[Engine-devel] SPICE related features
Hello all, The following feature page describes the engine adjustments needed for new SPICE features. http://www.ovirt.org/wiki/Features/SPICERelatedFeatures Feel free to share your comments. Thank you, Oved
On 02/08/2012 01:43 PM, Oved Ourfalli wrote:
Hello all,
The following feature page describes the engine adjustments needed for new SPICE features.
Better to cross-post it w/ spice-devel upstream for co-review.
Feel free to share your comments.
Thank you, Oved _______________________________________________ Engine-devel mailing list Engine-devel@ovirt.org http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/engine-devel
Hi all, Dor, thanks for the forward. On 02/08/2012 12:49 PM, Dor Laor wrote:
On 02/08/2012 01:43 PM, Oved Ourfalli wrote:
Hello all,
The following feature page describes the engine adjustments needed for new SPICE features.
Al in all this looks good, some remarks: * WRT multi monitor support for RHEL, the latest RHEL xorg-x11-drv-qxl and spice-vdagent packages do support multi monitor support using multiple cards in Xinerama mode. We are waiting for a RHEL-6 z-stream update to fix an x11-xorg-server-Xorg bug which atm makes the mouse unusable in this mode wants this lands, multi-monitor support this way should be available for RHEL-6.2 (and later) guests. The same holds true for Fedora guests, although I don't expect the necessary Xorg changes to be available for versions older then Fedora 17. The driving multiple monitors from a single qxl device support OTOH is still a long time away, likely 6 months or so. * WRT the native USB support, the wiki page says: "If the cluster level is 3.1 (which supports native USB support), but the client only has non-native USB support (old client), then we will use the old client. This means that we'll have to keep supporting the non-native USB support, side-by-side with the native one." Note that the new usb-support requires starting the guest with a number of extra emulated devices. These will just sit around and do nothing if unused, so I don't really expect any issues with this, but this still is something to be aware of. OTOH the old usb-support requires the installation of extra software inside the guest, if this is not installed falling back to the old client will not help wrt usb support. Regards, Hans
----- Original Message -----
From: "Hans de Goede" <hdegoede@redhat.com> To: dlaor@redhat.com Cc: "Oved Ourfalli" <ovedo@redhat.com>, spice-devel@lists.freedesktop.org, engine-devel@ovirt.org Sent: Wednesday, February 8, 2012 4:36:06 PM Subject: Re: [Spice-devel] [Engine-devel] SPICE related features
Hi all,
Dor, thanks for the forward.
On 02/08/2012 12:49 PM, Dor Laor wrote:
On 02/08/2012 01:43 PM, Oved Ourfalli wrote:
Hello all,
The following feature page describes the engine adjustments needed for new SPICE features.
Al in all this looks good, some remarks:
* WRT multi monitor support for RHEL, the latest RHEL xorg-x11-drv-qxl and spice-vdagent packages do support multi monitor support using multiple cards in Xinerama mode. We are waiting for a RHEL-6 z-stream update to fix an x11-xorg-server-Xorg bug which atm makes the mouse unusable in this mode wants this lands, multi-monitor support this way should be available for RHEL-6.2 (and later) guests. The same holds true for Fedora guests, although I don't expect the necessary Xorg changes to be available for versions older then Fedora 17. The driving multiple monitors from a single qxl device support OTOH is still a long time away, likely 6 months or so.
The idea behind this support is to have it on a single PCI card, and not on multiple ones.
* WRT the native USB support, the wiki page says: "If the cluster level is 3.1 (which supports native USB support), but the client only has non-native USB support (old client), then we will use the old client. This means that we'll have to keep supporting the non-native USB support, side-by-side with the native one."
Note that the new usb-support requires starting the guest with a number of extra emulated devices. These will just sit around and do nothing if unused, so I don't really expect any issues with this, but this still is something to be aware of. OTOH the old usb-support requires the installation of extra software inside the guest, if this is not installed falling back to the old client will not help wrt usb support.
Of course. Added a note on that in the wiki page. Thank you, Oved
Regards,
Hans
Hi, On 02/08/2012 03:43 PM, Oved Ourfalli wrote:
----- Original Message -----
From: "Hans de Goede"<hdegoede@redhat.com> To: dlaor@redhat.com Cc: "Oved Ourfalli"<ovedo@redhat.com>, spice-devel@lists.freedesktop.org, engine-devel@ovirt.org Sent: Wednesday, February 8, 2012 4:36:06 PM Subject: Re: [Spice-devel] [Engine-devel] SPICE related features
Hi all,
Dor, thanks for the forward.
On 02/08/2012 12:49 PM, Dor Laor wrote:
On 02/08/2012 01:43 PM, Oved Ourfalli wrote:
Hello all,
The following feature page describes the engine adjustments needed for new SPICE features.
Al in all this looks good, some remarks:
* WRT multi monitor support for RHEL, the latest RHEL xorg-x11-drv-qxl and spice-vdagent packages do support multi monitor support using multiple cards in Xinerama mode. We are waiting for a RHEL-6 z-stream update to fix an x11-xorg-server-Xorg bug which atm makes the mouse unusable in this mode wants this lands, multi-monitor support this way should be available for RHEL-6.2 (and later) guests. The same holds true for Fedora guests, although I don't expect the necessary Xorg changes to be available for versions older then Fedora 17. The driving multiple monitors from a single qxl device support OTOH is still a long time away, likely 6 months or so.
The idea behind this support is to have it on a single PCI card, and not on multiple ones.
Right, I understand, but my point is, that current RHEL (and other Linux distro based) hypervisors as well as guests do not support the multiple monitors on a single PCI card setup, but they *do* support the multiple monitors, with each a separate PCI card setup like we also do for windows. This means that we may want to enable multiple monitor support for Linux guests *now* using the same code paths / method as for windows guests and then later, for vms where both the guest and the cluster support the multiple monitors on a single PCI card setup, use that instead. Which is not something which the wiki page reflects. Regards, Hans
On 02/08/2012 04:36 PM, Hans de Goede wrote:
Hi all,
Dor, thanks for the forward.
On 02/08/2012 12:49 PM, Dor Laor wrote:
On 02/08/2012 01:43 PM, Oved Ourfalli wrote:
Hello all,
The following feature page describes the engine adjustments needed for new SPICE features.
Al in all this looks good, some remarks:
* WRT multi monitor support for RHEL, the latest RHEL xorg-x11-drv-qxl and spice-vdagent packages do support multi monitor support using multiple cards in Xinerama mode. We are waiting for a RHEL-6 z-stream update to fix an x11-xorg-server-Xorg bug which atm makes the mouse unusable in this mode wants this lands, multi-monitor support this way should be available for RHEL-6.2 (and later) guests. The same holds true for Fedora guests, although I don't expect the necessary Xorg changes to be available for versions older then Fedora 17. The driving multiple monitors from a single qxl device support OTOH is still a long time away, likely 6 months or so.
so this means we need to ask the user for linux guests if they want single head or multiple heads when they choose multi monitor? this will cause their (single) head to spin... any better UX we can suggest users?
