9:21 a.m.
I'd like to ask the team what do you think on $subject, in terms of pros &
cons.
As you all know we have been using puppet to manage our production infra
(user access, server configuration,etc... ).
Recently we started looking into migrating our mailman instance into new
hyper-kitty instance to run on the oVirt DC in PHX.
It seems that there is no true puppet classes available to install/manage
mailman3 but there is an Ansible playbook used / written by fedora to
deploy their instance.
So the question is should we start using/supporting Ansible as another tool
to manage our infra and leverage existing playbooks out there to reduce
work on migration of new services?
I'm not suggesting to migrate all puppet code into Ansible, but to allow
using Ansible when it make sense.
Here is what I had in mind with regards to pro/cons:
Pros
- Saving time writing puppet classes for services (if Ansible playbook
exists)
- Bringing in new infra members which are interested in Ansbile (maybe
publish the team in the relevant communities)
Cons:
- Another tool to support/maintain
- No real support to manage in foreman as we do for puppet (for sure not
in our old version)
I'd love to hear your thoughts about it.
--
Eyal Edri
Associate Manager
RHEV DevOps
EMEA ENG Virtualization R&D
Red Hat Israel
phone: +972-9-7692018
irc: eedri (on #tlv #rhev-dev #rhev-integ)
9:42 a.m.
On 3 April 2016 at 10:21, Eyal Edri <eedri(a)redhat.com> wrote:
I'd like to ask the team what do you think on $subject, in terms
of pros &
cons.
As you all know we have been using puppet to manage our production infra
(user access, server configuration,etc... ).
Recently we started looking into migrating our mailman instance into new
hyper-kitty instance to run on the oVirt DC in PHX.
It seems that there is no true puppet classes available to install/manage
mailman3 but there is an Ansible playbook used / written by fedora to deploy
their instance.
So the question is should we start using/supporting Ansible as another tool
to manage our infra and leverage existing playbooks out there to reduce work
on migration of new services?
I'm not suggesting to migrate all puppet code into Ansible, but to allow
using Ansible when it make sense.
Here is what I had in mind with regards to pro/cons:
Pros
Saving time writing puppet classes for services (if Ansible playbook exists)
Bringing in new infra members which are interested in Ansbile (maybe publish
the team in the relevant communities)
Cons:
Another tool to support/maintain
No real support to manage in foreman as we do for puppet (for sure not in
our old version)
I'd love to hear your thoughts about it.
As I've already stated elsewhere Ansible is interesting for a number
of reasons, but a dual-tool scenario will not be welcome IMO.
There is also a lage question of the possibility of replacing Puppet
with Ansible. Puppet is a continues configuration-management system
that monitors servers for configuration drift and repairs it
(deploying missing components in the process), to do that it supports
a declarative language and a master/slave-agent architecture.
The common Ansible usage scenario OTOH seems to be AFAIK a
developer/op launching a deployment task from his laptop. For that
Ansible supports a more imperative syntax and an SSH-based agent-less
architecture.
IMO, for long-running on-premise infrastructure (Not ad-hoc in "the
cloud") which is what oVirt has and what what it targets, the drift
monitoring approach is more suitable.
Now, I've hared that that Ansible could also be deployed with agents
and a central server (Tower? Foreman? something else?), but I'm not
sure how mature that deployment scenario is right now, nor wither
existing Ansible code fits that scenario.
--
Barak Korren
bkorren(a)redhat.com
RHEV-CI Team
10:57 a.m.
I think another point for consideration is the Puppet+Foreman support,
foreman doesn't support puppet 4 yet[1], but f23 runs only with puppet >4
agents, if that doesn't get fixed soon and we can't upgrade puppet to 4, we
will hit a big problem when we need to migrate more slaves to f23.
[1] http://projects.theforeman.org/issues/8447
On Sun, Apr 3, 2016 at 10:42 AM, Barak Korren <bkorren(a)redhat.com> wrote:
On 3 April 2016 at 10:21, Eyal Edri <eedri(a)redhat.com> wrote:
> I'd like to ask the team what do you think on $subject, in terms of pros
&
> cons.
>
> As you all know we have been using puppet to manage our production infra
> (user access, server configuration,etc... ).
