[Engine-devel] Instance Types Feature
Hi All, this is the proposed new feature called instance types: http://www.ovirt.org/Features/Instance_Types Long story short - it should basically split the VM template into: - "hardware profile" called instance types - "software profile" called image This should enable to do something like: Create a new "small" VM and attach a disk with "RHEL + Postgres" installed. Any comments are more than welcome! Tomas
Hi Tomas, I like the idea in general, but for me the instance types looks like a feature that is typical in public clouds, while in private clouds it looks more like a cool extra feature for special cases. Therefore in my opinion it would be great to keep the old template solution as well to keep it simple for most users. A template could be an instance type and an image together. Only the description overlap, and that could be solved. Thanks, Laszlo ----- Original Message -----
From: "Tomas Jelinek" <tjelinek@redhat.com> To: engine-devel@ovirt.org Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2013 3:09:51 PM Subject: [Engine-devel] Instance Types Feature
Hi All,
this is the proposed new feature called instance types: http://www.ovirt.org/Features/Instance_Types
Long story short - it should basically split the VM template into: - "hardware profile" called instance types - "software profile" called image
This should enable to do something like: Create a new "small" VM and attach a disk with "RHEL + Postgres" installed.
Any comments are more than welcome!
Tomas _______________________________________________ Engine-devel mailing list Engine-devel@ovirt.org http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/engine-devel
Hi Laszlo, it is not useful just for public clouds - it can be pretty useful for private as well. But to keep the previous way, it could be done this way: - on the advanced screen (after clicking "show advanced options" you can specify the template) - by default you pick on basic view the instance type (e.g. HW profile) and the Image (e.g. disk with some metadata such as OS type). But, you can select custom instance type (equivalent to blank template) and no Image. In this case the template appears also on basic view and you can select it. What do you think? Tomas ----- Original Message ----- From: "Laszlo Hornyak" <lhornyak@redhat.com> To: "Tomas Jelinek" <tjelinek@redhat.com> Cc: engine-devel@ovirt.org Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2013 7:16:32 PM Subject: Re: [Engine-devel] Instance Types Feature Hi Tomas, I like the idea in general, but for me the instance types looks like a feature that is typical in public clouds, while in private clouds it looks more like a cool extra feature for special cases. Therefore in my opinion it would be great to keep the old template solution as well to keep it simple for most users. A template could be an instance type and an image together. Only the description overlap, and that could be solved. Thanks, Laszlo ----- Original Message -----
From: "Tomas Jelinek" <tjelinek@redhat.com> To: engine-devel@ovirt.org Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2013 3:09:51 PM Subject: [Engine-devel] Instance Types Feature
Hi All,
this is the proposed new feature called instance types: http://www.ovirt.org/Features/Instance_Types
Long story short - it should basically split the VM template into: - "hardware profile" called instance types - "software profile" called image
This should enable to do something like: Create a new "small" VM and attach a disk with "RHEL + Postgres" installed.
Any comments are more than welcome!
Tomas _______________________________________________ Engine-devel mailing list Engine-devel@ovirt.org http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/engine-devel
hi, This is what I thought of: In public clouds it is common to have pre-defined instance types e.g. amazon small/medium/large/x-large instance, and this is what customers get even if they don't like it. I guess this helps Amazon a lot to simplify the decision logic for vm scheduling and pricing. In a private cloud, you choose the resources your application needs, therefore you can choose just as much as you need. Of course after introducing the instance type in ovirt, you will still have control over the instance types and create any instance type you like beyond the pre-defined types you have in public cloud, but you will have two things to set: the instance type and the image, which is more administration than just working with templates, while most of the cases the templates were enough: you created both the OS image and the virtual hardware profile it is running on. For another image and another workload, I would most likely want to create another one that just fits the needs. This is why I think keeping the template as an entity composed out of an image and a instance type would be great. Laszlo ----- Original Message -----
From: "Tomas Jelinek" <tjelinek@redhat.com> To: "Laszlo Hornyak" <lhornyak@redhat.com> Cc: engine-devel@ovirt.org Sent: Friday, January 25, 2013 1:32:20 PM Subject: Re: [Engine-devel] Instance Types Feature
Hi Laszlo,
it is not useful just for public clouds - it can be pretty useful for private as well. But to keep the previous way, it could be done this way: - on the advanced screen (after clicking "show advanced options" you can specify the template) - by default you pick on basic view the instance type (e.g. HW profile) and the Image (e.g. disk with some metadata such as OS type). But, you can select custom instance type (equivalent to blank template) and no Image. In this case the template appears also on basic view and you can select it.
What do you think?
Tomas
----- Original Message ----- From: "Laszlo Hornyak" <lhornyak@redhat.com> To: "Tomas Jelinek" <tjelinek@redhat.com> Cc: engine-devel@ovirt.org Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2013 7:16:32 PM Subject: Re: [Engine-devel] Instance Types Feature
Hi Tomas,
I like the idea in general, but for me the instance types looks like a feature that is typical in public clouds, while in private clouds it looks more like a cool extra feature for special cases. Therefore in my opinion it would be great to keep the old template solution as well to keep it simple for most users. A template could be an instance type and an image together. Only the description overlap, and that could be solved.
Thanks, Laszlo
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tomas Jelinek" <tjelinek@redhat.com> To: engine-devel@ovirt.org Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2013 3:09:51 PM Subject: [Engine-devel] Instance Types Feature
Hi All,
this is the proposed new feature called instance types: http://www.ovirt.org/Features/Instance_Types
Long story short - it should basically split the VM template into: - "hardware profile" called instance types - "software profile" called image
This should enable to do something like: Create a new "small" VM and attach a disk with "RHEL + Postgres" installed.
Any comments are more than welcome!