* WRT the native USB support, the wiki page says: "If the cluster level is 3.1 (which supports native USB support), but the client only has non-native USB support (old client), then we will use the old client. This means that we'll have to keep supporting the non-native USB support, side-by-side with the native one."
Note that the new usb-support requires starting the guest with a number of extra emulated devices. These will just sit around and do nothing if unused, so I don't really expect any issues with this, but this still is something to be aware of. OTOH the old usb-support requires the installation of extra software inside the guest, if this is not installed falling back to the old client will not help wrt usb support.
true, I think we need to offer at least a single version that offers backward compatibility before we can deprecate it.
Hi, On 02/09/2012 08:55 AM, Itamar Heim wrote:
On 02/08/2012 04:36 PM, Hans de Goede wrote:
Hi all,
Dor, thanks for the forward.
On 02/08/2012 12:49 PM, Dor Laor wrote:
On 02/08/2012 01:43 PM, Oved Ourfalli wrote:
Hello all,
The following feature page describes the engine adjustments needed for new SPICE features.
Al in all this looks good, some remarks:
* WRT multi monitor support for RHEL, the latest RHEL xorg-x11-drv-qxl and spice-vdagent packages do support multi monitor support using multiple cards in Xinerama mode. We are waiting for a RHEL-6 z-stream update to fix an x11-xorg-server-Xorg bug which atm makes the mouse unusable in this mode wants this lands, multi-monitor support this way should be available for RHEL-6.2 (and later) guests. The same holds true for Fedora guests, although I don't expect the necessary Xorg changes to be available for versions older then Fedora 17. The driving multiple monitors from a single qxl device support OTOH is still a long time away, likely 6 months or so.
so this means we need to ask the user for linux guests if they want single head or multiple heads when they choose multi monitor?
We could ask the user, but I don't think that that is a good idea.
this will cause their (single) head to spin...
With which you seem to agree :)
any better UX we can suggest users?
Yes, no UI at all, the current solution using multiple single monitor pci cards means using Xinerama, which disables Xrandr, and thus allows no dynamic adjustment of the monitor settings of the guest, instead an xorg.conf file must be written (the linux agent can generate one based on the current client monitor info) and Xorg needs to be restarted. This is the result of the multiple pci cards which each 1 monitor model we've been using for windows guests being a poor match for Linux guests. So we are working on adding support to drive multiple monitors from a single qxl pci device. This requires changes on both the host and guest side, but if both sides support it this configuration is much better, so IMHO ovirt should just automatically enable it if both the host (the cluster) and the guest support it. On the guest side, this is the current status: RHEL <= 6.1 no multi monitor support RHEL 6.2(*) - 6.? multi monitor support using Xinerama (so 1 monitor/card, multiple cards) RHEL >= 6.? multi monitor support using a single card with multiple outputs Just like when exactly the new multi mon support will be available for guests, it is a similar question mark for when it will be available for the host. *) Note for 6.2 this requires a z-stream xorg server update.
* WRT the native USB support, the wiki page says: "If the cluster level is 3.1 (which supports native USB support), but the client only has non-native USB support (old client), then we will use the old client. This means that we'll have to keep supporting the non-native USB support, side-by-side with the native one."
Note that the new usb-support requires starting the guest with a number of extra emulated devices. These will just sit around and do nothing if unused, so I don't really expect any issues with this, but this still is something to be aware of. OTOH the old usb-support requires the installation of extra software inside the guest, if this is not installed falling back to the old client will not help wrt usb support.
true, I think we need to offer at least a single version that offers backward compatibility before we can deprecate it.
Agreed. Regards, Hans
On 02/09/2012 10:31 AM, Hans de Goede wrote:
Hi,
On 02/09/2012 08:55 AM, Itamar Heim wrote:
On 02/08/2012 04:36 PM, Hans de Goede wrote:
Hi all,
Dor, thanks for the forward.
On 02/08/2012 12:49 PM, Dor Laor wrote:
On 02/08/2012 01:43 PM, Oved Ourfalli wrote:
Hello all,
The following feature page describes the engine adjustments needed for new SPICE features.
Al in all this looks good, some remarks:
* WRT multi monitor support for RHEL, the latest RHEL xorg-x11-drv-qxl and spice-vdagent packages do support multi monitor support using multiple cards in Xinerama mode. We are waiting for a RHEL-6 z-stream update to fix an x11-xorg-server-Xorg bug which atm makes the mouse unusable in this mode wants this lands, multi-monitor support this way should be available for RHEL-6.2 (and later) guests. The same holds true for Fedora guests, although I don't expect the necessary Xorg changes to be available for versions older then Fedora 17. The driving multiple monitors from a single qxl device support OTOH is still a long time away, likely 6 months or so.
so this means we need to ask the user for linux guests if they want single head or multiple heads when they choose multi monitor?
We could ask the user, but I don't think that that is a good idea.
this will cause their (single) head to spin...
With which you seem to agree :)
any better UX we can suggest users?
Yes, no UI at all, the current solution using multiple single monitor pci cards means using Xinerama, which disables Xrandr, and thus allows no dynamic adjustment of the monitor settings of the guest, instead an xorg.conf file must be written (the linux agent can generate one based on the current client monitor info) and Xorg needs to be restarted.
This is the result of the multiple pci cards which each 1 monitor model we've been using for windows guests being a poor match for Linux guests.
So we are working on adding support to drive multiple monitors from a single qxl pci device. This requires changes on both the host and guest side, but if both sides support it this configuration is much better, so IMHO ovirt should just automatically enable it if both the host (the cluster) and the guest support it.
On the guest side, this is the current status:
RHEL <= 6.1 no multi monitor support RHEL 6.2(*) - 6.? multi monitor support using Xinerama (so 1 monitor/card, multiple cards) RHEL >= 6.? multi monitor support using a single card with multiple outputs
Just like when exactly the new multi mon support will be available for guests, it is a similar question mark for when it will be available for the host.
this is the ovirt mailing list, so upstream versions are more relevant here. in any case, I have the same issue with backward compatibilty. say you fix this in fedora 17. user started a guest VM when host was fedora 16. admin upgraded host and changed cluster level to utilize new features. suddenly on next boot guest will move from 4 heads to single head? I'm guessing it will break user configuration. i.e., user should be able to choose to move to utilize the new mode?