>
> Recently we started looking into migrating our mailman instance into new
> hyper-kitty instance to run on the oVirt DC in PHX.
> It seems that there is no true puppet classes available to install/manage
> mailman3 but there is an Ansible playbook used / written by fedora to
deploy
> their instance.
> So the question is should we start using/supporting Ansible as another
tool
> to manage our infra and leverage existing playbooks out there to reduce
work
> on migration of new services?
> I'm not suggesting to migrate all puppet code into Ansible, but to allow
> using Ansible when it make sense.
>
> Here is what I had in mind with regards to pro/cons:
> Pros
>
> Saving time writing puppet classes for services (if Ansible playbook
exists)
> Bringing in new infra members which are interested in Ansbile (maybe
publish
> the team in the relevant communities)
>
>
> Cons:
>
> Another tool to support/maintain
> No real support to manage in foreman as we do for puppet (for sure not in
> our old version)
>
>
>
> I'd love to hear your thoughts about it.
>
As I've already stated elsewhere Ansible is interesting for a number
of reasons, but a dual-tool scenario will not be welcome IMO.
There is also a lage question of the possibility of replacing Puppet
with Ansible. Puppet is a continues configuration-management system
that monitors servers for configuration drift and repairs it
(deploying missing components in the process), to do that it supports
a declarative language and a master/slave-agent architecture.
The common Ansible usage scenario OTOH seems to be AFAIK a
developer/op launching a deployment task from his laptop. For that
Ansible supports a more imperative syntax and an SSH-based agent-less
architecture.
IMO, for long-running on-premise infrastructure (Not ad-hoc in "the
cloud") which is what oVirt has and what what it targets, the drift
monitoring approach is more suitable.
Now, I've hared that that Ansible could also be deployed with agents
and a central server (Tower? Foreman? something else?), but I'm not
sure how mature that deployment scenario is right now, nor wither
existing Ansible code fits that scenario.
--
Barak Korren
bkorren(a)redhat.com
RHEV-CI Team
_______________________________________________
Infra mailing list
Infra(a)ovirt.org
http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/infra
4:14 a.m.
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Quack,
On 04/03/2016 04:42 PM, Barak Korren wrote:
IMO, for long-running on-premise infrastructure (Not ad-hoc in
"the
cloud") which is what oVirt has and what what it targets, the drift
monitoring approach is more suitable.
It is possible to run Ansible on an admin machine with a crontab or
triggered by git pushes or Jenkins. It can report changes/drifts in dry
run mode, but the results are not easy to read.
I think there is something in Tower for parsing the output and do proper
report but I never could try it
(https://www.ansible.com/security-and-compliance). I wonder when it will
be opensourced. Misc do you have any idea on this (and maybe tested some
of these features)?
Regards.
--AKJMEmsUhTmxAKhMvv3kTD5ur8Dt6DHge
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11:29 a.m.
Le lundi 04 avril 2016 à 11:14 +0900, Marc Dequènes (Duck) a écrit :
Quack,
On 04/03/2016 04:42 PM, Barak Korren wrote:
> IMO, for long-running on-premise infrastructure (Not ad-hoc in "the
> cloud") which is what oVirt has and what what it targets, the drift
> monitoring approach is more suitable.
It is possible to run Ansible on an admin machine with a crontab or
triggered by git pushes or Jenkins. It can report changes/drifts in dry
run mode, but the results are not easy to read.
I think there is something in Tower for parsing the output and do proper
report but I never could try it
(https://www.ansible.com/security-and-compliance). I wonder when it will
be opensourced. Misc do you have any idea on this (and maybe tested some
of these features)?
No idea on when this is gonna be open sourced (I keep asking), and
didn't test the feature.
However, foreman do support reporting from ansible, IIRC.
You can get the list of server from foreman since a long time, you can
store result in foreman, and I am quite sure that would be trivial to
store facts in foreman. There was a few demo during fosdem and cfgmgmt
camp, but I didn't listened as closely as I should (due to breakage and
sysadmin stuff during the talk)
See http://cfgmgmtcamp.eu/schedule/speakers/DanielLobatoGarcia.html so
maybe someone can contact him so he can tell the state of the art
regarding integration ?
--
Michael Scherer
Sysadmin, Community Infrastructure and Platform, OSAS
9:32 a.m.
