profile?
</pre>
                </blockquote>
                <pre wrap="">Yes.

</pre>
                <blockquote type="cite">
                  <pre wrap="">Is it always greater than 1 or could it be 1 in some cases?
</pre>
                </blockquote>
                <pre wrap="">It can be 1 or greater.

</pre>
                <blockquote type="cite">
                  <pre wrap="">Is ${ENTITIES_USING_VNIC_PROFILE} representing the name(s) of entities
using
the the VNIC profile?

</pre>
                </blockquote>
                <pre wrap="">Yes.

Here are 2 examples for the error when the vnic profile is used by one
or
more vms:

A vnic profile used by a single entity:
Error while executing action: Cannot remove VM network interface
profile.
Several virtual machines (1) are using this VM network interface
profile:
vm1
- Please remove it from all virtual machines that are using it and try
again.

A vnic profile used by a two entities:
Error while executing action: Cannot remove VM network interface
profile.
Several virtual machines (2) are using this VM network interface
profile:
vm1,
vm2
- Please remove it from all virtual machines that are using it and try
again.
</pre>
              </blockquote>
              <pre wrap="">Hi Moti,

Thank you very much for your answer with actual examples. It is very
helpful.

In my language, I can translate this string in a way which works whether
the entity is single or plural, but I am not sure about other supported
locales.
I will share this with other translators and if it is problematic, I
will get back to you via this mailing list.

</pre>
            </blockquote>
            <pre wrap="">Please note that there are several messages that share the same format:

ACTION_TYPE_FAILED_NETWORK_IN_USE=Cannot ${action} ${type}. Several
${entities} (${ENTITIES_USING_NETWORK_COUNTER}) are using this logical
network:\n${ENTITIES_USING_NETWORK}\n - Please remove it from all
${entities} that are using it and try again.

ACTION_TYPE_FAILED_PROVIDER_NETWORKS_USED=Cannot ${action} ${type}.
Several external networks (${NETWORK_NAMES_COUNTER}) are being used by
virtual machines and/or templates:\n${NETWORK_NAMES}\n - Please resolve
the external networks usage first and try again.
</pre>
          </blockquote>
          <pre wrap="">Thank you Moti for this extra information.
I will also pass this onto other translators.
Very much appreciated.

Kind regards,

Yuko
</pre>
        </blockquote>
        <pre wrap="">
Hi Moti,

I have discussed with other translators and confirmed that all those
three strings in the same format are problematic for localization.
The current format only works if the entity is plural.
In the example (with single entity) you have given:
*
**Error while executing action: Cannot remove VM network interface
profile.**
****_Several_ **virtual machine**_s_**(1) **_are_**using this VM network
interface profile:**
**vm1**
**- Please remove it from **_all_**__**virtual machine**_s_**that are
using it and try again.*

1) It has the word "several" and "all" preceding the entity. Those
adjectives do not work with a singular noun in all languages, and it
grammatically wrong in English as well.
2) ${entities} is shown always plural even it is singular "Virtual
Machines (1)" - this is not correct.
3) Verb "are" should only be used when the nominative is plural

We are wondering if the English strings (all three) can be changed to be
grammatically correct.
</pre>
      </blockquote>
      <pre wrap="">
Is there a way they can be changed to comply to both singular and plural form ?
Or there is no escape from separating into 2 messages?
I'd rather the first option if possible.

Could you open a bug so we could keep track on it ?</pre>
    </blockquote>
    Hi Moti,<br>
    <br>
    Thank you very much for your reply.<br>
    I filed a bug: <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=997197">https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=997197</a><br>
    <br>
    I listed an option for change but that is not a complete solution
    and one problem remains.<br>
    Hope we can find a way to get it resolved.<br>
    <br>
    Kind regards,<br>
    <br>
    Yuko<br>
    <blockquote
      cite="mid:1302331076.2409744.1376493375005.JavaMail.root@redhat.com"
      type="cite">
      <pre wrap="">

</pre>
      <blockquote type="cite">
        <pre wrap="">(or perhaps separate strings for singular and plural?)

Kind regards,

Yuko

</pre>
        <blockquote type="cite">
          <blockquote type="cite">
            <blockquote type="cite">
              <pre wrap="">Thank you again for your help.

Kind regards,

Yuko
</pre>
              <blockquote type="cite">
                <blockquote type="cite">
                  <pre wrap="">Thank you,

Yuko
--
Regards,

Yuko Katabami (?????)
Technical Translator II
NAATI Accredited Professional Translator (English into Japanese) #28138
RHCSA #111-119-244
Mobile: +61 415 847 352
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Email:ykatabam@redhat.com">Email:ykatabam@redhat.com</a>

Red Hat, Asia-Pacific Pty Ltd
Level 1, 193 North Quay
Brisbane 4000
Office: +61 7 3514 8100
Fax: +61 7 3514 8199
Website:www.redhat.com

Facebook: Red Hat APAC | Red Hat Japan | Red Hat Korea | JBoss APAC
Twitter: Red Hat APAC | Red Hat ANZ
LinkedIn: Red Hat APAC | JBoss APAC

_______________________________________________
Engine-devel mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Engine-devel@ovirt.org">Engine-devel@ovirt.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/engine-devel">http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/engine-devel</a>

</pre>
                </blockquote>
              </blockquote>
              <pre wrap="">--
Regards,

Yuko Katabami (?????)
Technical Translator II
NAATI Accredited Professional Translator (English into Japanese) #28138
RHCSA #111-119-244
*Mobile:* +61 415 847 352
*Email:*ykatabam@redhat.com

Red Hat

*Red Hat, Asia-Pacific Pty Ltd*
Level 1, 193 North Quay
Brisbane 4000
*Office:* +61 7 3514 8100
*Fax:* +61 7 3514 8199
*Website:*www.redhat.com  <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="http://www.redhat.com"><http://www.redhat.com></a>

*Facebook:* Red Hat APAC<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="http://www.facebook.com/redhatapac"><http://www.facebook.com/redhatapac></a>  | Red Hat
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</pre>
            </blockquote>
          </blockquote>
          <pre wrap="">
--
Regards,

Yuko Katabami (?????)
Technical Translator II
NAATI Accredited Professional Translator (English into Japanese) #28138
RHCSA #111-119-244
*Mobile:* +61 415 847 352
*Email:* <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:ykatabam@redhat.com">ykatabam@redhat.com</a>

Red Hat

*Red Hat, Asia-Pacific Pty Ltd*
Level 1, 193 North Quay
Brisbane 4000
*Office:* +61 7 3514 8100
*Fax:* +61 7 3514 8199
*Website:* <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.redhat.com">www.redhat.com</a> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="http://www.redhat.com"><http://www.redhat.com></a>

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</pre>
        </blockquote>
        <pre wrap="">
--
Regards,

Yuko Katabami (?????)
Technical Translator II
NAATI Accredited Professional Translator (English into Japanese) #28138
RHCSA #111-119-244
*Mobile:* +61 415 847 352
*Email:* <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:ykatabam@redhat.com">ykatabam@redhat.com</a>

Red Hat

*Red Hat, Asia-Pacific Pty Ltd*
Level 1, 193 North Quay
Brisbane 4000
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</pre>
      </blockquote>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
    <div class="moz-signature">-- <br>
      <font color="#000000" face="arial, sans-serif" size="2"> Regards,
        <br>
        <br>
        Yuko Katabami (方波見裕子) <br>
        Technical Translator II <br>
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        #28138 <br>
        RHCSA #111-119-244 <br>
        <b>Mobile:</b> +61 415 847 352 <br>
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