Tomas _______________________________________________ Engine-devel mailing list Engine-devel@ovirt.org http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/engine-devel
Of course after introducing the instance type in ovirt, you will still have control over the instance types and create any instance type you like beyond the pre-defined types you have in public cloud, but you will have two things to set: the instance type and the image, which is more administration... You will still have the templates - you will be able to choose a template which defines both. But it will be "hidden" in advanced part of the dialog. You are right, the simple way is pretty much inspired by public clouds, because they do great job in making the things easy. You basically just say you want a small machine and attach a rhel image to it. Other advantage of separating the HW and SW configuration is that you can just change the HW profile (instance type) on which you are running, or, if the instance type changes, it gets reflected in all machines using this instance type.
This is why I think keeping the template as an entity composed out of an image and a instance type would be great. yep, it seems we will keep it :) It just will be hidden in the advanced options (e.g. one more click). Sounds reasonable?
----- Original Message ----- From: "Laszlo Hornyak" <lhornyak@redhat.com> To: "Tomas Jelinek" <tjelinek@redhat.com> Cc: engine-devel@ovirt.org Sent: Monday, January 28, 2013 12:16:00 PM Subject: Re: [Engine-devel] Instance Types Feature hi, This is what I thought of: In public clouds it is common to have pre-defined instance types e.g. amazon small/medium/large/x-large instance, and this is what customers get even if they don't like it. I guess this helps Amazon a lot to simplify the decision logic for vm scheduling and pricing. In a private cloud, you choose the resources your application needs, therefore you can choose just as much as you need. Of course after introducing the instance type in ovirt, you will still have control over the instance types and create any instance type you like beyond the pre-defined types you have in public cloud, but you will have two things to set: the instance type and the image, which is more administration than just working with templates, while most of the cases the templates were enough: you created both the OS image and the virtual hardware profile it is running on. For another image and another workload, I would most likely want to create another one that just fits the needs. This is why I think keeping the template as an entity composed out of an image and a instance type would be great. Laszlo ----- Original Message -----
From: "Tomas Jelinek" <tjelinek@redhat.com> To: "Laszlo Hornyak" <lhornyak@redhat.com> Cc: engine-devel@ovirt.org Sent: Friday, January 25, 2013 1:32:20 PM Subject: Re: [Engine-devel] Instance Types Feature
Hi Laszlo,
it is not useful just for public clouds - it can be pretty useful for private as well. But to keep the previous way, it could be done this way: - on the advanced screen (after clicking "show advanced options" you can specify the template) - by default you pick on basic view the instance type (e.g. HW profile) and the Image (e.g. disk with some metadata such as OS type). But, you can select custom instance type (equivalent to blank template) and no Image. In this case the template appears also on basic view and you can select it.
What do you think?
Tomas
----- Original Message ----- From: "Laszlo Hornyak" <lhornyak@redhat.com> To: "Tomas Jelinek" <tjelinek@redhat.com> Cc: engine-devel@ovirt.org Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2013 7:16:32 PM Subject: Re: [Engine-devel] Instance Types Feature
Hi Tomas,
I like the idea in general, but for me the instance types looks like a feature that is typical in public clouds, while in private clouds it looks more like a cool extra feature for special cases. Therefore in my opinion it would be great to keep the old template solution as well to keep it simple for most users. A template could be an instance type and an image together. Only the description overlap, and that could be solved.
Thanks, Laszlo
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tomas Jelinek" <tjelinek@redhat.com> To: engine-devel@ovirt.org Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2013 3:09:51 PM Subject: [Engine-devel] Instance Types Feature
Hi All,
this is the proposed new feature called instance types: http://www.ovirt.org/Features/Instance_Types
Long story short - it should basically split the VM template into: - "hardware profile" called instance types - "software profile" called image
This should enable to do something like: Create a new "small" VM and attach a disk with "RHEL + Postgres" installed.
Any comments are more than welcome!
Tomas _______________________________________________ Engine-devel mailing list Engine-devel@ovirt.org http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/engine-devel
A hidden feature is a not existing feature :) ----- Original Message -----
From: "Tomas Jelinek" <tjelinek@redhat.com> To: "Laszlo Hornyak" <lhornyak@redhat.com> Cc: engine-devel@ovirt.org Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 8:30:26 AM Subject: Re: [Engine-devel] Instance Types Feature
Of course after introducing the instance type in ovirt, you will still have control over the instance types and create any instance type you like beyond the pre-defined types you have in public cloud, but you will have two things to set: the instance type and the image, which is more administration... You will still have the templates - you will be able to choose a template which defines both. But it will be "hidden" in advanced part of the dialog. You are right, the simple way is pretty much inspired by public clouds, because they do great job in making the things easy. You basically just say you want a small machine and attach a rhel image to it. Other advantage of separating the HW and SW configuration is that you can just change the HW profile (instance type) on which you are running, or, if the instance type changes, it gets reflected in all machines using this instance type.
This is why I think keeping the template as an entity composed out of an image and a instance type would be great. yep, it seems we will keep it :) It just will be hidden in the advanced options (e.g. one more click). Sounds reasonable?
----- Original Message ----- From: "Laszlo Hornyak" <lhornyak@redhat.com> To: "Tomas Jelinek" <tjelinek@redhat.com> Cc: engine-devel@ovirt.org Sent: Monday, January 28, 2013 12:16:00 PM Subject: Re: [Engine-devel] Instance Types Feature
hi,
This is what I thought of:
In public clouds it is common to have pre-defined instance types e.g. amazon small/medium/large/x-large instance, and this is what customers get even if they don't like it. I guess this helps Amazon a lot to simplify the decision logic for vm scheduling and pricing.
In a private cloud, you choose the resources your application needs, therefore you can choose just as much as you need.
Of course after introducing the instance type in ovirt, you will still have control over the instance types and create any instance type you like beyond the pre-defined types you have in public cloud, but you will have two things to set: the instance type and the image, which is more administration than just working with templates, while most of the cases the templates were enough: you created both the OS image and the virtual hardware profile it is running on. For another image and another workload, I would most likely want to create another one that just fits the needs.