This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156)
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Quack,
On 04/04/2016 06:29 PM, Michael Scherer wrote:
However, foreman do support reporting from ansible, IIRC.
=20
You can get the list of server from foreman since a long time, you can
store result in foreman, and I am quite sure that would be trivial to
store facts in foreman. There was a few demo during fosdem and cfgmgmt
camp, but I didn't listened as closely as I should (due to breakage and=
sysadmin stuff during the talk)
=20
See http://cfgmgmtcamp.eu/schedule/speakers/DanielLobatoGarcia.html so
maybe someone can contact him so he can tell the state of the art
regarding integration ?=20
There's no video recording or links to slides on the cfgmgmt site
unfortunately. Nevertheless this person is contrinuting to several
modules like this one:
https://github.com/dLobatog/foreman_ansible
It links to a dynamic inventory module, and there's facts and reporting.
So, dear list, is there any other features you would miss? any concern?
I'd be glad to contact this guy but I don't know much about Foreman
except FOSDEM talks and not much (yet) about your needs, so please help!
Regards.
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10:13 a.m.
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Quack,
On 04/05/2016 04:32 PM, Marc Dequ=E8nes (Duck) wrote:
So, dear list, is there any other features you would miss? any
concern?=
I'd be glad to contact this guy but I don't know much about
Foreman
except FOSDEM talks and not much (yet) about your needs, so please help=
!
Would anyone give a hand please?
The Foreman version is old, so maybe this is the right time to reflect
on some modernization. This is clearly a more bold task than we
expected, but in the long run=85 I can also most probably get some time t=
o
give a hand on this migration.
If needed I will learn Puppet, but this is not a 5 minute job. As the
upstream Puppet rules are crap, this means some work, so expect more
time to get to it.
Let's at least raise the concerns you may have with this Foreman+Ansible
combination now, this will surely be useful in the future if not now.
Regards.
--ukXOxSq2QXX1FenopQJ9UpSKCbKln4jqn
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10:38 a.m.
> So, dear list, is there any other features you would miss? any
concern?
> I'd be glad to contact this guy but I don't know much about Foreman
> except FOSDEM talks and not much (yet) about your needs, so please help!
Would anyone give a hand please?
Well, what kind of hand is needed?
I remain unconvinced about the benefits of using Ansible here as
oppsed to the downsides of maintaining two CM systems in parallel.
The Foreman version is old, so maybe this is the right time to
reflect
on some modernization. This is clearly a more bold task than we
expected, but in the long run… I can also most probably get some time to
give a hand on this migration.
Yeah I'm the current owner of the ticket to upgrade it and migrate it
to PHX, I will get to it eventually...
If needed I will learn Puppet, but this is not a 5 minute job. As
the
upstream Puppet rules are crap, this means some work, so expect more
time to get to it.
I think doing this kind of work will benefit us as well as others, it
should not be too much trouble imo.
Consider sending a rough patch to Gerrit, we can help and lead you from there.
Let's at least raise the concerns you may have with this
Foreman+Ansible
combination now, this will surely be useful in the future if not now.
Eyal suggested using Ansible right now in a one-off fashion to get the
Mailman server up. I don't particularity like that idea beucase it
seems to me it would make us incur some technical debt we will not pay
quickly. I'd rather pay it upfront. But I can understand if we want to
take such short cuts it the interest of getting Mailman out of some
bad state it is currently it. I'm not sure what is the situation with
it right now.
--
Barak Korren
bkorren(a)redhat.com
RHEV-CI Team
11:36 a.m.
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Quack,
On 04/11/2016 05:38 PM, Barak Korren wrote:
Well, what kind of hand is needed?
Help about the VM, you replied to this part (which unfortunately began
off-list, my bad), thanks.
The other part is tracking the features you need, to see if upgrading
Foreman and using the work Misc pointed at could be a working solution.
Because if an important feature is missing, then this path will not
happen now.
And then if it is a possible path, are you all willing to work on this
migration?
I remain unconvinced about the benefits of using Ansible here as
oppsed to the downsides of maintaining two CM systems in parallel.
