Re: [ovirt-devel] Gluster Volume Snapshots - Feature review

> ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Shubhendu Tripathi" <shtripat(a)redhat.com&gt; > Sent: Thursday, January 1, 2015 10:05:48 AM > > On 12/31/2014 11:42 PM, Einav Cohen wrote: >> Thanks, Shubhendu. Additional comments: >> >>> ... >>> Yes, attempt to create second snapshot schedule is actually an override >>> option. Of course spot creation is allowed in addition to the scheduled. >>> ... >>> ... >>> If the option Volumes -> Snapshots -> New selected, the dialog opens >>> with pre-populated snapshot name prefix and Recurrence type selected as >>> None by default. This effectively is one time snapshot creation. >>> If this is first time and user wants to schedule the snapshot creation, >>> he/she can change the recurrence type and provide details. Snapshot >>> creation is scheduled in this case. >>> Later, it user wants to edit the schedule, he/she needs to select option >>> Volumes -> Snapshots -> Schedule (may be for this reason only I want to >>> call it Edit Schedule). So effectively option Volumes -> Snapshots -> >>> Schedule is meant for only re-scheduling the snapshot creation. If its >>> not yet scheduled dialog opens with recurrence type selected as None. >>> ... >> From your latest responses, I conclude the following. >> >> via the "New" dialog, you can: >> >> (1) create a one-time snapshot >> (2) create a new snapshot schedule >> (3) override (and practically, edit) an existing snapshot schedule >> >> via the "Schedule" dialog, you can: >> >> (a) create a one-time snapshot (by selecting the 'None' recurrence) >> (b) create a new snapshot schedule (by selecting something other than >> 'None' in the recurrence field, given that no schedule exists yet) >> (c) edit an existing snapshot schedule (which is what this dialog is >> actually meant to do). >> >> I am not sure about (a), but it doesn't matter much for my point: "New" >> and "Schedule" have the exact same functionality. To be more accurate: >> "New" contains all of the needed functionality; "Schedule" is not really >> needed. The only thing that "New" is potentially missing is showing the >> values of the already-existing snapshot schedule, if one exists. >> >> I think that this may confuse to the user; I recommend to either >> unite both of these actions/dialogs to a single action/dialog, or >> separate completely some functionalists. >> >> So my recommendation is to do one of the following: >> >> (a) unite: >> Have a single action ("Create / Schedule") which will display a >> dialog very similar to the "New" dialog, with the option to see the >> values of the already-existing snapshot schedule, if one exists. >> In this case, I would actually recommend to go with something more >> similar to option 2 in http://i.imgur.com/4j7hvRY.png, rather than >> option 3 (so the separation between *creating new* *one-time* >> snapshot and *editing an existing* *scheduled* snapshot is clearer). >> see http://i.imgur.com/ZgCp9Tz.png for an updated suggestion. >> >> - or - >> >> (b) separate: >> Have two completely separate actions: "Create Now" and "Schedule". >> >> - The "Create Now" dialog will look like the 'General' side-section >> of the "New" dialog (i.e. without the "Schedule" side-section; >> it will allow only one-time immediate snapshot creation. >> >> - The "Schedule" dialog will look like the "New" dialog (with both >> 'General' and 'Schedule' side-sections) without the "None" recurrence, >> and will allow only creating a new recurring snapshot schedule (if one >> doesn't exist yet) or editing the existing schedule (in this case, the >> dialog would be pre-populated with the values of the existing schedule). >> >> I am more in favor of (b) - it seems simpler and more user-friendly in >> my view. > Option (b) is something which we had started with, then at later stage > it was discussed that scheduling as well should be in the flow of > creation of snapshot so merged with New Snapshot option. After this as > we need Edit option for snapshot schedule, so introduced Schedule option. > > But still, as you suggest I feel option (b) is no doubt a clearer and > user friendly way. > > Alok, need a point of view from PMs