Re: [Engine-devel] Remove Comment column in main tabs

I am OK with that. @Mike/others - any objections for placing the Comment column with an icon-ed tooltip-ed title to the right of the Name column? [are we tracking it in a BZ? is someone volunteering to take care of this?] Malini, I missed your earlier reference to sort sequence, I apologize. I am not familiar with sort sequence other than Ascending/Descending; do you happen to have an example for something that uses sort sequence for something other than/in addition to Ascending/Descending? It sounds interesting. ---- Thanks, Einav ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Malini Rao" <mrao(a)redhat.com&gt; > To: "Einav Cohen" <ecohen(a)redhat.com&gt; > Cc: "engine-devel" <engine-devel(a)ovirt.org&gt; > Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2013 9:24:21 AM > Subject: Re: [Engine-devel] Remove Comment column in main tabs > > --- Original Message ----- > > From: "Einav Cohen" <ecohen(a)redhat.com&gt; > > To: "Malini Rao" <mrao(a)redhat.com&gt; > > Cc: "engine-devel" <engine-devel(a)ovirt.org&gt;, "Mike Kolesnik" > > <mkolesni(a)redhat.com&gt; > > Sent: Wednesday, November 27, 2013 8:18:38 AM > > Subject: Re: [Engine-devel] Remove Comment column in main tabs > > > > > That is a good point. I guess the question is if sorting will be > > > necessary > > > on > > > comments since it is available on hover only anyway and I am not sure an > > > alphabetical sort would be very useful in finding a particular comment > > > > what I had in mind is Boolean sorting (i.e. similar to sorting according to > > the 'attachment' field in e-mail - sort by existence, and not by content). > > > > > > > If the comment is relatively unimportant, then I think it would be > > > reasonable > > > to leave it where it is today. > > > > In my view (and I think that Mike implied that on his last reply as well), > > the comment can be pretty important; the comment is meant for dynamic > > notifications on the object. So I would imagine a comment to be something > > like "!! do not shutdown this VM! it is being installed with xyz!!" which > > is probably important enough to not be "hidden" in a distant column. > > > > [my suggestion earlier to keep it in its current location was merely for > > doing minimal changes, without changing anything in the primary-columns > > area or "making things worse" comment-wise, while saving real-estate; but > > if we can easily do a change that will also make the 'comment' column more > > noticeable, it is better] > > I am sure many examples abound for good and not so god paradigms. Even though > I recommend other means of displaying info that apply only to some cases > instead of dedicating a column for it, to come to a consensus for the short > term, I think we can all agree to place this column to the right of the name > column. This way, it is separated from the other two icons but still close > to the name to gather attention. > > > > > > Maybe if we decide not to implement the recommendation I sent earlier, we > > > could move the comment column to display after the name column. This way > > > it > > > is not lost at the very end esp because its presence is known only via a > > > small icon. > > > > I don't feel strongly one way or another; I think it is acceptable to make > > this column adjacent to the 'Name' column either on its left or right side > > (see also Mike's Gmail example from his last reply on this thread - it is > > really not that bad, in my view, to have another column to the left). > > > Thanks > Malini > > > > ----- > > Thanks, > > Einav > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Malini Rao" <mrao(a)redhat.com&gt; > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2013 5:03:44 PM > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: "Einav Cohen" <ecohen(a)redhat.com&gt; > > > > To: "Malini Rao" <mrao(a)redhat.com&gt; > > > > Cc: "engine-devel" <engine-devel(a)ovirt.org&gt; > > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2013 4:19:55 PM > > > > Subject: Re: [Engine-devel] Remove Comment column in main tabs > > > > > > > > Hi Malini, > > > > > > > > > This could work but I am not a big fan of simply adding iconic > > > > > columns > > > > > preceding the name. This is actually a good example where 2 icon > > > > > columns > > > > > are > > > > > already there and adding another column is making the primary column > > > > > ( > > > > > i.e > > > > > the name column) not seem like the first column the eye focuses on. > > > > > > > > not sure that I completely agree with that: if I am taking my e-mail > > > > client, > > > > for example - it has a lot of icon columns that precede the primary > > > > columns > > > > ('From', 'Subject'), however I don't think that it makes the primary > > > > columns > > > > any less 'catchy' (see attached > > > > 'e-mail-client--a-lot-of-preceding-icons.png'). > > > > Having said that - it may depend on the actual content of the icon > > > > columns > > > > (i.e. in my e-mail example, the icon-columns are mostly empty, whereas > > > > in > > > > the > > > > VMs main tab example, at least the 'status' and 'vm-type' icon columns > > > > are > > > > expected to always contain some icon), so not sure. > > > > > > Einav, I do take your point. That said, I don't think the screenshot you > > > sent > > > me would be considered a good example of something well designed - at > > > least > > > not in terms of the number of columns with icons. Also, it kind of works > > > because the subject column which is possibly what the user will focus on > > > is > > > the widest. > > > > > > > > > > > > I understand that it is not as easy implementation-wise but in the > > > > > effort > > > > > to > > > > > start moving towards a more elegant solution, I am wondering if we > > > > > can > > > > > cash > > > > > in on what users may have learned in spreadsheet software and use a > > > > > dog > > > > > ear > > > > > image at the corner of the name cell ( See attached). This way, we > > > > > are > > > > > not > > > > > dedicating any more space and it does not take away space allotted to > > > > > the > > > > > text string either. The visual details of the icon are not final and > > > > > this > > > > > is > > > > > sent to communicate an idea only. If we agree on this, I will send > > > > > the > > > > > final > > > > > icon to use. > > > > > > > > this solution is nice and elegant - I like it; > > > > my main concern is that I am not sure how will we be able to sort the > > > > items > > > > by that field if we won't have a dedicated column for it (once column > > > > sorting > > > > will be available in general, of course). > > > > > > That is a good point. I guess the question is if sorting will be > > > necessary > > > on > > > comments since it is available on hover only anyway and I am not sure an > > > alphabetical sort would be very useful in finding a particular comment. > > > In > > > general, once we have that feature, it may be worthwhile to consider what > > > columns need sorting and not necessarily have every available column in > > > the > > > list have that ability. What could be useful in this case is to sort by > > > all > > > the rows that do have a comment on them and that could potentially be > > > incorporated into the sort sequence - for e.g, unsorted, alphanumeric > > > Asc,alphanumeric desc, presence of comment on top, unsorted. > > > > > > > > > > my other concern is indeed the implementation effort that would need to > > > > be > > > > involved in it. > > > > > > > > Question is if it is something that is worth considering if we decide > > > > that > > > > the > > > > extra-icon-column solution is acceptable. > > > > > > The extra-icon-column solution is not whacky or unacceptable but it > > > creates > > > these empty spaces or tiled patterns depending on whether it is filled or > > > not and it also takes up space all the time. > > > > > > > > > > > Another option (at least for the short term) for solving the > > > > real-estate > > > > problem > > > > without changing anything in the primary column area is to keep the > > > > 'Comment' > > > > column in its current location, only replace its textual title with an > > > > icon > > > > title > > > > (see attached 'move-comment-column--option-1-variation.png'). > > > > > > I was thinking along these lines as well. Maybe if we decide not to > > > implement > > > the recommendation I sent earlier, we could move the comment column to > > > display after the name column. This way it is not lost at the very end > > > esp > > > because its presence is known only via a small icon. If the comment is > > > relatively unimportant, then I think it would be reasonable to leave it > > > where it is today. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thoughts? > > > > > > > > > > -Malini > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: "Einav Cohen" <ecohen(a)redhat.com&gt; > > > > > To: "Daniel Erez" <derez(a)redhat.com&gt; > > > > > Cc: "Malini Rao" <mrao(a)redhat.com&gt;, "Mike Kolesnik" > > > > > <mkolesni(a)redhat.com&gt;, > > > > > "engine-devel" <engine-devel(a)ovirt.org&gt; > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2013 11:44:49 AM > > > > > Subject: Re: [Engine-devel] Remove Comment column in main tabs > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > From: "Daniel Erez" <derez(a)redhat.com&gt; > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2013 11:24:30 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > From: "Einav Cohen" <ecohen(a)redhat.com&gt; > > > > > > > To: "Malini Rao" <mrao(a)redhat.com&gt;, "Mike Kolesnik" > > > > > > > <mkolesni(a)redhat.com&gt; > > > > > > > Cc: "engine-devel" <engine-devel(a)ovirt.org&gt; > > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2013 6:17:18 PM > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [Engine-devel] Remove Comment column in main tabs > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > > From: "Malini Rao" <mrao(a)redhat.com&gt; > > > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2013 11:06:17 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > > > From: "Eli Mesika" <emesika(a)redhat.com&gt; > > > > > > > > > To: "Mike Kolesnik" <mkolesni(a)redhat.com&gt; > > > > > > > > > Cc: "engine-devel" <engine-devel(a)ovirt.org&gt; > > > > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2013 4:05:37 AM > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [Engine-devel] Remove Comment column in main > > > > > > > > > tabs > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > > > > > > From: "Mike Kolesnik" <mkolesni(a)redhat.com&gt; > > > > > > > > > > To: "engine-devel" <engine-devel(a)ovirt.org&gt; > > > > > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2013 8:44:34 AM > > > > > > > > > > Subject: [Engine-devel] Remove Comment column in main tabs > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When the comment RFE was added (in 3.3), there was also a > > > > > > > > > > column > > > > > > > > > > added > > > > > > > > > > to > > > > > > > > > > many main tabs. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I would like to propose to get rid of the column (which can > > > > > > > > > > only > > > > > > > > > > house > > > > > > > > > > one > > > > > > > > > > icon or no icon), > > > > > > > > > > and instead if there's a comment on an entity just display > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > icon > > > > > > > > > > with > > > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > > > tooltip adjacent to the name. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In this case the icon should probably be scaled down a bit > > > > > > > > > > since > > > > > > > > > > its > > > > > > > > > > huge. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think this would be a good alternative and save us some > > > > > > > > > > valued > > > > > > > > > > screen > > > > > > > > > > real > > > > > > > > > > estate. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thoughts, opinions? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > +1 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > +1. But isn't there a limitation on appending an icon to a > > > > > > > > column > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > already has content? Also to fully consider pros and cons - if > > > > > > > > it > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > possible, we have to think of where to append this icon - > > > > > > > > prefix > > > > > > > > or > > > > > > > > suffix. > > > > > > > > If we prefix, then it is likely that some names will be > > > > > > > > preceded > > > > > > > > by > > > > > > > > 2 > > > > > > > > icons > > > > > > > > because many of our lists have an icon already in the first > > > > > > > > column. > > > > > > > > If > > > > > > > > it > > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > > suffixed, the relative position on the icon will change based > > > > > > > > on > > > > > > > > how > > > > > > > > long > > > > > > > > the name is and if the object names tend to be long, then > > > > > > > > potentially, > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > icon is taking some room away. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > see attached two options (both comparing the current state and a > > > > > > > suggested > > > > > > > state in the VMs main tab) - not sure which one Mike had in mind. > > > > > > > option #1 is easy to implement while option #2, as Malini > > > > > > > mentioned, > > > > > > > may > > > > > > > be more difficult to implement. > > > > > > > also need to keep in mind that the today, the comment column > > > > > > > real-estate > > > > > > > is > > > > > > > taken mostly by the column title; therefore if we lose the title, > > > > > > > we > > > > > > > should > > > > > > > indicate in some other manner that this is the comment field of > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > object > > > > > > > (e.g. within the tooltip - also demonstrated in the attached). > > > > > > > > > > > > +1 > > > > > > I think that an image header might be a good solution. > > > > > > E.g. an image of a post-it note instead of the title. > > > > > > > > > > good idea - we can display a "comment" tool-tip when hovering on the > > > > > title-icon > > > > > and, like today, display only the comment value within the tool-tip > > > > > when > > > > > hovering > > > > > on the regular-row-icon (see attached). > > > > > [we already have icon-column-titles in the application, e.g. > > > > > "shareable", > > > > > "bootable" > > > > > in the Disks grid, so it shouldn't be hard to implement] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also worth considering is the fact that if we prefix the icon > > > > > > > > only > > > > > > > > on > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > rows where it is needed, it will be in a position that will > > > > > > > > definitely > > > > > > > > grab > > > > > > > > attention. So, it may be worthwhile to see if this is the icon > > > > > > > > that > > > > > > > > we > > > > > > > > should place here or if there is any other icon that deserves > > > > > > > > this > > > > > > > > attention > > > > > > > > in a consistent manner across entities. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > While on the topic, it will also be a great idea IMHO to take a > > > > > > > > look > > > > > > > > at > > > > > > > > our > > > > > > > > various lists and see what columns are actually valuable for a > > > > > > > > default > > > > > > > > display. I think we are working on adding the ability to select > > > > > > > > columns > > > > > > > > for > > > > > > > > display and so the columns that we remove can be added back in > > > > > > > > by > > > > > > > > users > > > > > > > > when > > > > > > > > they want but do not sit there taking up room permanently. If > > > > > > > > anyone > > > > > > > > has > > > > > > > > ideas on what the default columns should be for one or many of > > > > > > > > the > > > > > > > > lists > > > > > > > > in > > > > > > > > our product, do send it to me. I will be willing to compile and > > > > > > > > consolidate > > > > > > > > the list and then post it back to the group for consideration. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > Mike > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > > > > Engine-devel mailing list > > > > > > > > > > Engine-devel(a)ovirt.org > > > > > > > > > > http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/engine-devel > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > > > Engine-devel mailing list > > > > > > > > > Engine-devel(a)ovirt.org > > > > > > > > > http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/engine-devel > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > > Engine-devel mailing list > > > > > > > > Engine-devel(a)ovirt.org > > > > > > > > http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/engine-devel > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > > Engine-devel mailing list > > > > > > > Engine-devel(a)ovirt.org > > > > > > > http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/engine-devel > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > Engine-devel mailing list > > > > > Engine-devel(a)ovirt.org > > > > > http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/engine-devel > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Engine-devel mailing list > > > Engine-devel(a)ovirt.org > > > http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/engine-devel > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Engine-devel mailing list > Engine-devel(a)ovirt.org > http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/engine-devel > > >