This is why I think keeping the template as an entity composed out of an image and a instance type would be great.
Laszlo
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tomas Jelinek" <tjelinek@redhat.com> To: "Laszlo Hornyak" <lhornyak@redhat.com> Cc: engine-devel@ovirt.org Sent: Friday, January 25, 2013 1:32:20 PM Subject: Re: [Engine-devel] Instance Types Feature
Hi Laszlo,
it is not useful just for public clouds - it can be pretty useful for private as well. But to keep the previous way, it could be done this way: - on the advanced screen (after clicking "show advanced options" you can specify the template) - by default you pick on basic view the instance type (e.g. HW profile) and the Image (e.g. disk with some metadata such as OS type). But, you can select custom instance type (equivalent to blank template) and no Image. In this case the template appears also on basic view and you can select it.
What do you think?
Tomas
----- Original Message ----- From: "Laszlo Hornyak" <lhornyak@redhat.com> To: "Tomas Jelinek" <tjelinek@redhat.com> Cc: engine-devel@ovirt.org Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2013 7:16:32 PM Subject: Re: [Engine-devel] Instance Types Feature
Hi Tomas,
I like the idea in general, but for me the instance types looks like a feature that is typical in public clouds, while in private clouds it looks more like a cool extra feature for special cases. Therefore in my opinion it would be great to keep the old template solution as well to keep it simple for most users. A template could be an instance type and an image together. Only the description overlap, and that could be solved.
Thanks, Laszlo
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tomas Jelinek" <tjelinek@redhat.com> To: engine-devel@ovirt.org Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2013 3:09:51 PM Subject: [Engine-devel] Instance Types Feature
Hi All,
this is the proposed new feature called instance types: http://www.ovirt.org/Features/Instance_Types
Long story short - it should basically split the VM template into: - "hardware profile" called instance types - "software profile" called image
This should enable to do something like: Create a new "small" VM and attach a disk with "RHEL + Postgres" installed.
Any comments are more than welcome!
Tomas _______________________________________________ Engine-devel mailing list Engine-devel@ovirt.org http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/engine-devel
A hidden feature is a not existing feature :) Well, the "hide" was not a correct term :)
But where would you put it? I see the following options: 1: To the basic screen (but a bit confusing as there will be instance type and image and this dialog should be as simple as possible) 2: To the advanced screen (let's not call it hide but make it an advanced option:) ) 3: Do not add it at all (worst case) I suppose that add it to simple screen and put the Instance type and Image to the advanced one is not really an option as the main point of this feature is to actually introduce the instance types as a more convenient way of configuring the VM's HW decoupled from SW. What do you think? Do you see any other ways? I would say that the second possibility is not bad... Thank you, Tomas ----- Original Message ----- From: "Laszlo Hornyak" <lhornyak@redhat.com> To: "Tomas Jelinek" <tjelinek@redhat.com> Cc: engine-devel@ovirt.org Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 11:24:52 AM Subject: Re: [Engine-devel] Instance Types Feature A hidden feature is a not existing feature :) ----- Original Message -----
From: "Tomas Jelinek" <tjelinek@redhat.com> To: "Laszlo Hornyak" <lhornyak@redhat.com> Cc: engine-devel@ovirt.org Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 8:30:26 AM Subject: Re: [Engine-devel] Instance Types Feature
Of course after introducing the instance type in ovirt, you will still have control over the instance types and create any instance type you like beyond the pre-defined types you have in public cloud, but you will have two things to set: the instance type and the image, which is more administration... You will still have the templates - you will be able to choose a template which defines both. But it will be "hidden" in advanced part of the dialog. You are right, the simple way is pretty much inspired by public clouds, because they do great job in making the things easy. You basically just say you want a small machine and attach a rhel image to it. Other advantage of separating the HW and SW configuration is that you can just change the HW profile (instance type) on which you are running, or, if the instance type changes, it gets reflected in all machines using this instance type.
This is why I think keeping the template as an entity composed out of an image and a instance type would be great. yep, it seems we will keep it :) It just will be hidden in the advanced options (e.g. one more click). Sounds reasonable?
----- Original Message ----- From: "Laszlo Hornyak" <lhornyak@redhat.com> To: "Tomas Jelinek" <tjelinek@redhat.com> Cc: engine-devel@ovirt.org Sent: Monday, January 28, 2013 12:16:00 PM Subject: Re: [Engine-devel] Instance Types Feature
hi,
This is what I thought of:
In public clouds it is common to have pre-defined instance types e.g. amazon small/medium/large/x-large instance, and this is what customers get even if they don't like it. I guess this helps Amazon a lot to simplify the decision logic for vm scheduling and pricing.
In a private cloud, you choose the resources your application needs, therefore you can choose just as much as you need.
Of course after introducing the instance type in ovirt, you will still have control over the instance types and create any instance type you like beyond the pre-defined types you have in public cloud, but you will have two things to set: the instance type and the image, which is more administration than just working with templates, while most of the cases the templates were enough: you created both the OS image and the virtual hardware profile it is running on. For another image and another workload, I would most likely want to create another one that just fits the needs.
This is why I think keeping the template as an entity composed out of an image and a instance type would be great.
Laszlo
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tomas Jelinek" <tjelinek@redhat.com> To: "Laszlo Hornyak" <lhornyak@redhat.com> Cc: engine-devel@ovirt.org Sent: Friday, January 25, 2013 1:32:20 PM Subject: Re: [Engine-devel] Instance Types Feature
Hi Laszlo,
it is not useful just for public clouds - it can be pretty useful for private as well. But to keep the previous way, it could be done this way: - on the advanced screen (after clicking "show advanced options" you can specify the template) - by default you pick on basic view the instance type (e.g. HW profile) and the Image (e.g. disk with some metadata such as OS type). But, you can select custom instance type (equivalent to blank template) and no Image. In this case the template appears also on basic view and you can select it.
What do you think?