on this. Thanks, Shubhendu. @Alok (and all): the main pain-point in the current design that I am trying to address is the fact that in the 'New' dialog, you have the option to create a one- time snapshot, and within the same dialog, with a very small (too small IMO) change, you have the option to edit (override) an already-existing schedule, without even realizing necessarily that you are editing something (since you are in a 'New' dialog) and without seeing the values of the object that you are editing. From a UX perspective, this may be confusing and misleading. if it is imperative to combine the one-time creation functionality with the scheduling functionality, you have option (a). here is another option (c) that will allow you to create a one-time snapshot and *create* a new schedule in the same dialog. it is also probably the closest option to the original design in the wiki, so I encourage you to consider it: (c) Have two options, "New" and "Schedule", like today. - "New" will be *only* for creating new objects, not editing/overriding existing ones. It will look very similar to "New" in the current design, including the "None" recurrence that I have suggested before. * In case a schedule doesn't exist yet - "New" will have both the 'General' and 'Schedule' sections, like today, allowing creating a one- time snapshot as well as creating a new snapshot schedule. * In case a schedule already exists - "New" will have only the 'General' side-section (the 'Schedule' side-section will not be displayed), allowing only creation of new one-time snapshots. - "Schedule": * In case a schedule doesn't exist yet - two options: i. disable this button (i.e. force the user to create a new schedule via "New"); in this case, I agree with Shubhendu on renaming the button to "Edit Schedule". - or - ii. have the dialog look exactly like "New" today, without the "None" recurrence option; so only new schedule can be created, not one-time snapshots. One-time snapshots should be created only via "New". * In case a schedule already exists - the dialog will look like "New", without the 'General' section (i.e. very similar to the mock-up of the "Schedule" dialog in the ovirt wiki today), pre-populated with the current values of the existing schedule. Your thoughts/comments are welcome. Thank you.

> >> Your comments/thoughts are welcome. >> >> Thanks! >> >> ---- >> Regards, >> Einav >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Shubhendu Tripathi" <shtripat(a)redhat.com&gt; >>> To: "Einav Cohen" <ecohen(a)redhat.com&gt; >>> Cc: devel(a)linode01.ovirt.org, "rhsc-dev" <rhsc-dev(a)redhat.com&gt; >>> Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2014 12:56:44 AM >>> Subject: Re: [ovirt-devel] Gluster Volume Snapshots - Feature review >>> >>> Hi Einav, >>> >>> Find the comments inline. >>> >>> Thanks and Regards, >>> Shubhendu >>> >>> On 12/30/2014 11:13 PM, Einav Cohen wrote: >>>> Thank you, Shubhendu! I have a few more comments: >>>> >>>>> Yes that's true for most of the cases. But having Options setting from >>>>> sub-tab, not sure if that's correct. May be "New" is fine. >>>> I think that if a user already got to the "Snapshots" sub-tab of a >>>> specific Volume, it would seem strange that not all Snapshots-related >>>> actions for that Volume are available from there - but I will leave it >>>> to your discretion; I think that "New" is indeed the most important one >>>> to have also in the sub-tab. >>> We may have the New option available under sub tab as well. Setting >>> configuration options would only be available in Volumes main tab. >>> >>>>> Once scheduled the only way to stop snapshot creation is to provide an >>>>> end date. >>>> let me try and understand what are the exact snapshot creation >>>> capabilities. >>>> consider the following use-cases (which may make absolutely no sense, >>>> just giving these as examples in order to understand the capabilities): >>>> >>>> (1) let's say that I want to do two recurring snapshots schedules in >>>> parallel for a single volume: one Monthly, and another one Weekly. >>>> Can I do that? >>> We can have only one schedule for a volume at a time. >>> >>>> I am assuming that I can't, i.e. there can only be one >>>> recurring-snapshot- >>>> creation schedule per volume (which you create via "New" and edit via >>>> "Schedule") - is that correct? If so: are you blocking an attempt to >>>> create a "New" recurring snapshot schedule when one already exists for >>>> this Volume (e.g. disable the "New" button, fail a CanDoAction with a >>>> message such as "Cannot create snapshot scheduling. A snapshot scheduling >>>> already exists for this Volume", etc.) or allowing override of the >>>> already- >>>> existing schedule (with a proper warning)? >>> Even if a volume snapshot creation is scheduled user can still opt for >>> onetime spot snapshot creation and New would be available. >>> >>>> If my assumption is wrong, and I can have two (or more) recurring- >>>> snapshot-creation schedules per volume: how do I *edit* these schedules? >>>> what happens when I click on "Schedule"? which one of the two schedules >>>> will I edit? The Weekly one? The Monthly one? >>> As there is only one schedule for a volume at a time, so this is not >>> valid scenario. Exiting single instance of schedule can be edited using >>> the option Volumes -> Snapshots -> Schedule. May be if you suggest this >>> option can be renamed to "Edit Schedule". >>> >>>> If I am comparing the terminology to the one of Calendar meeting schedule >>>> (see http://i.imgur.com/xvf5w30.png): I don't have any "series" objects >>>> that I can 'edit', I can see only "instances", and I can edit only one >>>> "global" 'series' object via the "Schedule" button. >>>> [again: if there can only be one recurring-snapshot-creation schedule per >>>> volume, then the current design is OK, assuming the attempt to create a >>>> second snapshot-schedule for a volume is properly blocked/overridden/...] >>> Yes, attempt to create second snapshot schedule is actually an override >>> option. Of course spot creation is allowed in addition to the scheduled. >>> >>>> (2) let's say that I want to do a weekly recurring snapshot scheduling >>>> for >>>> a certain volume. In addition to that weekly recurring snapshots, I want >>>> to take a one-time snapshot of this volume right now. Can I do that? >>> Yes, as discussed above stop one time creation in addition to the >>> scheduled is allowed. >>> >>>> If so: then my suggestion [http://i.imgur.com/4j7hvRY.png, option 3] is >>>> indeed valid; I am assuming that the user can create, per volume: one >>>> recurring snapshot schedule + unlimited one-time snapshots. >>> Yes. That's correct. >>> >>>> [If the user can create two (or more) recurring snapshot schedules - see >>>> (1) above]. >>>> need to make sure that the user is able to create a "New" snapshot with >>>> the "Weekly" recurrence schedule, and then another "New" snapshot(s) with >>>> the "None" recurrence schedule, which will create the one-time >>>> snapshot(s) >>>> immediately, and that the schedule of the Weekly snapshot can be edited >>>> via the "Schedule" option. >>> So it goes like this. Say a Weekly snapshot is scheduled for certain >>> volume and later user wants to create single on-spot snapshot. For this >>> he/she need to select the option Volumes -> Snapshots -> New and not >>> Volumes -> Snapshots -> Schedule. By default the option None is selected >>> as Recurrence type and it creates a one time snapshot. Still the >>> schedule stands valid in the system and if the user wants to edit the >>> schedule he/she need to select the option Volumes -> Snapshots -> >>> Schedule. Hope this clarifies. >>> >>>> If not (i.e. the user can create only one recurring snapshot schedule, >>>> and that's it - no additional recurring snapshot schedules, no one-time >>>> immediate snapshots, etc.), then my suggestion is invalid, and a 'None' >>>> recurrence is not needed. >>> As said above, one time snapshot creation is still allowed in addition >>> to the scheduled. (Using Volumes -> Snapshots -> New option) >>> >>>> In this case, just need to make sure that the 'Schedule' side-section of >>>> the dialog will be pre-populated with the most common/reasonable >>>> recurrence >>>> schedule, in case the user will not touch it. >>>> BTW, if this is indeed the case, then there is probably no need for both >>>> 'New' and 'Schedule' buttons - only 'Schedule' is