[DISCUSSION] oVirt Weekly Sync Goals and Future.
This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------030803020106080807060405 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, In my opinion the current format can be replaced by a etherpad update that is sent as a newsletter every week. The current format doesn't add a lot of value to the project work and doesn't create a real sync on the ongoing topics. No decisions are done today there as well. What do you think should be the goal of the weekly meeting? How can we improve it? Is a newsletter a good enough update? Thanks! -- Yaniv Dary Technical Product Manager Red Hat Israel Ltd. 34 Jerusalem Road Building A, 4th floor Ra'anana, Israel 4350109 Tel : +972 (9) 7692306 8272306 Email: ydary@redhat.com IRC : ydary --------------030803020106080807060405 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <html> <head> <meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"> </head> <body bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000"> <font face="monospace">Hi,<br> In my opinion the current format can be replaced by a etherpad update that is sent as a newsletter every week. The current format doesn't add a lot of value to the project work and doesn't create a real sync on the ongoing topics. No decisions are done today there as well.<br> <br> What do you think should be the goal of the weekly meeting? How can we improve it? Is a newsletter a good enough update?<br> <br> <br> Thanks!<br> </font> <pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">-- Yaniv Dary Technical Product Manager Red Hat Israel Ltd. 34 Jerusalem Road Building A, 4th floor Ra'anana, Israel 4350109 Tel : +972 (9) 7692306 8272306 Email: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:ydary@redhat.com">ydary@redhat.com</a> IRC : ydary</pre> </body> </html> --------------030803020106080807060405--
Il 01/04/2015 17:28, Yaniv Dary ha scritto:
Hi, In my opinion the current format can be replaced by a etherpad update that is sent as a newsletter every week. The current format doesn't add a lot of value to the project work and doesn't create a real sync on the ongoing topics. No decisions are done today there as well.
What do you think should be the goal of the weekly meeting? How can we improve it? Is a newsletter a good enough update?
I think a newsletter can replace the current sync format.
Thanks!
-- Yaniv Dary Technical Product Manager Red Hat Israel Ltd. 34 Jerusalem Road Building A, 4th floor Ra'anana, Israel 4350109
Tel : +972 (9) 7692306 8272306 Email: ydary@redhat.com IRC : ydary
_______________________________________________ Users mailing list Users@ovirt.org http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/users
-- Sandro Bonazzola Better technology. Faster innovation. Powered by community collaboration. See how it works at redhat.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sandro Bonazzola" <sbonazzo@redhat.com> To: users@ovirt.org Sent: Thursday, April 2, 2015 2:46:42 AM Subject: Re: [ovirt-users] [DISCUSSION] oVirt Weekly Sync Goals and Future.
Il 01/04/2015 17:28, Yaniv Dary ha scritto:
Hi, In my opinion the current format can be replaced by a etherpad update that is sent as a newsletter every week. The current format doesn't add a lot of value to the project work and doesn't create a real sync on the ongoing topics. No decisions are done today there as well.
What do you think should be the goal of the weekly meeting? How can we improve it? Is a newsletter a good enough update?
I think a newsletter can replace the current sync format.
[snip] Etherpad will unfortunately not work, nor any tool that is available to Red Hat-only community members. Any medium we evaluate has to be publicly available, or it is of little use to the oVirt community. Mailing lists can work, but we have to get around the problem of "missed" threads. The very fact that this thread went answered by just one person in the six days it has been live is evidence that threads on high-traffic mailing lists can get missed. Or consciously ignored. Encouraging people to attend a real-time synchronous meeting with a regular cadence can avoid that problem. I am not set on what the format/structure of such a public meeting should be, but we need to think about: * What do we want to achieve? * What decisions are we going to make? * What is the role of the attendees? * Who gets what out of the meeting? One way to conduct such meetings could be the stakeholder/observer model from agile development meetings, otherwise known as "the chicken and the pig" model[1]. This would essentially be a variation of what we do know, with statuses given by stakeholders and questions reserved at the end for observers and participants.But people can at anytime ask to be upgraded to stakeholder status for that meeting. I think that curating weekly meetings and saying "here are the issues that will be discussed" and keeping those issues interesting could be a way to go. Like "what new features *should* be added to 3.6?" or "how *can* we position/improve ourselves against X?" Peace, BKP [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Chicken_and_the_Pig -- Brian Proffitt Community Liaison oVirt Open Source and Standards, Red Hat - http://community.redhat.com Phone: +1 574 383 9BKP IRC: bkp @ OFTC
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Proffitt" <bproffit@redhat.com> To: users@ovirt.org Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2015 6:24:56 PM Subject: Re: [ovirt-users] [DISCUSSION] oVirt Weekly Sync Goals and Future.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sandro Bonazzola" <sbonazzo@redhat.com> To: users@ovirt.org Sent: Thursday, April 2, 2015 2:46:42 AM Subject: Re: [ovirt-users] [DISCUSSION] oVirt Weekly Sync Goals and Future.