Tomas
----- Original Message ----- From: "Laszlo Hornyak" <lhornyak@redhat.com> To: "Tomas Jelinek" <tjelinek@redhat.com> Cc: engine-devel@ovirt.org Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2013 7:16:32 PM Subject: Re: [Engine-devel] Instance Types Feature
Hi Tomas,
I like the idea in general, but for me the instance types looks like a feature that is typical in public clouds, while in private clouds it looks more like a cool extra feature for special cases. Therefore in my opinion it would be great to keep the old template solution as well to keep it simple for most users. A template could be an instance type and an image together. Only the description overlap, and that could be solved.
Thanks, Laszlo
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tomas Jelinek" <tjelinek@redhat.com> To: engine-devel@ovirt.org Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2013 3:09:51 PM Subject: [Engine-devel] Instance Types Feature
Hi All,
this is the proposed new feature called instance types: http://www.ovirt.org/Features/Instance_Types
Long story short - it should basically split the VM template into: - "hardware profile" called instance types - "software profile" called image
This should enable to do something like: Create a new "small" VM and attach a disk with "RHEL + Postgres" installed.
Any comments are more than welcome!
Tomas _______________________________________________ Engine-devel mailing list Engine-devel@ovirt.org http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/engine-devel
So, I had a discussion with Laszlo. Long story short, the question is: @Andrew: Is the more basic use case to select the Template or to select the Instance Type + Image? Why? We need to decide it because the more basic UC should be in basic view and the less one in advanced (after clicking "show advanced options" button). The concern is, that the HW is anyhow configured to serve the SW so it, in most cases of private cloud, does not make sense to split them. So the user will have to select two combo boxes instead of one with no added value (e.g. RHEL63-instance + RHEL64-image). I understand that the advantage of having the HW and SW profile separated is that you can update the HW of all VMs created from it. But is this the basic UC or the advanced one? Thank you, Tomas ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tomas Jelinek" <tjelinek@redhat.com> To: "Laszlo Hornyak" <lhornyak@redhat.com> Cc: engine-devel@ovirt.org Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 3:26:42 PM Subject: Re: [Engine-devel] Instance Types Feature
A hidden feature is a not existing feature :) Well, the "hide" was not a correct term :)
But where would you put it? I see the following options: 1: To the basic screen (but a bit confusing as there will be instance type and image and this dialog should be as simple as possible) 2: To the advanced screen (let's not call it hide but make it an advanced option:) ) 3: Do not add it at all (worst case) I suppose that add it to simple screen and put the Instance type and Image to the advanced one is not really an option as the main point of this feature is to actually introduce the instance types as a more convenient way of configuring the VM's HW decoupled from SW. What do you think? Do you see any other ways? I would say that the second possibility is not bad... Thank you, Tomas ----- Original Message ----- From: "Laszlo Hornyak" <lhornyak@redhat.com> To: "Tomas Jelinek" <tjelinek@redhat.com> Cc: engine-devel@ovirt.org Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 11:24:52 AM Subject: Re: [Engine-devel] Instance Types Feature A hidden feature is a not existing feature :) ----- Original Message -----
From: "Tomas Jelinek" <tjelinek@redhat.com> To: "Laszlo Hornyak" <lhornyak@redhat.com> Cc: engine-devel@ovirt.org Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 8:30:26 AM Subject: Re: [Engine-devel] Instance Types Feature
Of course after introducing the instance type in ovirt, you will still have control over the instance types and create any instance type you like beyond the pre-defined types you have in public cloud, but you will have two things to set: the instance type and the image, which is more administration... You will still have the templates - you will be able to choose a template which defines both. But it will be "hidden" in advanced part of the dialog. You are right, the simple way is pretty much inspired by public clouds, because they do great job in making the things easy. You basically just say you want a small machine and attach a rhel image to it. Other advantage of separating the HW and SW configuration is that you can just change the HW profile (instance type) on which you are running, or, if the instance type changes, it gets reflected in all machines using this instance type.
This is why I think keeping the template as an entity composed out of an image and a instance type would be great. yep, it seems we will keep it :) It just will be hidden in the advanced options (e.g. one more click). Sounds reasonable?
----- Original Message ----- From: "Laszlo Hornyak" <lhornyak@redhat.com> To: "Tomas Jelinek" <tjelinek@redhat.com> Cc: engine-devel@ovirt.org Sent: Monday, January 28, 2013 12:16:00 PM Subject: Re: [Engine-devel] Instance Types Feature
hi,
This is what I thought of:
In public clouds it is common to have pre-defined instance types e.g. amazon small/medium/large/x-large instance, and this is what customers get even if they don't like it. I guess this helps Amazon a lot to simplify the decision logic for vm scheduling and pricing.
In a private cloud, you choose the resources your application needs, therefore you can choose just as much as you need.
Of course after introducing the instance type in ovirt, you will still have control over the instance types and create any instance type you like beyond the pre-defined types you have in public cloud, but you will have two things to set: the instance type and the image, which is more administration than just working with templates, while most of the cases the templates were enough: you created both the OS image and the virtual hardware profile it is running on. For another image and another workload, I would most likely want to create another one that just fits the needs.
This is why I think keeping the template as an entity composed out of an image and a instance type would be great.
Laszlo
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tomas Jelinek" <tjelinek@redhat.com> To: "Laszlo Hornyak" <lhornyak@redhat.com> Cc: engine-devel@ovirt.org Sent: Friday, January 25, 2013 1:32:20 PM Subject: Re: [Engine-devel] Instance Types Feature
Hi Laszlo,
it is not useful just for public clouds - it can be pretty useful for private as well. But to keep the previous way, it could be done this way: - on the advanced screen (after clicking "show advanced options" you can specify the template) - by default you pick on basic view the instance type (e.g. HW profile) and the Image (e.g. disk with some metadata such as OS type). But, you can select custom instance type (equivalent to blank template) and no Image. In this case the template appears also on basic view and you can select it.
What do you think?