sufficient. >>>> >>>>> Accept. The snapshot create dialog itself can be used here. >>>> Just need to make sure to change its title accordingly (to 'Schedule >>>> Snapshot' or something similar; right now it says "New Snapshot" in >>>> the wiki). >>>> >>>> I assume that this dialog can be used for: >>>> >>>> (a) creating a New snapshot schedule (which should look very similar >>>> to the 'New Snapshot' dialog, maybe with some pre-populated values, >>>> maybe without the 'None' option in the Recurrence drop-down). >>> If the option Volumes -> Snapshots -> New selected, the dialog opens >>> with pre-populated snapshot name prefix and Recurrence type selected as >>> None by default. This effectively is one time snapshot creation. >>> If this is first time and user wants to schedule the snapshot creation, >>> he/she can change the recurrence type and provide details. Snapshot >>> creation is scheduled in this case. >>> Later, it user wants to edit the schedule, he/she needs to select option >>> Volumes -> Snapshots -> Schedule (may be for this reason only I want to >>> call it Edit Schedule). So effectively option Volumes -> Snapshots -> >>> Schedule is meant for only re-scheduling the snapshot creation. If its >>> not yet scheduled dialog opens with recurrence type selected as None. >>> >>>> - and/or - >>>> >>>> (b) editing the already-existing schedule (in this case, fields that >>>> cannot be edited should be disabled). >>> As above. >>> >>>> I hope I was clear - please let me know if you have any questions or >>>> comments. >>>> >>>> Thanks again! >>>> >>>> ---- >>>> Regards, >>>> Einav >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> From: "Shubhendu Tripathi" <shtripat(a)redhat.com&gt; >>>>> To: "Einav Cohen" <ecohen(a)redhat.com&gt; >>>>> Cc: devel(a)linode01.ovirt.org, "rhsc-dev" <rhsc-dev(a)redhat.com&gt; >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2014 7:09:51 AM >>>>> Subject: Re: [ovirt-devel] Gluster Volume Snapshots - Feature review >>>>> >>>>> Thanks Einav for the detailed review and your comments. >>>>> Find below the comment inline. >>>>> >>>>> Will update the wiki accordingly and circulate. >>>>> >>>>> Team, please provide your thoughts (if conflicting) on this. >>>>> >>>>> Thanks and Regards, >>>>> Shubhendu >>>>> >>>>> On 12/30/2014 05:33 AM, Einav Cohen wrote: >>>>>> Hi Shubhendu, >>>>>> >>>>>> First of all - very detailed wiki pages (I focused mainly on the >>>>>> User Experience part) - nicely done. >>>>>> >>>>>> I have a couple of comments / suggestions regarding the GUI: >>>>>> >>>>>> Snapshot action-group: >>>>>> >>>>>> - from the wiki page: >>>>>> """ >>>>>> A new action-group "Snapshot" would be introduced under actions >>>>>> for a volume. >>>>>> """ >>>>>> I assume that you will implement it similarly to the "Power Management" >>>>>> action-group (on Hosts main tab) or the "Profiling" action-group (on >>>>>> the Volumes tab), i.e. with a drop-down-like styling >>>>>> [http://i.imgur.com/eWRg6o8.png]? >>>>> Yes. That's correct. >>>>> >>>>>> - If the Snapshot-related actions are expected to be core/critical in >>>>>> the Volumes-related workflows, it makes sense to put them in the main- >>>>>> tab, but please consider adding them to the Snapshots sub-tab as well, >>>>>> in order to be consistent with other similar oVirt workflows. >>>>> Yes that's true for most of the cases. But having Options setting from >>>>> sub-tab, not sure if that's correct. May be "New" is fine. >>>>> >>>>>> New Snapshot dialog -> Schedule section: >>>>>> >>>>>> - I suggest to implement the time-interval selection with a drop-down, >>>>>> rather than a radio-button group; it is more consistent with e.g. >>>>>> event-repeat scheduling in a calendar [http://i.imgur.com/y9Gn3wq.png], >>>>>> it will save real-estate within the dialog and it will be more easily >>>>>> readable for the user. >>>>> That's a good suggestion. Will do this. >>>>> >>>>>> - to my understanding, the New Snapshot functionality doesn't have to >>>>>> be recurrent; however, there isn't any way to "disable" the recurring >>>>>> aspect. Here are some suggestions to how this should be added: >>>>>> http://i.imgur.com/4j7hvRY.png >>>>> Once scheduled the only way to stop