I only viewed Mailman as a proof of concept. I agree maintaining both
systems sux. So that's why I'm talking about a possible migration. I
guess if it fails then we'll be back to reintegrating MailMan in the
current system and this is not that horrible. If it works we can work on
converting the rest with the knowledge we gained.
I'd be happy to help but clearly I would need some time and energy from
people in the project. Other OSAS members could also give a hand.
Yeah I'm the current owner of the ticket to upgrade it and
migrate it
to PHX, I will get to it eventually...
I've no idea about your workload, nor about the urgency of migrating
Mailman. I think this is important to check our availability and will to
invest on this.
I think doing this kind of work will benefit us as well as others,
it
should not be too much trouble imo.
Consider sending a rough patch to Gerrit, we can help and lead you from=
there.
Probably. Nevertheless it seems most projects OSAS are in touch with are
getting out of Puppet and I myself in other projects decided not to go
into this solution after some comparison and XP collection. So you may
understand I'd like to invest my time in something not totally
ephemeral. But if this migration is rejected or postponed, I will.
Eyal suggested using Ansible right now in a one-off fashion to get
the
Mailman server up. I don't particularity like that idea beucase it
seems to me it would make us incur some technical debt we will not pay
quickly. I'd rather pay it upfront. But I can understand if we want to
take such short cuts it the interest of getting Mailman out of some
bad state it is currently it. I'm not sure what is the situation with
it right now.
I'm new here :-), neither do I.
Regards.
--2CJSCa5kfB0ILu2JVP8i3TauuEkNCqE1m
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3:52 p.m.
Top posting to summarize things:
I'm OK with doing a 'POC' of using Ansible with mailman 3 in order to move
forward with this migration and release linode server which we pay money
for it
on a regular basis while we could use this for other usage.
This is what I suggest:
1. Create a VM in PHX called 'mail.phx.ovirt.org' - anyone from the team
can do it - if no one is doing it by the end of this week, I'll do it.
2. You should get access to that VM (please send you ssh public key to
infra list so we can add you and you'll get access to the VM).
3. Using the Ansible playbook to install the new service (hyperkitty) on
the new VM.
4. Documenting the current configuration we have on lists.ovirt.org
(existing mailman) and applying it to the new server. ( adapting the
Ansible playbook to include our configuration )
5. Pushing the Ansible code into a repo (we might need to create a new git
repo for it)
6. Migrating the server ( with a rollback option )
Up until now this didn't include managing Ansible via foreman and only
refers to migrating existing mailman to new server using Ansible.
The second part is more tricky:
1. Install new foreman VM on PHX ( that's a pending task we need prioritze
regarless of the mailman migration and we'll do it soon after jenkins
migrated )
2. Check if its possible manage Ansible via foreman or what does it mean to
do it
3. If we'll see that its not correlate to how we manage the infra right now
and takes a big toll on management, we will decide the POC is a fail and we
will need to write puppet classes to the new installed mailman.
As you can understand this approach has a "risk" of doing some duplicate
work, but I think its the best way to go because it will allow us to:
- Migrate the quickest way, saving money on hosting we don't need
- Testing Ansible support, which is something we can't ignore, as we see
more and more Ansible adoption and I believe we should evaluate it.
- We will be able to open bugs to foreman if we'll hit any issues which
is blocking us
- If we will end up writing puppet manifest, we would have not wasted
too much time on Ansible since most of the code is already available.
Lets move forward with this.
Eyal.
On Mon, Apr 11, 2016 at 12:36 PM, Marc Dequènes (Duck) <duck(a)redhat.com>
wrote:
Quack,
On 04/11/2016 05:38 PM, Barak Korren wrote:
> Well, what kind of hand is needed?
Help about the VM, you replied to this part (which unfortunately began
off-list, my bad), thanks.
The other part is tracking the features you need, to see if upgrading
Foreman and using the work Misc pointed at could be a working solution.
Because if an important feature is missing, then this path will not
happen now.
And then if it is a possible path, are you all willing to work on this
migration?
> I remain unconvinced about the benefits of using Ansible here as
> oppsed to the downsides of maintaining two CM systems in parallel.
I only viewed Mailman as a proof of concept. I agree maintaining both
systems sux. So that's why I'm talking about a possible migration. I
guess if it fails then we'll be back to reintegrating MailMan in the
current system and this is not that horrible. If it works we can work on
converting the rest with the knowledge we gained.
