11:32 a.m.
Hi, engine-devel
Customers request the ability to reboot a VM with a single click so I started designing
the overall architecture and planing out the required changes to the respective
components.
You can find the wiki page for the initial draft at [1] and I would like to ask you for
your input on my general design and potential issues that could arise in some corner
cases.
Please feel free to respond to this thread or add to the Issues section of [1].
Thanks in advance for your opinions :-)
Martin
[1] http://www.ovirt.org/Features/Guest_Reboot
1:51 a.m.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Martin Betak" <mbetak(a)redhat.com>
To: engine-devel(a)ovirt.org
Sent: Friday, June 7, 2013 7:32:31 PM
Subject: [Engine-devel] Guest Reboot
Hi, engine-devel
Customers request the ability to reboot a VM with a single click so I started
designing the overall architecture and planing out the required changes to
the respective components.
You can find the wiki page for the initial draft at [1] and I would like to
ask you for your input on my general design and potential issues that could
arise in some corner cases.
Please feel free to respond to this thread or add to the Issues section of
[1].
Thanks in advance for your opinions :-)
Martin
[1] http://www.ovirt.org/Features/Guest_Reboot
_______________________________________________
Engine-devel mailing list
Engine-devel(a)ovirt.org
http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/engine-devel
As i understand it, reboot will do shutdown and initiate a run-command in order to send
any updated parameters,
if this is correct, why vdsm and GA need to know its a reboot? guest is shutting down,
no?
it would be better to add some info on stateless issue: when stateless vm goes down, its
state is cleared,
so need to decide if reboot to stateless means also start with new state or no.
similar is vm from pool: when vm from automatic pool goes down, it "returns" to
the pool, and not belong to a specific user anymore,
also here the state is cleared, so again need to understand the correct behaviour
8:32 a.m.
------=_Part_20453736_1540581237.1370784729351
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I think that the icon suggested in the wiki looks more like "refresh" , and
it's not clear it indicates a reboot action (which is more heavy than just a
refresh).
I suggest as alternative something like the "run VM" icon (the triangle - that
already exists in the engine and users know what it means), and with it the arrows from
the "refresh" icon.
Please see attached.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Martin Betak" <mbetak(a)redhat.com>
To: engine-devel(a)ovirt.org
Sent: Friday, June 7, 2013 7:32:31 PM
Subject: [Engine-devel] Guest Reboot
Hi, engine-devel
Customers request the ability to reboot a VM with a single click so I started
designing the overall architecture and planing out the required changes to
the respective components.
You can find the wiki page for the initial draft at [1] and I would like to
ask you for your input on my general design and potential issues that could
arise in some corner cases.
Please feel free to respond to this thread or add to the Issues section of
[1].
Thanks in advance for your opinions :-)
Martin
[1] http://www.ovirt.org/Features/Guest_Reboot
_______________________________________________
Engine-devel mailing list
Engine-devel(a)ovirt.org
http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/engine-devel
------=_Part_20453736_1540581237.1370784729351
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5:02 a.m.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Alissa Bonas" <abonas(a)redhat.com>
To: "Martin Betak" <mbetak(a)redhat.com>
Cc: engine-devel(a)ovirt.org
Sent: Sunday, June 9, 2013 3:32:09 PM
Subject: Re: [Engine-devel] Guest Reboot
I think that the icon suggested in the wiki looks more like "refresh" , and
it's not clear it indicates a reboot action (which is more heavy than just a
refresh).
I suggest as alternative something like the "run VM" icon (the triangle -
that already exists in the engine and users know what it means), and with it
the arrows from the "refresh" icon.
Please see attached.
Of course, the suggested icon was only to give the impression of "rotating
arrow".
The final design I will leave up to the UX experts :-)
5:29 a.m.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Omer Frenkel" <ofrenkel(a)redhat.com>
To: "Martin Betak" <mbetak(a)redhat.com>
Cc: engine-devel(a)ovirt.org
Sent: Sunday, June 9, 2013 8:51:54 AM
Subject: Re: [Engine-devel] Guest Reboot
As i understand it, reboot will do shutdown and initiate a run-command in
order to send any updated parameters,
if this is correct, why vdsm and GA need to know its a reboot? guest is
shutting down, no?