Hi, On 02/09/2012 09:33 AM, Itamar Heim wrote:
On 02/09/2012 10:31 AM, Hans de Goede wrote:
<snip>
so this means we need to ask the user for linux guests if they want single head or multiple heads when they choose multi monitor?
We could ask the user, but I don't think that that is a good idea.
this will cause their (single) head to spin...
With which you seem to agree :)
any better UX we can suggest users?
Yes, no UI at all, the current solution using multiple single monitor pci cards means using Xinerama, which disables Xrandr, and thus allows no dynamic adjustment of the monitor settings of the guest, instead an xorg.conf file must be written (the linux agent can generate one based on the current client monitor info) and Xorg needs to be restarted.
This is the result of the multiple pci cards which each 1 monitor model we've been using for windows guests being a poor match for Linux guests.
So we are working on adding support to drive multiple monitors from a single qxl pci device. This requires changes on both the host and guest side, but if both sides support it this configuration is much better, so IMHO ovirt should just automatically enable it if both the host (the cluster) and the guest support it.
On the guest side, this is the current status:
RHEL <= 6.1 no multi monitor support RHEL 6.2(*) - 6.? multi monitor support using Xinerama (so 1 monitor/card, multiple cards) RHEL >= 6.? multi monitor support using a single card with multiple outputs
Just like when exactly the new multi mon support will be available for guests, it is a similar question mark for when it will be available for the host.
this is the ovirt mailing list, so upstream versions are more relevant here. in any case, I have the same issue with backward compatibilty. say you fix this in fedora 17. user started a guest VM when host was fedora 16. admin upgraded host and changed cluster level to utilize new features. suddenly on next boot guest will move from 4 heads to single head? I'm guessing it will break user configuration. i.e., user should be able to choose to move to utilize the new mode?
I see this as something which gets decided at vm creation time, and then stored in the vm config. So if the vm gets created with a guest OS which does not support multiple monitors per qxl device, or when the cluster does not support it, it uses the old setup with 1 card / monitor. Even if the guest OS or the cluster gets upgraded later. Regards, Hans
On 02/09/2012 11:05 AM, Hans de Goede wrote:
Hi,
On 02/09/2012 09:33 AM, Itamar Heim wrote:
On 02/09/2012 10:31 AM, Hans de Goede wrote:
<snip>
so this means we need to ask the user for linux guests if they want single head or multiple heads when they choose multi monitor?
We could ask the user, but I don't think that that is a good idea.
this will cause their (single) head to spin...
With which you seem to agree :)
any better UX we can suggest users?
Yes, no UI at all, the current solution using multiple single monitor pci cards means using Xinerama, which disables Xrandr, and thus allows no dynamic adjustment of the monitor settings of the guest, instead an xorg.conf file must be written (the linux agent can generate one based on the current client monitor info) and Xorg needs to be restarted.
This is the result of the multiple pci cards which each 1 monitor model we've been using for windows guests being a poor match for Linux guests.
So we are working on adding support to drive multiple monitors from a single qxl pci device. This requires changes on both the host and guest side, but if both sides support it this configuration is much better, so IMHO ovirt should just automatically enable it if both the host (the cluster) and the guest support it.
On the guest side, this is the current status:
RHEL <= 6.1 no multi monitor support RHEL 6.2(*) - 6.? multi monitor support using Xinerama (so 1 monitor/card, multiple cards) RHEL >= 6.? multi monitor support using a single card with multiple outputs
Just like when exactly the new multi mon support will be available for guests, it is a similar question mark for when it will be available for the host.
this is the ovirt mailing list, so upstream versions are more relevant here. in any case, I have the same issue with backward compatibilty. say you fix this in fedora 17. user started a guest VM when host was fedora 16. admin upgraded host and changed cluster level to utilize new features. suddenly on next boot guest will move from 4 heads to single head? I'm guessing it will break user configuration. i.e., user should be able to choose to move to utilize the new mode?
I see this as something which gets decided at vm creation time, and then stored in the vm config. So if the vm gets created with a guest OS which does not support multiple monitors per qxl device, or when the cluster does not support it, it uses the old setup with 1 card / monitor. Even if the guest OS or the cluster gets upgraded later.
so instead of letting user change this, we'd force this at vm creation time? I'm not sure this is "friendlier".
Itamar Heim píše v Čt 09. 02. 2012 v 11:07 +0200:
On 02/09/2012 11:05 AM, Hans de Goede wrote:
Hi,
On 02/09/2012 09:33 AM, Itamar Heim wrote:
On 02/09/2012 10:31 AM, Hans de Goede wrote:
<snip>
so this means we need to ask the user for linux guests if they want single head or multiple heads when they choose multi monitor?
We could ask the user, but I don't think that that is a good idea.
this will cause their (single) head to spin...
With which you seem to agree :)
any better UX we can suggest users?
Yes, no UI at all, the current solution using multiple single monitor pci cards means using Xinerama, which disables Xrandr, and thus allows no dynamic adjustment of the monitor settings of the guest, instead an xorg.conf file must be written (the linux agent can generate one based on the current client monitor info) and Xorg needs to be restarted.
This is the result of the multiple pci cards which each 1 monitor model we've been using for windows guests being a poor match for Linux guests.
So we are working on adding support to drive multiple monitors from a single qxl pci device. This requires changes on both the host and guest side, but if both sides support it this configuration is much better, so IMHO ovirt should just automatically enable it if both the host (the cluster) and the guest support it.
On the guest side, this is the current status:
RHEL <= 6.1 no multi monitor support RHEL 6.2(*) - 6.? multi monitor support using Xinerama (so 1 monitor/card, multiple cards) RHEL >= 6.? multi monitor support using a single card with multiple outputs
Just like when exactly the new multi mon support will be available for guests, it is a similar question mark for when it will be available for the host.
this is the ovirt mailing list, so upstream versions are more relevant here. in any case, I have the same issue with backward compatibilty. say you fix this in fedora 17. user started a guest VM when host was fedora 16. admin upgraded host and changed cluster level to utilize new features. suddenly on next boot guest will move from 4 heads to single head? I'm guessing it will break user configuration. i.e., user should be able to choose to move to utilize the new mode?
I see this as something which gets decided at vm creation time, and then stored in the vm config. So if the vm gets created with a guest OS which does not support multiple monitors per qxl device, or when the cluster does not support it, it uses the old setup with 1 card / monitor. Even if the guest OS or the cluster gets upgraded later.
so instead of letting user change this, we'd force this at vm creation time? I'm not sure this is "friendlier".