snapshot creation is to provide an >>>>> end date. >>>>> >>>>>> Option 3 is my personal favorite - it is the simplest, and is >>>>>> consistent >>>>>> with Calendear-scheduling UI. Option 1 is my least favorite, however it >>>>>> is consistent with e.g. the "Enable Power Management" UI within the >>>>>> "New >>>>>> Host" dialog. >>>>> Option-3 looks good to me as well. Should be doable I feel. >>>>> >>>>>> Snapshots -> Options: >>>>>> >>>>>> - I think that there are a couple of problematic issues with this >>>>>> dialog: >>>>>> >>>>>> * the different functionality of this dialog when a Volume is >>>>>> selected >>>>>> vs. when no Volume is selected may be unclear to the user. >>>>> Agree >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> * the fact that we can update Cluster-related parameters (which >>>>>> potentially affects *all* volumes in that Cluster) within a specific >>>>>> Volume-context dialog is a bit risky - and we don't have anything >>>>>> similar >>>>>> to that anywhere in the application today IIRC. >>>>>> >>>>>> my recommendations: >>>>>> >>>>>> * have separate "Options - Cluster" and "Options - Volume" >>>>>> actions; >>>>>> "Options - Cluster" should always be enabled. >>>>>> "Options - Volume" should be enabled only when a Volume is selected. >>>>> Accept >>>>> >>>>>> * Seehttp://i.imgur.com/pfRpjrH.png for my suggestion for >>>>>> "Cluster >>>>>> Options" vs. "Volume Options". Note that from the "Volume Options" >>>>>> dialog, you may allow editing the Cluster Options by clicking on the >>>>>> link-button, which will either (a) open the "Cluster Options" dialog >>>>>> on top or (b) allow editing the Cluster Values inline within the >>>>>> already-open dialog - this should be accompanied with a clear note to >>>>>> the user that he is editing Cluster-related parameters from the current >>>>>> (Volume) context, which may affect *all* Volumes in that Cluster. >>>>>> Also note that in my suggestion, the user can conveniently see both the >>>>>> Volume values and the Cluster Values side-by-side at once, for >>>>>> reference. >>>>> Accept >>>>> >>>>>> Snapshots -> Schedule: >>>>>> >>>>>> - to my understanding, this should be very similar (or identical) to >>>>>> the >>>>>> New Snapshot functionality? if so, we may want to simply open the "New >>>>>> Snapshot" dialog focused on the "Schedule" side-section (rather than >>>>>> the >>>>>> 'General' side-section, maybe already pre-populated with some values in >>>>>> the 'General' side-section (which will still be editable by the user) >>>>>> and >>>>>> something already pre-selected in the (focused) "Schedule" section. >>>>>> >>>>>> please let me know whether you think these can/should be incorporated >>>>>> into the design, and/or if you have any comments or questions. >>>>> Accept. The snapshot create dialog itself can be used here. >>>>> >>>>>> thanks. >>>>>> >>>>>> ---- >>>>>> Regards, >>>>>> Einav >>>>>> >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>> From: "Shubhendu Tripathi&quot;&lt;shtripat(a)redhat.com&gt; >>>>>>> To:devel@linode01.ovirt.org,jhernand@redhat.com, "Michael >>>>>>> Pasternak&quot;&lt;mpastern(a)redhat.com&gt; >>>>>>> Sent: Monday, November 10, 2014 1:52:40 AM >>>>>>> Subject: [ovirt-devel] Gluster Volume Snapshots - Feature review >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi All, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Please help us to review the design of Gluster Volume Snapshots in >>>>>>> oVirt, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Here are two design on wiki page >>>>>>> >>>>>>> General Feature Design >>>>>>> http://www.ovirt.org/Features/GlusterVolumeSnapshots >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Detailed Design >>>>>>> http://www.ovirt.org/Features/Design/GlusterVolumeSnapshots >>>>>>> >>>>>>> We target it in ovirt 3.6 release. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Marked Juan/Michael specifically for REST review. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Best Regards, >>>>>>> Shubhendu Tripathi >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Devel mailing list >>>>>>> Devel(a)ovirt.org >>>>>>> http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/devel >>>>>>> >