Well in some cases where the VM configuration hasn't changed we can do graceful reboot
using
libvirt acpi reboot capabilities via guest agent (by just passing different option to the
existing shutdown script).
This preserves the qemu process and can be more efficient than the destroy(); start()
sequence.
Of course if it were the case that the guest would not respond to graceful method of
reboot and the
power-down policy for this VM "hard", the engine would fall back to the
destroy(); start() sequence.
Otherwise (graceful-only reboot policy) we would leave the guest alone -> status UP.
it would be better to add some info on stateless issue: when stateless vm
goes down, its state is cleared,
so need to decide if reboot to stateless means also start with new state or
no.
I think this issue is similar to the Run-Once question.
Do we want to give the user another option to choose from or do we pick one for him?
similar is vm from pool: when vm from automatic pool goes down, it "returns"
to the pool, and not belong to a specific user anymore,
also here the state is cleared, so again need to understand the correct
behaviour
In the case of vm from pool the state treatment should be the same as in stateless but we
also need
to run the stop(); start() sequence in a transaction to make sure nobody else can
"steal" this machine from this user.
Or possibly since pool-VM configuration cannot change we could perhaps do the reboot only
using the new vdsm capabilities.
Do you think this would be possible or the engine would "notice" that the VM
went Down for a brief moment?
Maybe a new VM state "Rebooting" instead of Down would help in this case?
7:43 a.m.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Martin Betak" <mbetak(a)redhat.com>
To: engine-devel(a)ovirt.org
Sent: Friday, June 7, 2013 7:32:31 PM
Subject: [Engine-devel] Guest Reboot
Hi, engine-devel
Customers request the ability to reboot a VM with a single click so I started
designing the overall architecture and planing out the required changes to
the respective components.
You can find the wiki page for the initial draft at [1] and I would like to
ask you for your input on my general design and potential issues that could
arise in some corner cases.
Please feel free to respond to this thread or add to the Issues section of
[1].
Thanks in advance for your opinions :-)
Martin
[1] http://www.ovirt.org/Features/Guest_Reboot
Hi Martin,
Starting version 3.3 we'll enable a fully operational watchdog device.
This device is capable of auto-restarting a guest in case something
goes wrong in the guest (BSOD / kernel panic). This may handle some
of your use cases but not all of them.
My only request from you is to verify the reboot expected behavior
in VMs who are actively using a watchdog device set to restart the
guest. Otherwise users will see conflicts and/or double reboots.
The VM configuration may or may not include a guest agent and a
watchdog device. A watchdog device may reset (reboot) the guest,
but may also pause it for debugging purposes or simply do nothing.
So a table that lists VM configuration and expected behavior should
probably clarify everything and prevent implementation issues.
Doron
10:58 a.m.
I think a Power button icon like this one -
http://us.123rf.com/400wm/400/400/vipervxw/vipervxw1210/vipervxw121000044...
might work for reboot.
-Malini
----- Original Message -----
From: "Alissa Bonas" <abonas(a)redhat.com>
To: "Martin Betak" <mbetak(a)redhat.com>
Cc: engine-devel(a)ovirt.org
Sent: Sunday, June 9, 2013 9:32:09 AM
Subject: Re: [Engine-devel] Guest Reboot
I think that the icon suggested in the wiki looks more like "refresh" , and
it's not clear it indicates a reboot action (which is more heavy than just a
refresh).
I suggest as alternative something like the "run VM" icon (the triangle - that
already exists in the engine and users know what it means), and with it the arrows from
the "refresh" icon.
Please see attached.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Martin Betak" <mbetak(a)redhat.com>
To: engine-devel(a)ovirt.org
Sent: Friday, June 7, 2013 7:32:31 PM
Subject: [Engine-devel] Guest Reboot
Hi, engine-devel
Customers request the ability to reboot a VM with a single click so I started
designing the overall architecture and planing out the required changes to
the respective components.
You can find the wiki page for the initial draft at [1] and I would like to
ask you for your input on my general design and potential issues that could
arise in some corner cases.