I think that some history-watching logic & one UI bit could be the way to go. The UI bit would be yet another select button that would let user choose what graphic layout ("all monitors on single graphic card", "one graphic card per monitor (legacy)"). The logic would be like this: * pre-existing guest that now supports new layout in 3.1 cluster * The guest uses 1 monitor, is swithed to 2+ --> new * The guest uses 2+ monitor layout --> old, big fat warning when changing to the new that user should wipe xinerama configuration in the guest * pre-existing guest in old or mixed cluster: * guest uses 2+ monitors --> old * guest is newly configured for 2+ monitors --> show warning that user either has co configure xinerama or use newer cluster --> old * new guest in new cluster: * --> new * if user switches to old, show warning * old guest in any type of cluster * --> old This kind of behavior should provide sensible defaults, all valid choices in all possible scenarios and it should not interfere too much when admin chooses to do anything. David
______________________________________ _________ Engine-devel mailing list Engine-devel@ovirt.org http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/engine-devel
-- David Jaša, RHCE SPICE QE based in Brno GPG Key: 22C33E24 Fingerprint: 513A 060B D1B4 2A72 7F0D 0278 B125 CD00 22C3 3E24
On 02/09/2012 02:50 PM, David Jaša wrote:
Itamar Heim píše v Čt 09. 02. 2012 v 11:07 +0200:
On 02/09/2012 11:05 AM, Hans de Goede wrote:
Hi,
On 02/09/2012 09:33 AM, Itamar Heim wrote:
On 02/09/2012 10:31 AM, Hans de Goede wrote:
<snip>
so this means we need to ask the user for linux guests if they want single head or multiple heads when they choose multi monitor?
We could ask the user, but I don't think that that is a good idea.
this will cause their (single) head to spin...
With which you seem to agree :)
any better UX we can suggest users?
Yes, no UI at all, the current solution using multiple single monitor pci cards means using Xinerama, which disables Xrandr, and thus allows no dynamic adjustment of the monitor settings of the guest, instead an xorg.conf file must be written (the linux agent can generate one based on the current client monitor info) and Xorg needs to be restarted.
This is the result of the multiple pci cards which each 1 monitor model we've been using for windows guests being a poor match for Linux guests.
So we are working on adding support to drive multiple monitors from a single qxl pci device. This requires changes on both the host and guest side, but if both sides support it this configuration is much better, so IMHO ovirt should just automatically enable it if both the host (the cluster) and the guest support it.
On the guest side, this is the current status:
RHEL<= 6.1 no multi monitor support RHEL 6.2(*) - 6.? multi monitor support using Xinerama (so 1 monitor/card, multiple cards) RHEL>= 6.? multi monitor support using a single card with multiple outputs
Just like when exactly the new multi mon support will be available for guests, it is a similar question mark for when it will be available for the host.
this is the ovirt mailing list, so upstream versions are more relevant here. in any case, I have the same issue with backward compatibilty. say you fix this in fedora 17. user started a guest VM when host was fedora 16. admin upgraded host and changed cluster level to utilize new features. suddenly on next boot guest will move from 4 heads to single head? I'm guessing it will break user configuration. i.e., user should be able to choose to move to utilize the new mode?
I see this as something which gets decided at vm creation time, and then stored in the vm config. So if the vm gets created with a guest OS which does not support multiple monitors per qxl device, or when the cluster does not support it, it uses the old setup with 1 card / monitor. Even if the guest OS or the cluster gets upgraded later.
so instead of letting user change this, we'd force this at vm creation time? I'm not sure this is "friendlier".
I think that some history-watching logic& one UI bit could be the way to go. The UI bit would be yet another select button that would let user choose what graphic layout ("all monitors on single graphic card", "one graphic card per monitor (legacy)"). The logic would be like this: * pre-existing guest that now supports new layout in 3.1 cluster * The guest uses 1 monitor, is swithed to 2+ --> new * The guest uses 2+ monitor layout --> old, big fat warning when changing to the new that user should wipe xinerama configuration in the guest * pre-existing guest in old or mixed cluster: * guest uses 2+ monitors --> old * guest is newly configured for 2+ monitors --> show warning that user either has co configure xinerama or use newer cluster --> old * new guest in new cluster: * --> new * if user switches to old, show warning * old guest in any type of cluster * --> old
This kind of behavior should provide sensible defaults, all valid choices in all possible scenarios and it should not interfere too much when admin chooses to do anything.
In short, the same rule of the thumb applies to all of our virtual hardware: - new vm creation should use the greatest and latest virtual hardware version (if the current cluster allows it) - For existing VMs we should preserve their current virtual hardware set (-M flag in qemu machine type vocabulary, cluster terminology for ovirt). - Changing the virtual hardware by either changing existing devices, adding devices, changing pci slots, or changing the virtual hardware revision should done only by user consent. The later may have the exception of smart offline v2v tool. Dor
David
______________________________________ _________ Engine-devel mailing list Engine-devel@ovirt.org http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/engine-devel
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dor Laor" <dlaor@redhat.com> To: spice-devel@lists.freedesktop.org, engine-devel@ovirt.org Cc: "David Jaša" <djasa@redhat.com>, "Oved Ourfalli" <ovedo@redhat.com>, "Hans de Goede" <hdegoede@redhat.com> Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2012 12:52:46 PM Subject: Re: [Engine-devel] [Spice-devel] SPICE related features
On 02/09/2012 02:50 PM, David Jaša wrote:
Itamar Heim píše v Čt 09. 02. 2012 v 11:07 +0200:
On 02/09/2012 11:05 AM, Hans de Goede wrote:
Hi,
On 02/09/2012 09:33 AM, Itamar Heim wrote:
On 02/09/2012 10:31 AM, Hans de Goede wrote:
<snip>
> so this means we need to ask the user for linux guests if they > want > single head or multiple heads when they choose multi monitor?
We could ask the user, but I don't think that that is a good idea.
> this will cause their (single) head to spin...
With which you seem to agree :)
> any better UX we can suggest users?
Yes, no UI at all, the current solution using multiple single monitor pci cards means using Xinerama, which disables Xrandr, and thus allows no dynamic adjustment of the monitor settings of the guest, instead an xorg.conf file must be written (the linux agent can generate one based on the current client monitor info) and Xorg needs to be restarted.
This is the result of the multiple pci cards which each 1 monitor model we've been using for windows guests being a poor match for Linux guests.
So we are working on adding support to drive multiple monitors from a single qxl pci device. This requires changes on both the host and guest side, but if both sides support it this configuration is much better, so IMHO ovirt should just automatically enable it if both the host (the cluster) and the guest support it.
