Hi all, Red Hat Virtualization (RHV) recently entered maintenance phase[1], and the RHV development team is gradually shifting its efforts over to other projects. We are still around, subscribed to the mailing lists, answering questions and help as needed. There is a strong trend in the industry towards containers and microservices, and Red Hat's part of that is OpenShift. People that want to use OpenShift and still need virtualization, until they transition their workloads to run in containers, would best be served by using OpenShift Virtualization. Following this, if you are an oVirt user, you might want to try OKD Virtualization [2], the Community Distribution of Kubernetes that powers Red Hat OpenShift, and Forklift [3], a migration tool that facilitates the transition of VM workloads from oVirt to OKD Virtualization. We worked hard over the last year or so on making sure the oVirt project will be able to sustain development even without much involvement from us - including moving most of the infrastructure from private systems that were funded by/for oVirt/RHV, elsewhere - code review from Gerrit to GitHub, and CI (Continuous Integration) from jenkins to GitHub/Copr/CentOS CBS. We see lots of activity in the community both trying and using oVirt, and helping each other, which is great! We also see some work done on basing oVirt on Rocky/Alma Linux, which is also great! We’ll be happy to help with this, where our specific expertise is needed. Ultimately, the future of oVirt lies in the hands of the community. If you, as a community member, use and like oVirt, and want to see it thrive, now is the best time to help with this! In particular, we welcome long-time, active members of this list to join the list moderation team. If you want to help with this, please contact me directly, or email ovirt-users at ovirt.org. I am posting this message to both lists - users and devel, separately - deliberately not cross-posting. If you are subscribed to both, and feel like replying, please choose the list that best matches the content of your reply. Thanks! :-) Best regards, [1] https://access.redhat.com/support/policy/updates/rhev [2] https://docs.okd.io/latest/virt/about-virt.html [3] https://www.konveyor.io/tools/forklift/ -- Didi
Hey Didi, thanks for the recap.I hope that soon I will have some free time and I can more actively involve in the next months. I would like to get some hints about the Ansible code. How do we test it ? Best Regards,Strahil Nikolov On Mon, Nov 14, 2022 at 9:14, Yedidyah Bar David<didi@redhat.com> wrote: Hi all, Red Hat Virtualization (RHV) recently entered maintenance phase[1], and the RHV development team is gradually shifting its efforts over to other projects. We are still around, subscribed to the mailing lists, answering questions and help as needed. There is a strong trend in the industry towards containers and microservices, and Red Hat's part of that is OpenShift. People that want to use OpenShift and still need virtualization, until they transition their workloads to run in containers, would best be served by using OpenShift Virtualization. Following this, if you are an oVirt user, you might want to try OKD Virtualization [2], the Community Distribution of Kubernetes that powers Red Hat OpenShift, and Forklift [3], a migration tool that facilitates the transition of VM workloads from oVirt to OKD Virtualization. We worked hard over the last year or so on making sure the oVirt project will be able to sustain development even without much involvement from us - including moving most of the infrastructure from private systems that were funded by/for oVirt/RHV, elsewhere - code review from Gerrit to GitHub, and CI (Continuous Integration) from jenkins to GitHub/Copr/CentOS CBS. We see lots of activity in the community both trying and using oVirt, and helping each other, which is great! We also see some work done on basing oVirt on Rocky/Alma Linux, which is also great! We’ll be happy to help with this, where our specific expertise is needed. Ultimately, the future of oVirt lies in the hands of the community. If you, as a community member, use and like oVirt, and want to see it thrive, now is the best time to help with this! In particular, we welcome long-time, active members of this list to join the list moderation team. If you want to help with this, please contact me directly, or email ovirt-users at ovirt.org. I am posting this message to both lists - users and devel, separately - deliberately not cross-posting. If you are subscribed to both, and feel like replying, please choose the list that best matches the content of your reply. Thanks! :-) Best regards, [1] https://access.redhat.com/support/policy/updates/rhev [2] https://docs.okd.io/latest/virt/about-virt.html [3] https://www.konveyor.io/tools/forklift/ -- Didi _______________________________________________ Users mailing list -- users@ovirt.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave@ovirt.org Privacy Statement: https://www.ovirt.org/privacy-policy.html oVirt Code of Conduct: https://www.ovirt.org/community/about/community-guidelines/ List Archives: https://lists.ovirt.org/archives/list/users@ovirt.org/message/HEKKBM6MZEKBEA...