Please feel free to respond to this thread or add to the Issues section of
[1].
Thanks in advance for your opinions :-)
Martin
[1] http://www.ovirt.org/Features/Guest_Reboot
_______________________________________________
Engine-devel mailing list
Engine-devel(a)ovirt.org
http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/engine-devel
_______________________________________________
Engine-devel mailing list
Engine-devel(a)ovirt.org
http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/engine-devel
2:20 p.m.
--=-2WfvPoosatWrXY3QxbOd
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Martin,
there may be more kinds of reboot in context of RHEV: "warm" reboot that
keeps qemu process intact, or "cold" that would involve qemu process
termination and start of new one - and this could be done with keeping
of current configuration, or with applying settings that "take effect
after reboot" that have changed during VM runtime; and all of these can
be "soft" - when the guest OS reboots itself and "hard" when you
perform
the reboot right away.
All of these have their use cases, so it should be documented what will
you implement, and you may expect somebody asking you to implement the
rest. ;)
David
Martin Betak p=C3=AD=C5=A1e v P=C3=A1 07. 06. 2013 v 12:32 -0400:
Hi, engine-devel
=20
Customers request the ability to reboot a VM with a single click so I sta=
rted
designing the overall architecture and planing out the required change=
s to the respective components.=20
You can find the wiki page for the initial draft at [1] and I would
like =
to ask you for your input on my general design and potential issues that co=
uld arise in some corner cases.
Please feel free to respond to this thread or add to the Issues
section o=
f [1].
=20
Thanks in advance for your opinions :-)
=20
Martin
=20
[1] http://www.ovirt.org/Features/Guest_Reboot
_______________________________________________
Engine-devel mailing list
Engine-devel(a)ovirt.org
http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/engine-devel
--=20
David Ja=C5=A1a, RHCE
SPICE QE based in Brno
GPG Key: 22C33E24=20
Fingerprint: 513A 060B D1B4 2A72 7F0D 0278 B125 CD00 22C3 3E24
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--=-2WfvPoosatWrXY3QxbOd--
3:19 a.m.
On Jun 10, 2013, at 21:20 , David Jaša <djasa(a)redhat.com> wrote:
Hi Martin,
there may be more kinds of reboot in context of RHEV: "warm" reboot that
keeps qemu process intact, or "cold" that would involve qemu process
termination and start of new one - and this could be done with keeping
of current configuration, or with applying settings that "take effect
after reboot" that have changed during VM runtime; and all of these can
be "soft" - when the guest OS reboots itself and "hard" when you
perform
the reboot right away.
we plan to have 2 of them which seem to make most sense
"warm" without applying config changes and keeping qemu process (i.e. also keeps
Run Once,Stateless, pooled VM config/state)
"cold" which kills qemu and is completely driven by Engine, and applies config
changes
and a policy option in VM properties to specify whether you should forcibly proceed with
reboot/shutdown when graceful methods fail/timeout
is there anything not covered for a typical user? We intentionally don't want to
provide all possible options, just those making sense. The feature is about providing a
convenient shortcut.
Thanks,
michal
All of these have their use cases, so it should be documented what will
you implement, and you may expect somebody asking you to implement the
rest. ;)
David
Martin Betak píše v Pá 07. 06. 2013 v 12:32 -0400:
> Hi, engine-devel
>
> Customers request the ability to reboot a VM with a single click so I started
designing the overall architecture and planing out the required changes to the respective
components.
> You can find the wiki page for the initial draft at [1] and I would like to ask you
for your input on my general design and potential issues that could arise in some corner
cases.
> Please feel free to respond to this thread or add to the Issues section of [1].
>
> Thanks in advance for your opinions :-)
>
> Martin
>
> [1] http://www.ovirt.org/Features/Guest_Reboot
> _______________________________________________
> Engine-devel mailing list
> Engine-devel(a)ovirt.org
> http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/engine-devel
--
David Jaša, RHCE
SPICE QE based in Brno
GPG Key: 22C33E24
Fingerprint: 513A 060B D1B4 2A72 7F0D 0278 B125 CD00 22C3 3E24
_______________________________________________
Engine-devel mailing list
Engine-devel(a)ovirt.org
http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/engine-devel
3:58 a.m.