I'd be happy to help but clearly I would need some time and energy from
people in the project. Other OSAS members could also give a hand.
> Yeah I'm the current owner of the ticket to upgrade it and migrate it
> to PHX, I will get to it eventually...
I've no idea about your workload, nor about the urgency of migrating
Mailman. I think this is important to check our availability and will to
invest on this.
> I think doing this kind of work will benefit us as well as others, it
> should not be too much trouble imo.
> Consider sending a rough patch to Gerrit, we can help and lead you from
there.
Probably. Nevertheless it seems most projects OSAS are in touch with are
getting out of Puppet and I myself in other projects decided not to go
into this solution after some comparison and XP collection. So you may
understand I'd like to invest my time in something not totally
ephemeral. But if this migration is rejected or postponed, I will.
> Eyal suggested using Ansible right now in a one-off fashion to get the
> Mailman server up. I don't particularity like that idea beucase it
> seems to me it would make us incur some technical debt we will not pay
> quickly. I'd rather pay it upfront. But I can understand if we want to
> take such short cuts it the interest of getting Mailman out of some
> bad state it is currently it. I'm not sure what is the situation with
> it right now.
I'm new here :-), neither do I.
Regards.
--
Eyal Edri
Associate Manager
RHEV DevOps
EMEA ENG Virtualization R&D
Red Hat Israel
phone: +972-9-7692018
irc: eedri (on #tlv #rhev-dev #rhev-integ)
5:52 p.m.
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Pg==
----_com.boxer.email_1057195513138980--
6 p.m.
Hello David, All.
Maybe it makes sense to rereview foreman alternatives for future... Tower
might be a good choice, but not open sourced yet and no plans for that.
Also using puppet from it needs to be reviewed.
Anton.
On Tue, Apr 12, 2016 at 5:52 PM, David Caro Estevez <dcaroest(a)redhat.com>
wrote:
I had a small chat with dlobato, it seems that the Foreman-ansible
integration is halted because it potentially conflicts/collides with tower,
but that if we publicly request it as project we might get it unlocked.
David Caro
El 12/4/2016 15:52, Eyal Edri <eedri(a)redhat.com> escribió:
Top posting to summarize things:
I'm OK with doing a 'POC' of using Ansible with mailman 3 in order to move
forward with this migration and release linode server which we pay money
for it
on a regular basis while we could use this for other usage.
This is what I suggest:
1. Create a VM in PHX called 'mail.phx.ovirt.org' - anyone from the team
can do it - if no one is doing it by the end of this week, I'll do it.
2. You should get access to that VM (please send you ssh public key to
infra list so we can add you and you'll get access to the VM).
3. Using the Ansible playbook to install the new service (hyperkitty) on
the new VM.
4. Documenting the current configuration we have on lists.ovirt.org
(existing mailman) and applying it to the new server. ( adapting the
Ansible playbook to include our configuration )
5. Pushing the Ansible code into a repo (we might need to create a new git
repo for it)
6. Migrating the server ( with a rollback option )
Up until now this didn't include managing Ansible via foreman and only
refers to migrating existing mailman to new server using Ansible.
The second part is more tricky:
1. Install new foreman VM on PHX ( that's a pending task we need prioritze
regarless of the mailman migration and we'll do it soon after jenkins
migrated )
2. Check if its possible manage Ansible via foreman or what does it mean
to do it
3. If we'll see that its not correlate to how we manage the infra right
now and takes a big toll on management, we will decide the POC is a fail
and we will need to write puppet classes to the new installed mailman.
As you can understand this approach has a "risk" of doing some duplicate
work, but I think its the best way to go because it will allow us to:
- Migrate the quickest way, saving money on hosting we don't need
- Testing Ansible support, which is something we can't ignore, as we
see more and more Ansible adoption and I believe we should evaluate it.
- We will be able to open bugs to foreman if we'll hit any issues
which is blocking us
- If we will end up writing puppet manifest, we would have not wasted
too much time on Ansible since most of the code is already available.
Lets move forward with this.
Eyal.