On the guest side, this is the current status:
RHEL<= 6.1 no multi monitor support RHEL 6.2(*) - 6.? multi monitor support using Xinerama (so 1 monitor/card, multiple cards) RHEL>= 6.? multi monitor support using a single card with multiple outputs
Just like when exactly the new multi mon support will be available for guests, it is a similar question mark for when it will be available for the host.
this is the ovirt mailing list, so upstream versions are more relevant here. in any case, I have the same issue with backward compatibilty. say you fix this in fedora 17. user started a guest VM when host was fedora 16. admin upgraded host and changed cluster level to utilize new features. suddenly on next boot guest will move from 4 heads to single head? I'm guessing it will break user configuration. i.e., user should be able to choose to move to utilize the new mode?
I see this as something which gets decided at vm creation time, and then stored in the vm config. So if the vm gets created with a guest OS which does not support multiple monitors per qxl device, or when the cluster does not support it, it uses the old setup with 1 card / monitor. Even if the guest OS or the cluster gets upgraded later.
so instead of letting user change this, we'd force this at vm creation time? I'm not sure this is "friendlier".
I think that some history-watching logic& one UI bit could be the way to go. The UI bit would be yet another select button that would let user choose what graphic layout ("all monitors on single graphic card", "one graphic card per monitor (legacy)"). The logic would be like this: * pre-existing guest that now supports new layout in 3.1 cluster * The guest uses 1 monitor, is swithed to 2+ --> new * The guest uses 2+ monitor layout --> old, big fat warning when changing to the new that user should wipe xinerama configuration in the guest * pre-existing guest in old or mixed cluster: * guest uses 2+ monitors --> old * guest is newly configured for 2+ monitors --> show warning that user either has co configure xinerama or use newer cluster --> old * new guest in new cluster: * --> new * if user switches to old, show warning * old guest in any type of cluster * --> old
This kind of behavior should provide sensible defaults, all valid choices in all possible scenarios and it should not interfere too much when admin chooses to do anything.
In short, the same rule of the thumb applies to all of our virtual hardware: - new vm creation should use the greatest and latest virtual hardware version (if the current cluster allows it) - For existing VMs we should preserve their current virtual hardware set (-M flag in qemu machine type vocabulary, cluster terminology for ovirt). - Changing the virtual hardware by either changing existing devices, adding devices, changing pci slots, or changing the virtual hardware revision should done only by user consent. The later may have the exception of smart offline v2v tool.
Dor
I agree. What I don't understand (not a question for you Dor, but more for the SPICE guys), though, is the requirement to support Xinerama configuration on the guest. Today the ovirt-engine doesn't support using more than one monitor on Linux guests. If someone did something with is not the standard, somewhere behind the scenes, the engine cannot be aware of that, thus it cannot take it into consideration. Moreover, don't change the device layout when we add support, as the guest had one display device with one head, and it will remain that way, unless he chooses to work with multiple monitors through the engine management system.
David
______________________________________ _________ Engine-devel mailing list Engine-devel@ovirt.org http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/engine-devel
_______________________________________________ Engine-devel mailing list Engine-devel@ovirt.org http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/engine-devel
On Wed, Feb 15, 2012 at 06:25:37AM -0500, Oved Ourfalli wrote:
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dor Laor" <dlaor@redhat.com> To: spice-devel@lists.freedesktop.org, engine-devel@ovirt.org Cc: "David Jaša" <djasa@redhat.com>, "Oved Ourfalli" <ovedo@redhat.com>, "Hans de Goede" <hdegoede@redhat.com> Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2012 12:52:46 PM Subject: Re: [Engine-devel] [Spice-devel] SPICE related features
On 02/09/2012 02:50 PM, David Jaša wrote:
Itamar Heim píše v Čt 09. 02. 2012 v 11:07 +0200:
On 02/09/2012 11:05 AM, Hans de Goede wrote:
Hi,
On 02/09/2012 09:33 AM, Itamar Heim wrote:
On 02/09/2012 10:31 AM, Hans de Goede wrote:
<snip>
>> so this means we need to ask the user for linux guests if they >> want >> single head or multiple heads when they choose multi monitor? > > We could ask the user, but I don't think that that is a good > idea. > >> this will cause their (single) head to spin... > > With which you seem to agree :) > >> any better UX we can suggest users? > > Yes, no UI at all, the current solution using multiple single > monitor > pci cards means using Xinerama, which disables Xrandr, and thus > allows > no dynamic adjustment of the monitor settings of the guest, > instead > an xorg.conf file must be written (the linux agent can generate > one > based on the current client monitor info) and Xorg needs to be > restarted. > > This is the result of the multiple pci cards which each 1 > monitor model > we've been using for windows guests being a poor match for > Linux guests. > > So we are working on adding support to drive multiple monitors > from a > single qxl pci device. This requires changes on both the host > and > guest side, but if both sides support it this configuration is > much > better, so IMHO ovirt should just automatically enable it > if both the host (the cluster) and the guest support it. > > On the guest side, this is the current status: > > RHEL<= 6.1 no multi monitor support > RHEL 6.2(*) - 6.? multi monitor support using Xinerama (so 1 > monitor/card, multiple cards) > RHEL>= 6.? multi monitor support using a single card with > multiple > outputs > > Just like when exactly the new multi mon support will be > available > for guests, it is a similar question mark for when it will be > available for > the host.
this is the ovirt mailing list, so upstream versions are more relevant here. in any case, I have the same issue with backward compatibilty. say you fix this in fedora 17. user started a guest VM when host was fedora 16. admin upgraded host and changed cluster level to utilize new features. suddenly on next boot guest will move from 4 heads to single head? I'm guessing it will break user configuration. i.e., user should be able to choose to move to utilize the new mode?
I see this as something which gets decided at vm creation time, and then stored in the vm config. So if the vm gets created with a guest OS which does not support multiple monitors per qxl device, or when the cluster does not support it, it uses the old setup with 1 card / monitor. Even if the guest OS or the cluster gets upgraded later.
so instead of letting user change this, we'd force this at vm creation time? I'm not sure this is "friendlier".
I think that some history-watching logic& one UI bit could be the way to go. The UI bit would be yet another select button that would let user choose what graphic layout ("all monitors on single graphic card", "one graphic card per monitor (legacy)"). The logic would be like this: * pre-existing guest that now supports new layout in 3.1 cluster * The guest uses 1 monitor, is swithed to 2+ --> new * The guest uses 2+ monitor layout --> old, big fat warning when changing to the new that user should wipe xinerama configuration in the guest * pre-existing guest in old or mixed cluster: * guest uses 2+ monitors --> old * guest is newly configured for 2+ monitors --> show warning that user either has co configure xinerama or use newer cluster --> old * new guest in new cluster: * --> new * if user switches to old, show warning * old guest in any type of cluster * --> old
This kind of behavior should provide sensible defaults, all valid choices in all possible scenarios and it should not interfere too much when admin chooses to do anything.