Il 01/04/2015 17:28, Yaniv Dary ha scritto:
Hi, In my opinion the current format can be replaced by a etherpad update that is sent as a newsletter every week. The current format doesn't add a lot of value to the project work and doesn't create a real sync on the ongoing topics. No decisions are done today there as well.
What do you think should be the goal of the weekly meeting? How can we improve it? Is a newsletter a good enough update?
I think a newsletter can replace the current sync format.
[snip]
Etherpad will unfortunately not work, nor any tool that is available to Red Hat-only community members. Any medium we evaluate has to be publicly available, or it is of little use to the oVirt community.
http://lists.ovirt.org/pipermail/users/2014-April/023399.html :-)
Mailing lists can work, but we have to get around the problem of "missed" threads. The very fact that this thread went answered by just one person in the six days it has been live is evidence that threads on high-traffic mailing lists can get missed. Or consciously ignored. Encouraging people to attend a real-time synchronous meeting with a regular cadence can avoid that problem.
Projects that get larger often split their mailing lists along the way. The real problem will be to split at the right place - to define the role of each list in a way that will make it very clear to people that want to post, what's the best list to use. This isn't easy at all. OTOH, if we have, say, discussion@, and keep the existing users@ and devel@, and someone posts to users@, and I think it should attract people on discussion@, it's much easier to move the discussion there, instead of starting to think who specifically I might want to Cc so that they notice.
I am not set on what the format/structure of such a public meeting should be, but we need to think about:
* What do we want to achieve? * What decisions are we going to make? * What is the role of the attendees? * Who gets what out of the meeting?
One way to conduct such meetings could be the stakeholder/observer model from agile development meetings, otherwise known as "the chicken and the pig" model[1]. This would essentially be a variation of what we do know, with statuses given by stakeholders and questions reserved at the end for observers and participants.But people can at anytime ask to be upgraded to stakeholder status for that meeting.
I think that curating weekly meetings and saying "here are the issues that will be discussed" and keeping those issues interesting could be a way to go. Like "what new features *should* be added to 3.6?" or "how *can* we position/improve ourselves against X?"
Peace, BKP
[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Chicken_and_the_Pig
-- Brian Proffitt
Community Liaison oVirt Open Source and Standards, Red Hat - http://community.redhat.com Phone: +1 574 383 9BKP IRC: bkp @ OFTC _______________________________________________ Users mailing list Users@ovirt.org http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/users
-- Didi
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sandro Bonazzola" <sbonazzo@redhat.com> To: users@ovirt.org Sent: Thursday, April 2, 2015 2:46:42 AM Subject: Re: [ovirt-users] [DISCUSSION] oVirt Weekly Sync Goals and Future.
Il 01/04/2015 17:28, Yaniv Dary ha scritto:
Hi, In my opinion the current format can be replaced by a etherpad update that is sent as a newsletter every week. The current format doesn't add a lot of value to the project work and doesn't create a real sync on the ongoing topics. No decisions are done today there as well.
What do you think should be the goal of the weekly meeting? How can we improve it? Is a newsletter a good enough update?
I think a newsletter can replace the current sync format.