On Mon, Apr 11, 2016 at 12:36 PM, Marc Dequènes (Duck) <duck(a)redhat.com>
wrote:
> Quack,
>
> On 04/11/2016 05:38 PM, Barak Korren wrote:
>
> > Well, what kind of hand is needed?
>
> Help about the VM, you replied to this part (which unfortunately began
> off-list, my bad), thanks.
>
> The other part is tracking the features you need, to see if upgrading
> Foreman and using the work Misc pointed at could be a working solution.
> Because if an important feature is missing, then this path will not
> happen now.
>
> And then if it is a possible path, are you all willing to work on this
> migration?
>
> > I remain unconvinced about the benefits of using Ansible here as
> > oppsed to the downsides of maintaining two CM systems in parallel.
>
> I only viewed Mailman as a proof of concept. I agree maintaining both
> systems sux. So that's why I'm talking about a possible migration. I
> guess if it fails then we'll be back to reintegrating MailMan in the
> current system and this is not that horrible. If it works we can work on
> converting the rest with the knowledge we gained.
>
> I'd be happy to help but clearly I would need some time and energy from
> people in the project. Other OSAS members could also give a hand.
>
> > Yeah I'm the current owner of the ticket to upgrade it and migrate it
> > to PHX, I will get to it eventually...
>
> I've no idea about your workload, nor about the urgency of migrating
> Mailman. I think this is important to check our availability and will to
> invest on this.
>
> > I think doing this kind of work will benefit us as well as others, it
> > should not be too much trouble imo.
> > Consider sending a rough patch to Gerrit, we can help and lead you from
> there.
>
> Probably. Nevertheless it seems most projects OSAS are in touch with are
> getting out of Puppet and I myself in other projects decided not to go
> into this solution after some comparison and XP collection. So you may
> understand I'd like to invest my time in something not totally
> ephemeral. But if this migration is rejected or postponed, I will.
>
> > Eyal suggested using Ansible right now in a one-off fashion to get the
> > Mailman server up. I don't particularity like that idea beucase it
> > seems to me it would make us incur some technical debt we will not pay
> > quickly. I'd rather pay it upfront. But I can understand if we want to
> > take such short cuts it the interest of getting Mailman out of some
> > bad state it is currently it. I'm not sure what is the situation with
> > it right now.
>
> I'm new here :-), neither do I.
>
> Regards.
>
>
--
Eyal Edri
Associate Manager
RHEV DevOps
EMEA ENG Virtualization R&D
Red Hat Israel
phone: +972-9-7692018
irc: eedri (on #tlv #rhev-dev #rhev-integ)
_______________________________________________
Infra mailing list
Infra(a)ovirt.org
http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/infra
--
Anton Marchukov
Senior Software Engineer - RHEV CI - Red Hat
9:59 p.m.
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7:51 p.m.
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
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Le dimanche 03 avril 2016 =C3=A0 10:42 +0300, Barak Korren a =C3=A9crit :
On 3 April 2016 at 10:21, Eyal Edri <eedri(a)redhat.com> wrote:
> I'd like to ask the team what do you think on $subject, in terms of pro=
s
&
> cons.
>
> As you all know we have been using puppet to manage our production infr=
a
> (user access, server configuration,etc... ).
>
> Recently we started looking into migrating our mailman instance into ne=
w
> hyper-kitty instance to run on the oVirt DC in PHX.
> It seems that there is no true puppet classes available to install/mana=
ge
> mailman3 but there is an Ansible playbook used / written by
fedora to d=
eploy
> their instance.
> So the question is should we start using/supporting Ansible as another =
tool
> to manage our infra and leverage existing playbooks out there to
reduce=
work
> on migration of new services?
> I'm not suggesting to migrate all puppet code into Ansible, but to allo=
w
> using Ansible when it make sense.
>
> Here is what I had in mind with regards to pro/cons:
> Pros
>
> Saving time writing puppet classes for services (if Ansible playbook ex=
ists)
> Bringing in new infra members which are interested in Ansbile
(maybe pu=
blish
> the team in the relevant communities)
>
>
> Cons:
>
> Another tool to support/maintain
> No real support to manage in foreman as we do for puppet (for sure not =
in
> our old version)
>
>
>
> I'd love to hear your thoughts about it.