Tomas
----- Original Message ----- From: "Laszlo Hornyak" <lhornyak@redhat.com> To: "Tomas Jelinek" <tjelinek@redhat.com> Cc: engine-devel@ovirt.org Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2013 7:16:32 PM Subject: Re: [Engine-devel] Instance Types Feature
Hi Tomas,
I like the idea in general, but for me the instance types looks like a feature that is typical in public clouds, while in private clouds it looks more like a cool extra feature for special cases. Therefore in my opinion it would be great to keep the old template solution as well to keep it simple for most users. A template could be an instance type and an image together. Only the description overlap, and that could be solved.
Thanks, Laszlo
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tomas Jelinek" <tjelinek@redhat.com> To: engine-devel@ovirt.org Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2013 3:09:51 PM Subject: [Engine-devel] Instance Types Feature
Hi All,
this is the proposed new feature called instance types: http://www.ovirt.org/Features/Instance_Types
Long story short - it should basically split the VM template into: - "hardware profile" called instance types - "software profile" called image
This should enable to do something like: Create a new "small" VM and attach a disk with "RHEL + Postgres" installed.
Any comments are more than welcome!
Tomas _______________________________________________ Engine-devel mailing list Engine-devel@ovirt.org http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/engine-devel
_______________________________________________ Engine-devel mailing list Engine-devel@ovirt.org http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/engine-devel
So, I had a discussion with Laszlo. Long story short, the question is: @Andrew: Is the more basic use case to select the Template or to select the Instance Type + Image? Why?
We need to decide it because the more basic UC should be in basic view and the less one in advanced (after clicking "show advanced options" button).
The concern is, that the HW is anyhow configured to serve the SW so it, in most cases of private cloud, does not make sense to split them. So the user will have to select two combo boxes instead of one with no added value (e.g. RHEL63-instance + RHEL64-image).
I understand that the advantage of having the HW and SW profile separated is that you can update the HW of all VMs created from it. But is this the basic UC or the advanced one?
I have checked with Andy, it seems like this: the users complains that the "new VM dialog" has far too many options and it is hard to start using it. After this change, the oVirt will be shipped with preconfigured instance types (e.g. something like small, medium, large etc) which will pre-fill the dialog, and unless you press the "show advanced options" you won't even know how. It should enhance the learning curve of new users. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tomas Jelinek" <tjelinek@redhat.com> To: "Laszlo Hornyak" <lhornyak@redhat.com> Cc: engine-devel@ovirt.org Sent: Monday, February 4, 2013 12:08:37 PM Subject: Re: [Engine-devel] Instance Types Feature So, I had a discussion with Laszlo. Long story short, the question is: @Andrew: Is the more basic use case to select the Template or to select the Instance Type + Image? Why? We need to decide it because the more basic UC should be in basic view and the less one in advanced (after clicking "show advanced options" button). The concern is, that the HW is anyhow configured to serve the SW so it, in most cases of private cloud, does not make sense to split them. So the user will have to select two combo boxes instead of one with no added value (e.g. RHEL63-instance + RHEL64-image). I understand that the advantage of having the HW and SW profile separated is that you can update the HW of all VMs created from it. But is this the basic UC or the advanced one? Thank you, Tomas ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tomas Jelinek" <tjelinek@redhat.com> To: "Laszlo Hornyak" <lhornyak@redhat.com> Cc: engine-devel@ovirt.org Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 3:26:42 PM Subject: Re: [Engine-devel] Instance Types Feature
A hidden feature is a not existing feature :) Well, the "hide" was not a correct term :)
But where would you put it? I see the following options: 1: To the basic screen (but a bit confusing as there will be instance type and image and this dialog should be as simple as possible) 2: To the advanced screen (let's not call it hide but make it an advanced option:) ) 3: Do not add it at all (worst case) I suppose that add it to simple screen and put the Instance type and Image to the advanced one is not really an option as the main point of this feature is to actually introduce the instance types as a more convenient way of configuring the VM's HW decoupled from SW. What do you think? Do you see any other ways? I would say that the second possibility is not bad... Thank you, Tomas ----- Original Message ----- From: "Laszlo Hornyak" <lhornyak@redhat.com> To: "Tomas Jelinek" <tjelinek@redhat.com> Cc: engine-devel@ovirt.org Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 11:24:52 AM Subject: Re: [Engine-devel] Instance Types Feature A hidden feature is a not existing feature :) ----- Original Message -----
From: "Tomas Jelinek" <tjelinek@redhat.com> To: "Laszlo Hornyak" <lhornyak@redhat.com> Cc: engine-devel@ovirt.org Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 8:30:26 AM Subject: Re: [Engine-devel] Instance Types Feature
Of course after introducing the instance type in ovirt, you will still have control over the instance types and create any instance type you like beyond the pre-defined types you have in public cloud, but you will have two things to set: the instance type and the image, which is more administration... You will still have the templates - you will be able to choose a template which defines both. But it will be "hidden" in advanced part of the dialog. You are right, the simple way is pretty much inspired by public clouds, because they do great job in making the things easy. You basically just say you want a small machine and attach a rhel image to it. Other advantage of separating the HW and SW configuration is that you can just change the HW profile (instance type) on which you are running, or, if the instance type changes, it gets reflected in all machines using this instance type.
This is why I think keeping the template as an entity composed out of an image and a instance type would be great. yep, it seems we will keep it :) It just will be hidden in the advanced options (e.g. one more click). Sounds reasonable?
----- Original Message ----- From: "Laszlo Hornyak" <lhornyak@redhat.com> To: "Tomas Jelinek" <tjelinek@redhat.com> Cc: engine-devel@ovirt.org Sent: Monday, January 28, 2013 12:16:00 PM Subject: Re: [Engine-devel] Instance Types Feature
hi,
This is what I thought of:
In public clouds it is common to have pre-defined instance types e.g. amazon small/medium/large/x-large instance, and this is what customers get even if they don't like it. I guess this helps Amazon a lot to simplify the decision logic for vm scheduling and pricing.