In short, the same rule of the thumb applies to all of our virtual hardware: - new vm creation should use the greatest and latest virtual hardware version (if the current cluster allows it) - For existing VMs we should preserve their current virtual hardware set (-M flag in qemu machine type vocabulary, cluster terminology for ovirt). - Changing the virtual hardware by either changing existing devices, adding devices, changing pci slots, or changing the virtual hardware revision should done only by user consent. The later may have the exception of smart offline v2v tool.
Dor
I agree. What I don't understand (not a question for you Dor, but more for the SPICE guys), though, is the requirement to support Xinerama configuration on the guest. Today the ovirt-engine doesn't support using more than one monitor on Linux guests.
Why? With Xinerama support we have a solution for this. That's the reason for asking for more the one monitor support for linux guests, no?
If someone did something with is not the standard, somewhere behind the scenes, the engine cannot be aware of that, thus it cannot take it into consideration. Moreover, don't change the device layout when we add support, as the guest had one display device with one head, and it will remain that way, unless he chooses to work with multiple monitors through the engine management system.
David
______________________________________ _________ Engine-devel mailing list Engine-devel@ovirt.org http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/engine-devel
_______________________________________________ Engine-devel mailing list Engine-devel@ovirt.org http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/engine-devel
_______________________________________________ Spice-devel mailing list Spice-devel@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/spice-devel
----- Original Message -----
From: "Alon Levy" <alevy@redhat.com> To: "Oved Ourfalli" <ovedo@redhat.com> Cc: "David Jaša" <djasa@redhat.com>, spice-devel@lists.freedesktop.org, dlaor@redhat.com, engine-devel@ovirt.org Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2012 2:51:47 PM Subject: Re: [Engine-devel] [Spice-devel] SPICE related features
On Wed, Feb 15, 2012 at 06:25:37AM -0500, Oved Ourfalli wrote:
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dor Laor" <dlaor@redhat.com> To: spice-devel@lists.freedesktop.org, engine-devel@ovirt.org Cc: "David Jaša" <djasa@redhat.com>, "Oved Ourfalli" <ovedo@redhat.com>, "Hans de Goede" <hdegoede@redhat.com> Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2012 12:52:46 PM Subject: Re: [Engine-devel] [Spice-devel] SPICE related features
On 02/09/2012 02:50 PM, David Jaša wrote:
Itamar Heim píše v Čt 09. 02. 2012 v 11:07 +0200:
On 02/09/2012 11:05 AM, Hans de Goede wrote:
Hi,
On 02/09/2012 09:33 AM, Itamar Heim wrote: > On 02/09/2012 10:31 AM, Hans de Goede wrote:
<snip>
>>> so this means we need to ask the user for linux guests if >>> they >>> want >>> single head or multiple heads when they choose multi >>> monitor? >> >> We could ask the user, but I don't think that that is a >> good >> idea. >> >>> this will cause their (single) head to spin... >> >> With which you seem to agree :) >> >>> any better UX we can suggest users? >> >> Yes, no UI at all, the current solution using multiple >> single >> monitor >> pci cards means using Xinerama, which disables Xrandr, and >> thus >> allows >> no dynamic adjustment of the monitor settings of the guest, >> instead >> an xorg.conf file must be written (the linux agent can >> generate >> one >> based on the current client monitor info) and Xorg needs to >> be >> restarted. >> >> This is the result of the multiple pci cards which each 1 >> monitor model >> we've been using for windows guests being a poor match for >> Linux guests. >> >> So we are working on adding support to drive multiple >> monitors >> from a >> single qxl pci device. This requires changes on both the >> host >> and >> guest side, but if both sides support it this configuration >> is >> much >> better, so IMHO ovirt should just automatically enable it >> if both the host (the cluster) and the guest support it. >> >> On the guest side, this is the current status: >> >> RHEL<= 6.1 no multi monitor support >> RHEL 6.2(*) - 6.? multi monitor support using Xinerama (so >> 1 >> monitor/card, multiple cards) >> RHEL>= 6.? multi monitor support using a single card with >> multiple >> outputs >> >> Just like when exactly the new multi mon support will be >> available >> for guests, it is a similar question mark for when it will >> be >> available for >> the host. > > this is the ovirt mailing list, so upstream versions are > more > relevant > here. > in any case, I have the same issue with backward > compatibilty. > say you fix this in fedora 17. > user started a guest VM when host was fedora 16. > admin upgraded host and changed cluster level to utilize new > features. > suddenly on next boot guest will move from 4 heads to single > head? I'm > guessing it will break user configuration. > i.e., user should be able to choose to move to utilize the > new > mode?
I see this as something which gets decided at vm creation time, and then stored in the vm config. So if the vm gets created with a guest OS which does not support multiple monitors per qxl device, or when the cluster does not support it, it uses the old setup with 1 card / monitor. Even if the guest OS or the cluster gets upgraded later.
so instead of letting user change this, we'd force this at vm creation time? I'm not sure this is "friendlier".
I think that some history-watching logic& one UI bit could be the way to go. The UI bit would be yet another select button that would let user choose what graphic layout ("all monitors on single graphic card", "one graphic card per monitor (legacy)"). The logic would be like this: * pre-existing guest that now supports new layout in 3.1 cluster * The guest uses 1 monitor, is swithed to 2+ --> new * The guest uses 2+ monitor layout --> old, big fat warning when changing to the new that user should wipe xinerama configuration in the guest * pre-existing guest in old or mixed cluster: * guest uses 2+ monitors --> old * guest is newly configured for 2+ monitors --> show warning that user either has co configure xinerama or use newer cluster --> old * new guest in new cluster: * --> new * if user switches to old, show warning * old guest in any type of cluster * --> old
This kind of behavior should provide sensible defaults, all valid choices in all possible scenarios and it should not interfere too much when admin chooses to do anything.
In short, the same rule of the thumb applies to all of our virtual hardware: - new vm creation should use the greatest and latest virtual hardware version (if the current cluster allows it) - For existing VMs we should preserve their current virtual hardware set (-M flag in qemu machine type vocabulary, cluster terminology for ovirt). - Changing the virtual hardware by either changing existing devices, adding devices, changing pci slots, or changing the virtual hardware revision should done only by user consent. The later may have the exception of smart offline v2v tool.
Dor
I agree. What I don't understand (not a question for you Dor, but more for the SPICE guys), though, is the requirement to support Xinerama configuration on the guest. Today the ovirt-engine doesn't support using more than one monitor on Linux guests.
Why? With Xinerama support we have a solution for this. That's the reason for asking for more the one monitor support for linux guests, no?
AFAIU there was no requirement for adding Xinerama support, but only supporting using multiple heads on a single device. If this is a requirement we should know about it, and design it. Either way, as both features are new we have no backward compatibility issue here.