[snip]
Etherpad will unfortunately not work, nor any tool that is available to Red Hat-only community members. Any medium we evaluate has to be publicly available, or it is of little use to the oVirt community.
http://lists.ovirt.org/pipermail/users/2014-April/023399.html
:-)
Mailing lists can work, but we have to get around the problem of "missed" threads. The very fact that this thread went answered by just one person in the six days it has been live is evidence that threads on high-traffic mailing lists can get missed. Or consciously ignored. Encouraging people to attend a real-time synchronous meeting with a regular cadence can avoid that problem.
Projects that get larger often split their mailing lists along the way.
The real problem will be to split at the right place - to define the role of each list in a way that will make it very clear to people that want to post, what's the best list to use. This isn't easy at all. OTOH, if we have, say, discussion@, and keep the existing users@ and devel@, and someone posts to users@, and I think it should attract people on discussion@, it's much easier to move the discussion there, instead of starting to think who specifically I might want to Cc so that they notice.
[snip] -- Didi
Adding a new mailing list is possible, though I think that the parsing of which kind of discussion goes on what list might ultimately lead to confusion. Plus, there is a very real notion that the more "channels" people have to watch, the more chance there is that something will get missed. That's part of why we consolidated the various development-oriented mailing lists into [devel] last year in the first place. BKP -- Brian Proffitt Community Liaison oVirt Open Source and Standards, Red Hat - http://community.redhat.com Phone: +1 574 383 9BKP IRC: bkp @ OFTC
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Proffitt" <bproffit@redhat.com> To: users@ovirt.org Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2015 11:24:56 AM Subject: Re: [ovirt-users] [DISCUSSION] oVirt Weekly Sync Goals and Future.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sandro Bonazzola" <sbonazzo@redhat.com> To: users@ovirt.org Sent: Thursday, April 2, 2015 2:46:42 AM Subject: Re: [ovirt-users] [DISCUSSION] oVirt Weekly Sync Goals and Future.
Il 01/04/2015 17:28, Yaniv Dary ha scritto:
Hi, In my opinion the current format can be replaced by a etherpad update that is sent as a newsletter every week. The current format doesn't add a lot of value to the project work and doesn't create a real sync on the ongoing topics. No decisions are done today there as well.
What do you think should be the goal of the weekly meeting? How can we improve it? Is a newsletter a good enough update?
I think a newsletter can replace the current sync format.
[snip] I have been thinking about this over the weekend, and I want to get my two cents in for a possible solution before the meeting tomorrow. Ironically, I will be unable to attend the weekly sync on April 15 due to a doctor's appointment for my daughter... but this in no way reflects that I am not taking the weekly meetings seriously. I agree that in their current format, the weekly meetings can best be served by a newsletter format. An Etherpad could work, too, though I am concerned that it may fall out of date, since such rolling documents can get stale and a weekly newsletter would be deadline-oriented and thus less likely to be missed or ignored by contributors. You will note that I stated "in their current format." I still firmly believe that it is imperative we have some kind of real-time public meeting for any interested members of the oVirt community. We often lament that there is a lack of "outside" contributions into oVirt. Closing the door on one way for users and developers to reach the rest of the oVirt community is a step away from being open. Mailing lists are not always enough. But if the meeting has turned into a weekly status report, then perhaps that is not serving the broader community as well, either. What I suggest, then, is a series of "office hours," where a rotating set of oVirt team members will commit to being on IRC to answer questions and be generally available. This could be done by one or two people, a few times a week/once a week, and not even a whole hour. Once a schedule is figured out, it would be posted and people would be openly encouraged to participate. This would be an open session on IRC... support questions, contributor inquiries, and just general commentary. It may be quiet sometimes, and sometimes it could be contentious, but the important thing would be that the community would know the office hours are there and they can use the time to address their questions directly to the oVirt team. This would reduce the requirement to attend a weekly IRC meeting by many people, but, if spread out a bit, will actually increase formal presence on the IRC channel. I hope this suggestion is something that can help. I recognize that we all can use an hour of our lives back from yet-another-meeting, but the importance of real-time availability cannot be understated. Peace, Brian -- Brian Proffitt Community Liaison oVirt Open Source and Standards, Red Hat - http://community.redhat.com Phone: +1 574 383 9BKP IRC: bkp @ OFTC
participants (4)
-
Brian Proffitt -
Sandro Bonazzola -
Yaniv Dary -
Yedidyah Bar David