On Mon, Nov 14, 2022 at 6:29 PM Strahil Nikolov <hunter86_bg@yahoo.com> wrote:
Hey Didi,
thanks for the recap. I hope that soon I will have some free time and I can more actively involve in the next months.
Thanks!
I would like to get some hints about the Ansible code. How do we test it ?
Do you refer to [1] (engine-initiated, mainly host-deploy) or [2] (most of the rest)? I do not think there is any "unit-testing" for any of them. Much of the code there is tested as part of [3] - host-deploy code is ran by all suites there, HE-deploy by the he-basic suite, and some of the other ansible code by the ansible suite. [3] used to run on our jenkins server, and so I could (and did) point people to successful runs there (e.g. if there was a question about content of some log file or whatever), but now we don't, anymore. It does still run routinely in systems internal to Red Hat. Anyone can run it manually - and if you try and run into problems, please report :-). Thanks and best regards, [1] https://github.com/oVirt/ovirt-engine/tree/master/packaging/ansible-runner-s... [2] https://github.com/oVirt/ovirt-ansible-collection/ [3] https://github.com/oVirt/ovirt-system-tests/
Best Regards, Strahil Nikolov
On Mon, Nov 14, 2022 at 9:14, Yedidyah Bar David <didi@redhat.com> wrote: Hi all,
Red Hat Virtualization (RHV) recently entered maintenance phase[1], and the RHV development team is gradually shifting its efforts over to other projects.
We are still around, subscribed to the mailing lists, answering questions and help as needed.
There is a strong trend in the industry towards containers and microservices, and Red Hat's part of that is OpenShift. People that want to use OpenShift and still need virtualization, until they transition their workloads to run in containers, would best be served by using OpenShift Virtualization. Following this, if you are an oVirt user, you might want to try OKD Virtualization [2], the Community Distribution of Kubernetes that powers Red Hat OpenShift, and Forklift [3], a migration tool that facilitates the transition of VM workloads from oVirt to OKD Virtualization.
We worked hard over the last year or so on making sure the oVirt project will be able to sustain development even without much involvement from us - including moving most of the infrastructure from private systems that were funded by/for oVirt/RHV, elsewhere - code review from Gerrit to GitHub, and CI (Continuous Integration) from jenkins to GitHub/Copr/CentOS CBS.
We see lots of activity in the community both trying and using oVirt, and helping each other, which is great!
We also see some work done on basing oVirt on Rocky/Alma Linux, which is also great! We’ll be happy to help with this, where our specific expertise is needed.
Ultimately, the future of oVirt lies in the hands of the community. If you, as a community member, use and like oVirt, and want to see it thrive, now is the best time to help with this!
In particular, we welcome long-time, active members of this list to join the list moderation team. If you want to help with this, please contact me directly, or email ovirt-users at ovirt.org.
I am posting this message to both lists - users and devel, separately - deliberately not cross-posting. If you are subscribed to both, and feel like replying, please choose the list that best matches the content of your reply. Thanks! :-)
Best regards,
[1] https://access.redhat.com/support/policy/updates/rhev
[2] https://docs.okd.io/latest/virt/about-virt.html
[3] https://www.konveyor.io/tools/forklift/ -- Didi _______________________________________________ Users mailing list -- users@ovirt.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave@ovirt.org Privacy Statement: https://www.ovirt.org/privacy-policy.html oVirt Code of Conduct: https://www.ovirt.org/community/about/community-guidelines/ List Archives: https://lists.ovirt.org/archives/list/users@ovirt.org/message/HEKKBM6MZEKBEA...
-- Didi
Hi Didi, thanks for keeping us updated. However, I'm concerned...
Ultimately, the future of oVirt lies in the hands of the community. If you, as a community member, use and like oVirt, and want to see it thrive, now is the best time to help with this!
I don't want to be rude, but this sounds to me like no developers have shown interest in keeping oVirt alive. Is this true? Is no other company actively developing oVirt anymore?
We worked hard over the last year or so on making sure the oVirt project will be able to sustain development even without much involvement from us - including moving most of the infrastructure from private systems that were funded by/for oVirt/RHV, elsewhere - code review from Gerrit to GitHub, and CI (Continuous Integration) from jenkins to GitHub/Copr/CentOS CBS.