If someone did something with is not the standard, somewhere behind the scenes, the engine cannot be aware of that, thus it cannot take it into consideration. Moreover, don't change the device layout when we add support, as the guest had one display device with one head, and it will remain that way, unless he chooses to work with multiple monitors through the engine management system.
David
______________________________________ _________ Engine-devel mailing list Engine-devel@ovirt.org http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/engine-devel
_______________________________________________ Engine-devel mailing list Engine-devel@ovirt.org http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/engine-devel
_______________________________________________ Spice-devel mailing list Spice-devel@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/spice-devel
Engine-devel mailing list Engine-devel@ovirt.org http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/engine-devel
Oved Ourfalli píše v St 15. 02. 2012 v 08:06 -0500:
----- Original Message -----
From: "Alon Levy" <alevy@redhat.com> To: "Oved Ourfalli" <ovedo@redhat.com> Cc: "David Jaša" <djasa@redhat.com>, spice-devel@lists.freedesktop.org, dlaor@redhat.com, engine-devel@ovirt.org Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2012 2:51:47 PM Subject: Re: [Engine-devel] [Spice-devel] SPICE related features
On Wed, Feb 15, 2012 at 06:25:37AM -0500, Oved Ourfalli wrote:
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dor Laor" <dlaor@redhat.com> To: spice-devel@lists.freedesktop.org, engine-devel@ovirt.org Cc: "David Jaša" <djasa@redhat.com>, "Oved Ourfalli" <ovedo@redhat.com>, "Hans de Goede" <hdegoede@redhat.com> Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2012 12:52:46 PM Subject: Re: [Engine-devel] [Spice-devel] SPICE related features
On 02/09/2012 02:50 PM, David Jaša wrote:
Itamar Heim píše v Čt 09. 02. 2012 v 11:07 +0200:
On 02/09/2012 11:05 AM, Hans de Goede wrote: > Hi, > > On 02/09/2012 09:33 AM, Itamar Heim wrote: >> On 02/09/2012 10:31 AM, Hans de Goede wrote: > > <snip> > >>>> so this means we need to ask the user for linux guests if >>>> they >>>> want >>>> single head or multiple heads when they choose multi >>>> monitor? >>> >>> We could ask the user, but I don't think that that is a >>> good >>> idea. >>> >>>> this will cause their (single) head to spin... >>> >>> With which you seem to agree :) >>> >>>> any better UX we can suggest users? >>> >>> Yes, no UI at all, the current solution using multiple >>> single >>> monitor >>> pci cards means using Xinerama, which disables Xrandr, and >>> thus >>> allows >>> no dynamic adjustment of the monitor settings of the guest, >>> instead >>> an xorg.conf file must be written (the linux agent can >>> generate >>> one >>> based on the current client monitor info) and Xorg needs to >>> be >>> restarted. >>> >>> This is the result of the multiple pci cards which each 1 >>> monitor model >>> we've been using for windows guests being a poor match for >>> Linux guests. >>> >>> So we are working on adding support to drive multiple >>> monitors >>> from a >>> single qxl pci device. This requires changes on both the >>> host >>> and >>> guest side, but if both sides support it this configuration >>> is >>> much >>> better, so IMHO ovirt should just automatically enable it >>> if both the host (the cluster) and the guest support it. >>> >>> On the guest side, this is the current status: >>> >>> RHEL<= 6.1 no multi monitor support >>> RHEL 6.2(*) - 6.? multi monitor support using Xinerama (so >>> 1 >>> monitor/card, multiple cards) >>> RHEL>= 6.? multi monitor support using a single card with >>> multiple >>> outputs >>> >>> Just like when exactly the new multi mon support will be >>> available >>> for guests, it is a similar question mark for when it will >>> be >>> available for >>> the host. >> >> this is the ovirt mailing list, so upstream versions are >> more >> relevant >> here. >> in any case, I have the same issue with backward >> compatibilty. >> say you fix this in fedora 17. >> user started a guest VM when host was fedora 16. >> admin upgraded host and changed cluster level to utilize new >> features. >> suddenly on next boot guest will move from 4 heads to single >> head? I'm >> guessing it will break user configuration. >> i.e., user should be able to choose to move to utilize the >> new >> mode? > > I see this as something which gets decided at vm creation > time, > and then > stored in the vm config. So if the vm gets created with a > guest > OS which > does not support multiple monitors per qxl device, or when > the > cluster does > not support it, it uses the old setup with 1 card / monitor. > Even > if the > guest OS or the cluster gets upgraded later.
so instead of letting user change this, we'd force this at vm creation time? I'm not sure this is "friendlier".
I think that some history-watching logic& one UI bit could be the way to go. The UI bit would be yet another select button that would let user choose what graphic layout ("all monitors on single graphic card", "one graphic card per monitor (legacy)"). The logic would be like this: * pre-existing guest that now supports new layout in 3.1 cluster * The guest uses 1 monitor, is swithed to 2+ --> new * The guest uses 2+ monitor layout --> old, big fat warning when changing to the new that user should wipe xinerama configuration in the guest * pre-existing guest in old or mixed cluster: * guest uses 2+ monitors --> old * guest is newly configured for 2+ monitors --> show warning that user either has co configure xinerama or use newer cluster --> old * new guest in new cluster: * --> new * if user switches to old, show warning * old guest in any type of cluster * --> old
This kind of behavior should provide sensible defaults, all valid choices in all possible scenarios and it should not interfere too much when admin chooses to do anything.
In short, the same rule of the thumb applies to all of our virtual hardware: - new vm creation should use the greatest and latest virtual hardware version (if the current cluster allows it) - For existing VMs we should preserve their current virtual hardware set (-M flag in qemu machine type vocabulary, cluster terminology for ovirt). - Changing the virtual hardware by either changing existing devices, adding devices, changing pci slots, or changing the virtual hardware revision should done only by user consent. The later may have the exception of smart offline v2v tool.
Dor
I agree. What I don't understand (not a question for you Dor, but more for the SPICE guys), though, is the requirement to support Xinerama configuration on the guest. Today the ovirt-engine doesn't support using more than one monitor on Linux guests.
Why? With Xinerama support we have a solution for this. That's the reason for asking for more the one monitor support for linux guests, no?
AFAIU there was no requirement for adding Xinerama support, but only supporting using multiple heads on a single device. If this is a requirement we should know about it, and design it. Either way, as both features are new we have no backward compatibility issue here.