--=-sq2N/WBBXDuW4mN82psD
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi,
Michal Skrivanek p=C3=AD=C5=A1e v =C3=9At 11. 06. 2013 v 10:19 +0200:
On Jun 10, 2013, at 21:20 , David Ja=C5=A1a <djasa(a)redhat.com>
wrote:
=20
> Hi Martin,
>=20
> there may be more kinds of reboot in context of RHEV: "warm" reboot tha=
t
> keeps qemu process intact, or "cold" that would
involve qemu process
> termination and start of new one - and this could be done with keeping
> of current configuration, or with applying settings that "take effect
> after reboot" that have changed during VM runtime; and all of these can
> be "soft" - when the guest OS reboots itself and "hard" when you
perfor=
m
> the reboot right away.
we plan to have 2 of them which seem to make most sense
"warm" without applying config changes and keeping qemu process (i.e. als=
o keeps Run Once,Stateless, pooled VM config/state)
"cold" which kills qemu and is completely driven by Engine,
and applies c=
onfig changes
and a policy option in VM properties to specify whether you should
forcib=
ly proceed with reboot/shutdown when graceful methods fail/timeout
=20
is there anything not covered for a typical user?=20
I think you covered it all. Based on the original emails by Martin, I
presumed you only covered "warm" reboot, having "cold" reboot
available
as well is cool.
David
We intentionally don't want to provide all possible options, just
those m=
aking sense. The feature is about providing a convenient shortcut.
=20
Thanks,
michal
=20
>=20
> All of these have their use cases, so it should be documented what will
> you implement, and you may expect somebody asking you to implement the
> rest. ;)
>=20
> David
>=20
>=20
> Martin Betak p=C3=AD=C5=A1e v P=C3=A1 07. 06. 2013 v 12:32 -0400:
>> Hi, engine-devel
>>=20
>> Customers request the ability to reboot a VM with a single click so I =
started designing the overall architecture and planing out the required cha=
nges to the respective components.=20
>> You can find the wiki page for the initial draft at [1] and
I would li=
ke to ask you for your input on my general design and potential issues
that=
could arise in some corner cases.
>> Please feel free to respond to this thread or add to the
Issues sectio=
n of [1].
>>=20
>> Thanks in advance for your opinions :-)
>>=20
>> Martin
>>=20
>> [1] http://www.ovirt.org/Features/Guest_Reboot
>> _______________________________________________
>> Engine-devel mailing list
>> Engine-devel(a)ovirt.org
>> http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/engine-devel
>=20
> --=20
>=20
> David Ja=C5=A1a, RHCE
>=20
> SPICE QE based in Brno
> GPG Key: 22C33E24=20
> Fingerprint: 513A 060B D1B4 2A72 7F0D 0278 B125 CD00 22C3 3E24
>=20
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> Engine-devel mailing list
> Engine-devel(a)ovirt.org
> http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/engine-devel
=20
_______________________________________________
Engine-devel mailing list
Engine-devel(a)ovirt.org
http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/engine-devel
--=20
David Ja=C5=A1a, RHCE
SPICE QE based in Brno
GPG Key: 22C33E24=20
Fingerprint: 513A 060B D1B4 2A72 7F0D 0278 B125 CD00 22C3 3E24
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--=-sq2N/WBBXDuW4mN82psD--
5:26 a.m.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Martin Betak" <mbetak(a)redhat.com>
To: "Omer Frenkel" <ofrenkel(a)redhat.com>
Cc: engine-devel(a)ovirt.org
Sent: Monday, June 10, 2013 1:29:29 PM
Subject: Re: [Engine-devel] Guest Reboot
----- Original Message -----
> From: "Omer Frenkel" <ofrenkel(a)redhat.com>
> To: "Martin Betak" <mbetak(a)redhat.com>
> Cc: engine-devel(a)ovirt.org
> Sent: Sunday, June 9, 2013 8:51:54 AM
> Subject: Re: [Engine-devel] Guest Reboot
>
> As i understand it, reboot will do shutdown and initiate a run-command in
> order to send any updated parameters,
> if this is correct, why vdsm and GA need to know its a reboot? guest is
> shutting down, no?