In a private cloud, you choose the resources your application needs, therefore you can choose just as much as you need.
Of course after introducing the instance type in ovirt, you will still have control over the instance types and create any instance type you like beyond the pre-defined types you have in public cloud, but you will have two things to set: the instance type and the image, which is more administration than just working with templates, while most of the cases the templates were enough: you created both the OS image and the virtual hardware profile it is running on. For another image and another workload, I would most likely want to create another one that just fits the needs.
This is why I think keeping the template as an entity composed out of an image and a instance type would be great.
Laszlo
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tomas Jelinek" <tjelinek@redhat.com> To: "Laszlo Hornyak" <lhornyak@redhat.com> Cc: engine-devel@ovirt.org Sent: Friday, January 25, 2013 1:32:20 PM Subject: Re: [Engine-devel] Instance Types Feature
Hi Laszlo,
it is not useful just for public clouds - it can be pretty useful for private as well. But to keep the previous way, it could be done this way: - on the advanced screen (after clicking "show advanced options" you can specify the template) - by default you pick on basic view the instance type (e.g. HW profile) and the Image (e.g. disk with some metadata such as OS type). But, you can select custom instance type (equivalent to blank template) and no Image. In this case the template appears also on basic view and you can select it.
What do you think?
Tomas
----- Original Message ----- From: "Laszlo Hornyak" <lhornyak@redhat.com> To: "Tomas Jelinek" <tjelinek@redhat.com> Cc: engine-devel@ovirt.org Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2013 7:16:32 PM Subject: Re: [Engine-devel] Instance Types Feature
Hi Tomas,
I like the idea in general, but for me the instance types looks like a feature that is typical in public clouds, while in private clouds it looks more like a cool extra feature for special cases. Therefore in my opinion it would be great to keep the old template solution as well to keep it simple for most users. A template could be an instance type and an image together. Only the description overlap, and that could be solved.
Thanks, Laszlo
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tomas Jelinek" <tjelinek@redhat.com> To: engine-devel@ovirt.org Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2013 3:09:51 PM Subject: [Engine-devel] Instance Types Feature
Hi All,
this is the proposed new feature called instance types: http://www.ovirt.org/Features/Instance_Types
Long story short - it should basically split the VM template into: - "hardware profile" called instance types - "software profile" called image
This should enable to do something like: Create a new "small" VM and attach a disk with "RHEL + Postgres" installed.
Any comments are more than welcome!
Tomas _______________________________________________ Engine-devel mailing list Engine-devel@ovirt.org http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/engine-devel
_______________________________________________ Engine-devel mailing list Engine-devel@ovirt.org http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/engine-devel _______________________________________________ Engine-devel mailing list Engine-devel@ovirt.org http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/engine-devel
Hi, Why are the flavors predefined, and not configured, or let's say that we provide predefined instance types, and let a way to provide custom instance types Yair ----- Original Message -----
From: "Tomas Jelinek" <tjelinek@redhat.com> To: engine-devel@ovirt.org Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2013 3:09:51 PM Subject: [Engine-devel] Instance Types Feature
Hi All,
this is the proposed new feature called instance types: http://www.ovirt.org/Features/Instance_Types
Long story short - it should basically split the VM template into: - "hardware profile" called instance types - "software profile" called image
This should enable to do something like: Create a new "small" VM and attach a disk with "RHEL + Postgres" installed.
Any comments are more than welcome!
Tomas _______________________________________________ Engine-devel mailing list Engine-devel@ovirt.org http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/engine-devel
On Jan 28, 2013, at 17:57 , Yair Zaslavsky <yzaslavs@redhat.com> wrote:
Hi, Why are the flavors predefined, and not configured, or let's say that we provide predefined instance types, and let a way to provide custom instance types Our plan was to provide couple of predefined types and let user create own if needed. Custom means an extra type where you can specify anything when creating a VM (or use a template). A change to one of the instance type's parameter(say, mem size) will change the type to Custom while creating a VM. Otherwise the VM will be tied to its instance type and update to the instance type will be global and reflected in all relevant VMs.
Thanks, michal
Yair
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tomas Jelinek" <tjelinek@redhat.com> To: engine-devel@ovirt.org Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2013 3:09:51 PM Subject: [Engine-devel] Instance Types Feature
Hi All,
this is the proposed new feature called instance types: http://www.ovirt.org/Features/Instance_Types
Long story short - it should basically split the VM template into: - "hardware profile" called instance types - "software profile" called image
This should enable to do something like: Create a new "small" VM and attach a disk with "RHEL + Postgres" installed.
Any comments are more than welcome!
Tomas _______________________________________________ Engine-devel mailing list Engine-devel@ovirt.org http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/engine-devel
_______________________________________________ Engine-devel mailing list Engine-devel@ovirt.org http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/engine-devel
Some questions: 1. Why do we need a new set of permissions for "Create Instance" and "Instance Owner"? Aren't the VmCreator role and the UserVmManager role enough in these use-cases? 2. iiuc, the internal implementation of instance types and images will be done using templates. However, I guess we plan to expose instance types and images as REST resources, right? Thank you, Oved ----- Original Message -----
From: "Tomas Jelinek" <tjelinek@redhat.com> To: engine-devel@ovirt.org Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2013 3:09:51 PM Subject: [Engine-devel] Instance Types Feature
Hi All,
this is the proposed new feature called instance types: http://www.ovirt.org/Features/Instance_Types
Long story short - it should basically split the VM template into: - "hardware profile" called instance types - "software profile" called image
This should enable to do something like: Create a new "small" VM and attach a disk with "RHEL + Postgres" installed.
Any comments are more than welcome!