>
=20
As I've already stated elsewhere Ansible is interesting for a number
of reasons, but a dual-tool scenario will not be welcome IMO.
=20
There is also a lage question of the possibility of replacing Puppet
with Ansible. Puppet is a continues configuration-management system
that monitors servers for configuration drift and repairs it
(deploying missing components in the process), to do that it supports
a declarative language and a master/slave-agent architecture.
The common Ansible usage scenario OTOH seems to be AFAIK a
developer/op launching a deployment task from his laptop. For that
Ansible supports a more imperative syntax and an SSH-based agent-less
architecture.
=20
IMO, for long-running on-premise infrastructure (Not ad-hoc in "the
cloud") which is what oVirt has and what what it targets, the drift
monitoring approach is more suitable.
=20
Now, I've hared that that Ansible could also be deployed with agents
and a central server (Tower? Foreman? something else?), but I'm not
sure how mature that deployment scenario is right now, nor wither
existing Ansible code fits that scenario.
So in my case, I do prefer the configuration drift stuff, but I just use
cron to make it converge if it drift with ansible.=20
Also, while I like the whole concept of configuration converging,
servers usually do not go out of convergence by themself, so if the
sysadmins do not change it, there isn't less pressure to make it
converge.
So far, what i do is that each push a on specific server trigger a
ansible run, restricted to the server that should be impacted. This is
either done with ssh (for manageiq.org), or using saltstack bus (for
gluster.org, historical reason), or I also do have cron + local run of
ansible (for theopensourceway.org).
So while most people likely use it to deploy from laptop, that's kinda
not how I envision, even in the cloud.
--=20
Michael Scherer
Sysadmin, Community Infrastructure and Platform, OSAS
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10:59 a.m.
Hello All.
I did not follow the recent Ansible developments, but at the time when I
researched it looked like a fancy SSH playbook library (a "better" fabric)
rather than "configuration management" system. This is not always bad
depending on what we want.
1. The strongest benefit of the Ansible is that it is easy to start using
it for anybody knowing Python, same way as fabric it is essentially SSH
client with imperative Python code that sequentially execute the actions.
They claim the concept of idempotence, but it is not desired state system
like Puppet, so instead of declaring a desired state and letting the
computer do the magic, you just list the steps to execute it imperatively
and if done right several runs won't break anything due to idempotence.
2. Also it is push approach and uses SSH so unless we want to execute it
from personal laptops as with fabric we will have to have a central server
with root SSH access to all our Ansible-managed servers where we can
execute it. There were orchestration tools such as Tower, but they were not
open source and looks like are not open source yet. Maybe there is
something other I am not aware about, please let me know.
Given those two items I really not sure we can use Puppet and Ansible
systems together as configuration management tools. The only ways to use
them together that I see are:
1. Use Ansible as a fabric replacement - to run things ad hoc (e.g. running
yum upgrade openssl) This does not work for mailman3 as it will be
"unpuppetized" in our terms.
2. Use Ansible only on part of the hosts. This works for mailman3, but for
us those host will leave as "unpuppetized" again plus we have to come up
with infra to support those hosts deployment due to luck of foreman
support. In addition we have to develop a way to transfer our users (puppet
classes + hiera now) to those servers that complicates deployment even more.
However it is not all or nothing problem, so the short term solution I
would propose and agree with:
It is ok to use Ansible for a limited set of hosts because it is easier for
people to learn and use it and hence - contribute deployment instructions
to us. But I would treat those hosts as "unpuppetized" on our side. The
motivation for that is that well, we do have a bunch of unpuppetized hosts
and obviously puppetizing everything is not a one day effort deal. Myabe it
should not block PHX migration. If somebody wants to use Ansible instead of
manually configuring hosts over SSH it is great. The host is still
unpuppetzied, but same way we have deployment instructions as a playbook in
SCM. And to get our users on the host we can use foreman + puppet infra
classes the same way we do for manually installed servers. So the
requirement for PHX migration than will be relaxed: deployment should be
reproducible + the host should support our infra tools such as foreman and
user classes.
Anton.
--
Anton Marchukov
Senior Software Engineer - RHEV CI - Red Hat
1:59 p.m.