I appreciate the effort to make the source code accessible. However, I'm also wondering: was any sort of governing organization established, so that development could actually take place when RedHat pulls the plug? The answer to this is probably related to my previous question, whether or not there are any non-RedHat developers involved. Ciao - Frank
Hello all, This is definitely a really sad new, but it is a natural consequence of rhv die and I don't know why redhat should continue to invest in ovirt. I believed that more professional developpers were involved in RHV project, beginning by big companies as oracle who provides downstream OLVM... Does it mean they are about to let their own commercial product die as well if they don't involve in the upstream ovirt project? I think as well about Chinese community that do love ovirt. Was redhat really the only one to develop ovirt? They made great job and this software is wonderfully mature after more of 10 years of development. Sorry to tell that not everybody is able to lead such a big project, someone may contribute to some part but we do need genius or professional developpers if we want ovirt to survive. Most of the job has been accomplished for the ovirt project we all know and I'm sure okd can't be in the next months or years the immediate ovirt replacement. So without developing new features, the main effort may be to maintain it by integrating new package versions like el9,wildfly and so on... Definitely a sad new... Le 14 nov. 2022 23:40, Frank Wall <fw@moov.de> a écrit : Hi Didi, thanks for keeping us updated. However, I'm concerned...
Ultimately, the future of oVirt lies in the hands of the community. If you, as a community member, use and like oVirt, and want to see it thrive, now is the best time to help with this!
I don't want to be rude, but this sounds to me like no developers have shown interest in keeping oVirt alive. Is this true? Is no other company actively developing oVirt anymore?
We worked hard over the last year or so on making sure the oVirt project will be able to sustain development even without much involvement from us - including moving most of the infrastructure from private systems that were funded by/for oVirt/RHV, elsewhere - code review from Gerrit to GitHub, and CI (Continuous Integration) from jenkins to GitHub/Copr/CentOS CBS.
I appreciate the effort to make the source code accessible. However, I'm also wondering: was any sort of governing organization established, so that development could actually take place when RedHat pulls the plug? The answer to this is probably related to my previous question, whether or not there are any non-RedHat developers involved. Ciao - Frank _______________________________________________ Users mailing list -- users@ovirt.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave@ovirt.org Privacy Statement: https://www.ovirt.org/privacy-policy.html oVirt Code of Conduct: https://www.ovirt.org/community/about/community-guidelines/ List Archives: https://lists.ovirt.org/archives/list/users@ovirt.org/message/5DQ3OLT3B5QALL...
Sad news. On 11/15/2022 9:44 AM, Nathanaël Blanchet via Users wrote:
Hello all, This is definitely a really sad new, but it is a natural consequence of rhv die and I don't know why redhat should continue to invest in ovirt. I believed that more professional developpers were involved in RHV project, beginning by big companies as oracle who provides downstream OLVM... Does it mean they are about to let their own commercial product die as well if they don't involve in the upstream ovirt project? I think as well about Chinese community that do love ovirt. Was redhat really the only one to develop ovirt? They made great job and this software is wonderfully mature after more of 10 years of development. Sorry to tell that not everybody is able to lead such a big project, someone may contribute to some part but we do need genius or professional developpers if we want ovirt to survive. Most of the job has been accomplished for the ovirt project we all know and I'm sure okd can't be in the next months or years the immediate ovirt replacement. So without developing new features, the main effort may be to maintain it by integrating new package versions like el9,wildfly and so on... Definitely a sad new...
Le 14 nov. 2022 23:40, Frank Wall <fw@moov.de> a écrit : Hi Didi,
thanks for keeping us updated. However, I'm concerned...
Ultimately, the future of oVirt lies in the hands of the community. If you, as a community member, use and like oVirt, and want to see it thrive, now is the best time to help with this!
I don't want to be rude, but this sounds to me like no developers have shown interest in keeping oVirt alive. Is this true? Is no other company actively developing oVirt anymore?
We worked hard over the last year or so on making sure the oVirt project will be able to sustain development even without much involvement from us - including moving most of the infrastructure from private systems that were funded by/for oVirt/RHV, elsewhere - code review from Gerrit to GitHub, and CI (Continuous Integration) from jenkins to GitHub/Copr/CentOS CBS.
I appreciate the effort to make the source code accessible. However, I'm also wondering: was any sort of governing organization established, so that development could actually take place when RedHat pulls the plug?
The answer to this is probably related to my previous question, whether or not there are any non-RedHat developers involved.