Tomas _______________________________________________ Engine-devel mailing list Engine-devel@ovirt.org http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/engine-devel
1. Why do we need a new set of permissions for "Create Instance" and "Instance Owner"? Aren't the VmCreator role and the UserVmManager role enough in these use-cases? ccing Andrew, he might know best
2. iiuc, the internal implementation of instance types and images will be done using templates. correct However, I guess we plan to expose instance types and images as REST resources, right? yes, however the REST will be discussed more deeply once there will be an agreement on FE and BE.
Tomas ----- Original Message ----- From: "Oved Ourfalli" <ovedo@redhat.com> To: "Tomas Jelinek" <tjelinek@redhat.com> Cc: engine-devel@ovirt.org Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2013 2:54:13 PM Subject: Re: [Engine-devel] Instance Types Feature Some questions: 1. Why do we need a new set of permissions for "Create Instance" and "Instance Owner"? Aren't the VmCreator role and the UserVmManager role enough in these use-cases? 2. iiuc, the internal implementation of instance types and images will be done using templates. However, I guess we plan to expose instance types and images as REST resources, right? Thank you, Oved ----- Original Message -----
From: "Tomas Jelinek" <tjelinek@redhat.com> To: engine-devel@ovirt.org Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2013 3:09:51 PM Subject: [Engine-devel] Instance Types Feature
Hi All,
this is the proposed new feature called instance types: http://www.ovirt.org/Features/Instance_Types
Long story short - it should basically split the VM template into: - "hardware profile" called instance types - "software profile" called image
This should enable to do something like: Create a new "small" VM and attach a disk with "RHEL + Postgres" installed.
Any comments are more than welcome!
Tomas _______________________________________________ Engine-devel mailing list Engine-devel@ovirt.org http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/engine-devel
> 1. Why do we need a new set of permissions for "Create Instance" and "Instance Owner"? Aren't the VmCreator role and the UserVmManager role enough in these use-cases? so checked this with Andy: - Create Instance: it is a permission to actually see the instance types in the list of instance types when creating the VM and to be able to create a VM from that instance type - Instance Owner: if the user has this permission, he can edit the fields marked as "Basic User" in the table in the wiki (but not the others) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Oved Ourfalli" <ovedo@redhat.com> To: "Tomas Jelinek" <tjelinek@redhat.com> Cc: engine-devel@ovirt.org Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2013 2:54:13 PM Subject: Re: [Engine-devel] Instance Types Feature Some questions: 1. Why do we need a new set of permissions for "Create Instance" and "Instance Owner"? Aren't the VmCreator role and the UserVmManager role enough in these use-cases? 2. iiuc, the internal implementation of instance types and images will be done using templates. However, I guess we plan to expose instance types and images as REST resources, right? Thank you, Oved ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Tomas Jelinek" <tjelinek@redhat.com> > To: engine-devel@ovirt.org > Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2013 3:09:51 PM > Subject: [Engine-devel] Instance Types Feature > > Hi All, > > this is the proposed new feature called instance types: > http://www.ovirt.org/Features/Instance_Types > > Long story short - it should basically split the VM template into: > - "hardware profile" called instance types > - "software profile" called image > > This should enable to do something like: Create a new "small" VM and > attach a disk with "RHEL + Postgres" installed. > > Any comments are more than welcome! > > Tomas > _______________________________________________ > Engine-devel mailing list > Engine-devel@ovirt.org > http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/engine-devel >
I have completed the "User Interface" part (e.g. where the Images, Instance Types and Templates main tabs will be). http://www.ovirt.org/Features/Instance_Types#User_Interface Your comments are welcome, Tomas ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tomas Jelinek" <tjelinek@redhat.com> To: "Oved Ourfalli" <ovedo@redhat.com> Cc: engine-devel@ovirt.org Sent: Tuesday, February 5, 2013 5:14:00 PM Subject: Re: [Engine-devel] Instance Types Feature > 1. Why do we need a new set of permissions for "Create Instance" and "Instance Owner"? Aren't the VmCreator role and the UserVmManager role enough in these use-cases? so checked this with Andy: - Create Instance: it is a permission to actually see the instance types in the list of instance types when creating the VM and to be able to create a VM from that instance type - Instance Owner: if the user has this permission, he can edit the fields marked as "Basic User" in the table in the wiki (but not the others) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Oved Ourfalli" <ovedo@redhat.com> To: "Tomas Jelinek" <tjelinek@redhat.com> Cc: engine-devel@ovirt.org Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2013 2:54:13 PM Subject: Re: [Engine-devel] Instance Types Feature Some questions: 1. Why do we need a new set of permissions for "Create Instance" and "Instance Owner"? Aren't the VmCreator role and the UserVmManager role enough in these use-cases? 2. iiuc, the internal implementation of instance types and images will be done using templates. However, I guess we plan to expose instance types and images as REST resources, right? Thank you, Oved ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Tomas Jelinek" <tjelinek@redhat.com> > To: engine-devel@ovirt.org > Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2013 3:09:51 PM > Subject: [Engine-devel] Instance Types Feature > > Hi All, > > this is the proposed new feature called instance types: > http://www.ovirt.org/Features/Instance_Types > > Long story short - it should basically split the VM template into: > - "hardware profile" called instance types > - "software profile" called image > > This should enable to do something like: Create a new "small" VM and > attach a disk with "RHEL + Postgres" installed. > > Any comments are more than welcome! > > Tomas > _______________________________________________ > Engine-devel mailing list > Engine-devel@ovirt.org > http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/engine-devel > _______________________________________________ Engine-devel mailing list Engine-devel@ovirt.org http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/engine-devel
Hi Tomas,
I've couple of comments, mainly from User POV.
Currently:
- we've many useful information, but only on Template tab. Once user
(administrator) wants create new VM, he HAVE TO go to template tab,
remember/write down name of template & then went back to VM tab & create Vm
from desired template.
New after this change:
- Administrator will go to tree - clicks few times (or just once in case is
expanded by default), then to DC then to Template tab.
Overall at lest +1 click => almost EACH time someone needs to create VM?
What if we bring these changes?