Well in some cases where the VM configuration hasn't changed we can do
graceful reboot using
libvirt acpi reboot capabilities via guest agent (by just passing different
option to the existing shutdown script).
This preserves the qemu process and can be more efficient than the destroy();
start() sequence.
Of course if it were the case that the guest would not respond to graceful
method of reboot and the
power-down policy for this VM "hard", the engine would fall back to the
destroy(); start() sequence.
Otherwise (graceful-only reboot policy) we would leave the guest alone ->
status UP.
ok maybe worth adding this info to the wiki,
although currently there is no way to know if configuration has changed or not,
but should be something like this soon (RFE for changing running vm configuration)
>
> it would be better to add some info on stateless issue: when stateless vm
> goes down, its state is cleared,
> so need to decide if reboot to stateless means also start with new state or
> no.
I think this issue is similar to the Run-Once question.
Do we want to give the user another option to choose from or do we pick one
for him?
>
> similar is vm from pool: when vm from automatic pool goes down, it
> "returns"
> to the pool, and not belong to a specific user anymore,
> also here the state is cleared, so again need to understand the correct
> behaviour
>
In the case of vm from pool the state treatment should be the same as in
stateless but we also need
to run the stop(); start() sequence in a transaction to make sure nobody else
can "steal" this machine from this user.
Or possibly since pool-VM configuration cannot change we could perhaps do the
reboot only using the new vdsm capabilities.
Do you think this would be possible or the engine would "notice" that the VM
went Down for a brief moment?
engine have to identify the vm as down before starting it again..
Maybe a new VM state "Rebooting" instead of Down would help
in this case?
not sure this is the best approach, need to do some thinking about this
3:33 a.m.
Hi,
from the implementation discussion it seems that the behavior of reboot will be in most
cases equivalent to
pressing the current buttons stop and then start, so maybe the reboot icon should reflect
that.
Maybe a combination of red square/green triangle?
Martin
----- Original Message -----
From: "Malini Rao" <mrao(a)redhat.com>
To: "Alissa Bonas" <abonas(a)redhat.com>
Cc: "Martin Betak" <mbetak(a)redhat.com>, engine-devel(a)ovirt.org
Sent: Monday, June 10, 2013 5:58:12 PM
Subject: Re: [Engine-devel] Guest Reboot
I think a Power button icon like this one -
http://us.123rf.com/400wm/400/400/vipervxw/vipervxw1210/vipervxw121000044...
might work for reboot.
-Malini
----- Original Message -----
From: "Alissa Bonas" <abonas(a)redhat.com>
To: "Martin Betak" <mbetak(a)redhat.com>
Cc: engine-devel(a)ovirt.org
Sent: Sunday, June 9, 2013 9:32:09 AM
Subject: Re: [Engine-devel] Guest Reboot
I think that the icon suggested in the wiki looks more like "refresh" , and
it's not clear it indicates a reboot action (which is more heavy than just a
refresh).
I suggest as alternative something like the "run VM" icon (the triangle - that
already exists in the engine and users know what it means), and with it the arrows from
the "refresh" icon.
Please see attached.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Martin Betak" <mbetak(a)redhat.com>
To: engine-devel(a)ovirt.org
Sent: Friday, June 7, 2013 7:32:31 PM
Subject: [Engine-devel] Guest Reboot
Hi, engine-devel
Customers request the ability to reboot a VM with a single click so I started
designing the overall architecture and planing out the required changes to
the respective components.
You can find the wiki page for the initial draft at [1] and I would like to
ask you for your input on my general design and potential issues that could
arise in some corner cases.
Please feel free to respond to this thread or add to the Issues section of
[1].
Thanks in advance for your opinions :-)
Martin
[1] http://www.ovirt.org/Features/Guest_Reboot
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11 comments
7 participants
participants (7)
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Alissa Bonas -
David Jaša -
Doron Fediuck -
Malini Rao -
Martin Betak -
Michal Skrivanek -
Omer Frenkel