OK,
So if we agree Ansible can't replace Puppet or live side by side Puppet as
CM tool for oVirt services,
We can still leverage existing Ansible playbook to deploy a service (like
mailman3) single time and then when its deployed with all the relevant
basic configuration,
It might be easier to prepare Puppet manifests for it, using existing conf
we have to adapting it as needed.
On Sun, Apr 3, 2016 at 11:59 AM, Anton Marchukov <amarchuk(a)redhat.com>
wrote:
Hello All.
I did not follow the recent Ansible developments, but at the time when I
researched it looked like a fancy SSH playbook library (a "better" fabric)
rather than "configuration management" system. This is not always bad
depending on what we want.
1. The strongest benefit of the Ansible is that it is easy to start using
it for anybody knowing Python, same way as fabric it is essentially SSH
client with imperative Python code that sequentially execute the actions.
They claim the concept of idempotence, but it is not desired state system
like Puppet, so instead of declaring a desired state and letting the
computer do the magic, you just list the steps to execute it imperatively
and if done right several runs won't break anything due to idempotence.
2. Also it is push approach and uses SSH so unless we want to execute it
from personal laptops as with fabric we will have to have a central server
with root SSH access to all our Ansible-managed servers where we can
execute it. There were orchestration tools such as Tower, but they were not
open source and looks like are not open source yet. Maybe there is
something other I am not aware about, please let me know.
Given those two items I really not sure we can use Puppet and Ansible
systems together as configuration management tools. The only ways to use
them together that I see are:
1. Use Ansible as a fabric replacement - to run things ad hoc (e.g.
running yum upgrade openssl) This does not work for mailman3 as it will be
"unpuppetized" in our terms.
2. Use Ansible only on part of the hosts. This works for mailman3, but for
us those host will leave as "unpuppetized" again plus we have to come up
with infra to support those hosts deployment due to luck of foreman
support. In addition we have to develop a way to transfer our users (puppet
classes + hiera now) to those servers that complicates deployment even more.
However it is not all or nothing problem, so the short term solution I
would propose and agree with:
It is ok to use Ansible for a limited set of hosts because it is easier
for people to learn and use it and hence - contribute deployment
instructions to us. But I would treat those hosts as "unpuppetized" on our
side. The motivation for that is that well, we do have a bunch of
unpuppetized hosts and obviously puppetizing everything is not a one day
effort deal. Myabe it should not block PHX migration. If somebody wants to
use Ansible instead of manually configuring hosts over SSH it is great. The
host is still unpuppetzied, but same way we have deployment instructions as
a playbook in SCM. And to get our users on the host we can use foreman +
puppet infra classes the same way we do for manually installed servers. So
the requirement for PHX migration than will be relaxed: deployment should
be reproducible + the host should support our infra tools such as foreman
and user classes.
Anton.
--
Anton Marchukov
Senior Software Engineer - RHEV CI - Red Hat
--
Eyal Edri
Associate Manager
RHEV DevOps
EMEA ENG Virtualization R&D
Red Hat Israel
phone: +972-9-7692018
irc: eedri (on #tlv #rhev-dev #rhev-integ)
4:04 a.m.
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Quack,
On 04/03/2016 04:21 PM, Eyal Edri wrote:
* Saving time writing puppet classes for services (if Ansible
playboo=
k
exists)
don't know your needs well, but Misc has been building many classes
shared among several other community projects, and I've been told we
have several experienced sysadmin to help too.
* Bringing in new infra members which are interested in Ansbile
(mayb=
e
publish the team in the relevant communities)
There's many classes which really are not project-specific. Each project
has a website, wants user accounts, Jenkins is quite common too=85 So
there's no reason not to shared the roles and publish them publicly.
Sensitive stuff can be split in another repository, or use a Vault
(encrypted config).
Cons:
=20
* Another tool to support/maintain
You can use this as a way to experiment with this new tool. If you ever
wish to switch, OSAS will help you do so.
* No real support to manage in foreman as we do for puppet (for
sure
not in our old version)
I heard in another discussion it was coming, but no date was raised.
Regards.
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2989
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16 comments
8 participants
participants (8)
-
Anton Marchukov -
Barak Korren -
David Caro Estevez -
Eyal Edri -
Marc Dequènes (Duck) -
Michael Scherer -
Michael Scherer -
Nadav Goldin