- Create VM window will show as much info about template as possible
- Description, NICs, list pf apps! (there is plenty useless space in gray
area on top of this window above/top/between {DC & CLUSTER})
- as much info as possible (VM subtab on Hosts/Templates main tabs)
- links between entities which are leading to different entities - once I'm in
template VM subtab, why I can't click to button & be transferred to VM tab to
see all info about this VM?
After mentioned changes I don't really care in which layer or how deep tabs
are. Currently we're adding/deleting tabs in each release in a loop.
P.
On Thursday 07 of February 2013 04:18:36 Tomas Jelinek wrote:
> I have completed the "User Interface" part (e.g. where the Images, Instance
> Types and Templates main tabs will be).
> http://www.ovirt.org/Features/Instance_Types#User_Interface
>
> Your comments are welcome,
> Tomas
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tomas Jelinek" <tjelinek@redhat.com>
> To: "Oved Ourfalli" <ovedo@redhat.com>
> Cc: engine-devel@ovirt.org
> Sent: Tuesday, February 5, 2013 5:14:00 PM
> Subject: Re: [Engine-devel] Instance Types Feature
>
> > 1. Why do we need a new set of permissions for "Create Instance" and
> > "Instance Owner"? Aren't the VmCreator role and the UserVmManager role
> > enough in these use-cases?
> so checked this with Andy:
> - Create Instance: it is a permission to actually see the instance types in
> the list of instance types when creating the VM and to be able to create a
> VM from that instance type - Instance Owner: if the user has this
> permission, he can edit the fields marked as "Basic User" in the table in
> the wiki (but not the others)
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Oved Ourfalli" <ovedo@redhat.com>
> To: "Tomas Jelinek" <tjelinek@redhat.com>
> Cc: engine-devel@ovirt.org
> Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2013 2:54:13 PM
> Subject: Re: [Engine-devel] Instance Types Feature
>
> Some questions:
> 1. Why do we need a new set of permissions for "Create Instance" and
> "Instance Owner"? Aren't the VmCreator role and the UserVmManager role
> enough in these use-cases? 2. iiuc, the internal implementation of instance
> types and images will be done using templates. However, I guess we plan to
> expose instance types and images as REST resources, right?
>
> Thank you,
> Oved
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> > From: "Tomas Jelinek" <tjelinek@redhat.com>
> > To: engine-devel@ovirt.org
> > Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2013 3:09:51 PM
> > Subject: [Engine-devel] Instance Types Feature
> >
> > Hi All,
> >
> > this is the proposed new feature called instance types:
> > http://www.ovirt.org/Features/Instance_Types
> >
> > Long story short - it should basically split the VM template into:
> > - "hardware profile" called instance types
> > - "software profile" called image
> >
> > This should enable to do something like: Create a new "small" VM and
> > attach a disk with "RHEL + Postgres" installed.
> >
> > Any comments are more than welcome!
> >
> > Tomas
> > _______________________________________________
> > Engine-devel mailing list
> > Engine-devel@ovirt.org
> > http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/engine-devel
>
> _______________________________________________
> Engine-devel mailing list
> Engine-devel@ovirt.org
> http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/engine-devel
> _______________________________________________
> Engine-devel mailing list
> Engine-devel@ovirt.org
> http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/engine-devel
----- Original Message ----- > From: "Tomas Jelinek" <tjelinek@redhat.com> > To: "Oved Ourfalli" <ovedo@redhat.com> > Cc: engine-devel@ovirt.org > Sent: Tuesday, February 5, 2013 6:14:00 PM > Subject: Re: [Engine-devel] Instance Types Feature > > > 1. Why do we need a new set of permissions for "Create Instance" > > and "Instance Owner"? Aren't the VmCreator role and the > > UserVmManager role enough in these use-cases? > so checked this with Andy: > - Create Instance: it is a permission to actually see the instance > types in the list of instance types when creating the VM and to be > able to create a VM from that instance type Wouldn't we want the instance types to be public, limiting the user on resources according to his Quota? What worries me is that you currently need VmCreator role on a DC in order to be able to create VMs there, add disks, and etc. So, now you would also need to have a CreateInstance permission. And, in addition, you also need the right Quota. Why not simplifying things, saying all instance types are public, and you only need VmCreator role, and the Quota for your new resources? > - Instance Owner: if the user has this permission, he can edit the > fields marked as "Basic User" in the table in the wiki (but not the > others) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Oved Ourfalli" <ovedo@redhat.com> > To: "Tomas Jelinek" <tjelinek@redhat.com> > Cc: engine-devel@ovirt.org > Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2013 2:54:13 PM > Subject: Re: [Engine-devel] Instance Types Feature > > Some questions: > 1. Why do we need a new set of permissions for "Create Instance" and > "Instance Owner"? Aren't the VmCreator role and the UserVmManager > role enough in these use-cases? > 2. iiuc, the internal implementation of instance types and images > will be done using templates. However, I guess we plan to expose > instance types and images as REST resources, right? > > Thank you, > Oved > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Tomas Jelinek" <tjelinek@redhat.com> > > To: engine-devel@ovirt.org > > Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2013 3:09:51 PM > > Subject: [Engine-devel] Instance Types Feature > > > > Hi All, > > > > this is the proposed new feature called instance types: > > http://www.ovirt.org/Features/Instance_Types > > > > Long story short - it should basically split the VM template into: > > - "hardware profile" called instance types > > - "software profile" called image > > > > This should enable to do something like: Create a new "small" VM > > and > > attach a disk with "RHEL + Postgres" installed. > > > > Any comments are more than welcome! > > > > Tomas > > _______________________________________________ > > Engine-devel mailing list > > Engine-devel@ovirt.org > > http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/engine-devel > > > _______________________________________________ > Engine-devel mailing list > Engine-devel@ovirt.org > http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/engine-devel >
participants (6)
-
Laszlo Hornyak -
Michal Skrivanek -
Oved Ourfalli -
pstehlik -
Tomas Jelinek -
Yair Zaslavsky