No and no - if you take downstream RHEV into account. RHEV 3.0 _does_ support multimonitor linux guests using more single-headed devices which in turn require Xinerama configuration in guests. When such guests are placed on top of new multi-headed device, their configuration will break - so the feature is neither new, nor backward-compatibility-free. If you choose to ignore this issue, it may turn out to be a pain to fix it in late (RHEV-M) 3.1 cycle, when it is definitely branched from upstream. David
If someone did something with is not the standard, somewhere behind the scenes, the engine cannot be aware of that, thus it cannot take it into consideration. Moreover, don't change the device layout when we add support, as the guest had one display device with one head, and it will remain that way, unless he chooses to work with multiple monitors through the engine management system.
David
______________________________________ _________ Engine-devel mailing list Engine-devel@ovirt.org http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/engine-devel
_______________________________________________ Engine-devel mailing list Engine-devel@ovirt.org http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/engine-devel
_______________________________________________ Spice-devel mailing list Spice-devel@lists.freedesktop.org http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/spice-devel
Engine-devel mailing list Engine-devel@ovirt.org http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/engine-devel
_______________________________________________ Engine-devel mailing list Engine-devel@ovirt.org http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/engine-devel
-- David Jaša, RHCE SPICE QE based in Brno GPG Key: 22C33E24 Fingerprint: 513A 060B D1B4 2A72 7F0D 0278 B125 CD00 22C3 3E24
Oved Ourfalli píše v St 15. 02. 2012 v 06:25 -0500:
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dor Laor" <dlaor@redhat.com> To: spice-devel@lists.freedesktop.org, engine-devel@ovirt.org Cc: "David Jaša" <djasa@redhat.com>, "Oved Ourfalli" <ovedo@redhat.com>, "Hans de Goede" <hdegoede@redhat.com> Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2012 12:52:46 PM Subject: Re: [Engine-devel] [Spice-devel] SPICE related features
On 02/09/2012 02:50 PM, David Jaša wrote:
Itamar Heim píše v Čt 09. 02. 2012 v 11:07 +0200:
On 02/09/2012 11:05 AM, Hans de Goede wrote:
Hi,
On 02/09/2012 09:33 AM, Itamar Heim wrote:
On 02/09/2012 10:31 AM, Hans de Goede wrote:
<snip>
>> so this means we need to ask the user for linux guests if they >> want >> single head or multiple heads when they choose multi monitor? > > We could ask the user, but I don't think that that is a good > idea. > >> this will cause their (single) head to spin... > > With which you seem to agree :) > >> any better UX we can suggest users? > > Yes, no UI at all, the current solution using multiple single > monitor > pci cards means using Xinerama, which disables Xrandr, and thus > allows > no dynamic adjustment of the monitor settings of the guest, > instead > an xorg.conf file must be written (the linux agent can generate > one > based on the current client monitor info) and Xorg needs to be > restarted. > > This is the result of the multiple pci cards which each 1 > monitor model > we've been using for windows guests being a poor match for > Linux guests. > > So we are working on adding support to drive multiple monitors > from a > single qxl pci device. This requires changes on both the host > and > guest side, but if both sides support it this configuration is > much > better, so IMHO ovirt should just automatically enable it > if both the host (the cluster) and the guest support it. > > On the guest side, this is the current status: > > RHEL<= 6.1 no multi monitor support > RHEL 6.2(*) - 6.? multi monitor support using Xinerama (so 1 > monitor/card, multiple cards) > RHEL>= 6.? multi monitor support using a single card with > multiple > outputs > > Just like when exactly the new multi mon support will be > available > for guests, it is a similar question mark for when it will be > available for > the host.
this is the ovirt mailing list, so upstream versions are more relevant here. in any case, I have the same issue with backward compatibilty. say you fix this in fedora 17. user started a guest VM when host was fedora 16. admin upgraded host and changed cluster level to utilize new features. suddenly on next boot guest will move from 4 heads to single head? I'm guessing it will break user configuration. i.e., user should be able to choose to move to utilize the new mode?
I see this as something which gets decided at vm creation time, and then stored in the vm config. So if the vm gets created with a guest OS which does not support multiple monitors per qxl device, or when the cluster does not support it, it uses the old setup with 1 card / monitor. Even if the guest OS or the cluster gets upgraded later.
so instead of letting user change this, we'd force this at vm creation time? I'm not sure this is "friendlier".
I think that some history-watching logic& one UI bit could be the way to go. The UI bit would be yet another select button that would let user choose what graphic layout ("all monitors on single graphic card", "one graphic card per monitor (legacy)"). The logic would be like this: * pre-existing guest that now supports new layout in 3.1 cluster * The guest uses 1 monitor, is swithed to 2+ --> new * The guest uses 2+ monitor layout --> old, big fat warning when changing to the new that user should wipe xinerama configuration in the guest * pre-existing guest in old or mixed cluster: * guest uses 2+ monitors --> old * guest is newly configured for 2+ monitors --> show warning that user either has co configure xinerama or use newer cluster --> old * new guest in new cluster: * --> new * if user switches to old, show warning * old guest in any type of cluster * --> old
This kind of behavior should provide sensible defaults, all valid choices in all possible scenarios and it should not interfere too much when admin chooses to do anything.
In short, the same rule of the thumb applies to all of our virtual hardware: - new vm creation should use the greatest and latest virtual hardware version (if the current cluster allows it) - For existing VMs we should preserve their current virtual hardware set (-M flag in qemu machine type vocabulary, cluster terminology for ovirt). - Changing the virtual hardware by either changing existing devices, adding devices, changing pci slots, or changing the virtual hardware revision should done only by user consent. The later may have the exception of smart offline v2v tool.
Dor
I agree. What I don't understand (not a question for you Dor, but more for the SPICE guys), though, is the requirement to support Xinerama configuration on the guest. Today the ovirt-engine doesn't support using more than one monitor on Linux guests.
Downstream RHEV 3.0 does support multi-monitor linux guests using Xinerama so it has to be taken into consideration. David
If someone did something with is not the standard, somewhere behind the scenes, the engine cannot be aware of that, thus it cannot take it into consideration. Moreover, don't change the device layout when we add support, as the guest had one display device with one head, and it will remain that way, unless he chooses to work with multiple monitors through the engine management system.
David
______________________________________ _________ Engine-devel mailing list Engine-devel@ovirt.org http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/engine-devel
_______________________________________________ Engine-devel mailing list Engine-devel@ovirt.org http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/engine-devel
_______________________________________________ Engine-devel mailing list Engine-devel@ovirt.org http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/engine-devel
-- David Jaša, RHCE SPICE QE based in Brno GPG Key: 22C33E24 Fingerprint: 513A 060B D1B4 2A72 7F0D 0278 B125 CD00 22C3 3E24
participants (6)
-
Alon Levy -
David Jaša -
Dor Laor -
Hans de Goede -
Itamar Heim -
Oved Ourfalli