Ciao - Frank _______________________________________________ Users mailing list -- users@ovirt.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave@ovirt.org Privacy Statement: https://www.ovirt.org/privacy-policy.html oVirt Code of Conduct: https://www.ovirt.org/community/about/community-guidelines/ List Archives: https://lists.ovirt.org/archives/list/users@ovirt.org/message/5DQ3OLT3B5QALL...
_______________________________________________ Users mailing list --users@ovirt.org To unsubscribe send an email tousers-leave@ovirt.org Privacy Statement:https://www.ovirt.org/privacy-policy.html oVirt Code of Conduct:https://www.ovirt.org/community/about/community-guidelines/ List Archives:https://lists.ovirt.org/archives/list/users@ovirt.org/message/FJLPK72L3NQRR7...
Hello all, For anyone's wondering about oVirt's chances of ongoing development, this: https://github.com/oVirt/ovirt-engine/pulse/monthly is the current monthly stats (issues closed, commits made, number of contributors, etc.) on just the engine's GitHub repo, within the oVirt organization. (I.e. not VDSM, or the ansible scripts, etc. Those stats are available in their respective repos linked here: https://github.com/orgs/oVirt/repositories) As of this mail, the engine alone also has 228 forks on GitHub. (Which are not necessarily "forks" as in "We're creating our own version for the public", as they are personal repos that are used as staging areas for getting changes / commits pulled into the main project.) I highly doubt that all of those forks are solely Red Hat employees and their local working trees, so the project appears to be safe for now development wise, but if a RH person wants to clarify feel free to do so. A list of known non-RH contributors to compare to would be nice, as GitHub doesn't make that obvious. For those still worried, there's also been access requests for translation submissions right here on the user mailing list. (As of this mail, the most recent seems to have been on Oct 21: https://lists.ovirt.org/archives/list/users@ovirt.org/message/JJ4FLNKSSQN7PK... ). So there's definitely a healthy amount of interest in oVirt's future development. Like others in this thread however, I too would like to know if there is an overall management group / "public face" that has been settled on by the community, or if RH still has the final say over everything? If it's still the latter, are we to the point yet of needing to create such a group? Or is that planned and the oVirt project hasn't gotten to that stage yet? With regards to didi's request for mailing list moderators, I imagine there are others more qualified than myself for that task, that have also been here far longer than me, but I wouldn't mind helping if permitted. -Patrick Hibbs On Tue, 2022-11-15 at 07:44 +0000, Nathanaël Blanchet via Users wrote:
Hello all, This is definitely a really sad new, but it is a natural consequence of rhv die and I don't know why redhat should continue to invest in ovirt. I believed that more professional developpers were involved in RHV project, beginning by big companies as oracle who provides downstream OLVM... Does it mean they are about to let their own commercial product die as well if they don't involve in the upstream ovirt project? I think as well about Chinese community that do love ovirt. Was redhat really the only one to develop ovirt? They made great job and this software is wonderfully mature after more of 10 years of development. Sorry to tell that not everybody is able to lead such a big project, someone may contribute to some part but we do need genius or professional developpers if we want ovirt to survive. Most of the job has been accomplished for the ovirt project we all know and I'm sure okd can't be in the next months or years the immediate ovirt replacement. So without developing new features, the main effort may be to maintain it by integrating new package versions like el9,wildfly and so on... Definitely a sad new...
Le 14 nov. 2022 23:40, Frank Wall <fw@moov.de> a écrit : Hi Didi,
thanks for keeping us updated. However, I'm concerned...
Ultimately, the future of oVirt lies in the hands of the community. If you, as a community member, use and like oVirt, and want to see it thrive, now is the best time to help with this!
I don't want to be rude, but this sounds to me like no developers have shown interest in keeping oVirt alive. Is this true? Is no other company actively developing oVirt anymore?
We worked hard over the last year or so on making sure the oVirt project will be able to sustain development even without much involvement from us - including moving most of the infrastructure from private systems that were funded by/for oVirt/RHV, elsewhere - code review from Gerrit to GitHub, and CI (Continuous Integration) from jenkins to GitHub/Copr/CentOS CBS.
I appreciate the effort to make the source code accessible. However, I'm also wondering: was any sort of governing organization established, so that development could actually take place when RedHat pulls the plug?
The answer to this is probably related to my previous question, whether or not there are any non-RedHat developers involved.
Ciao - Frank _______________________________________________ Users mailing list -- users@ovirt.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave@ovirt.org Privacy Statement: https://www.ovirt.org/privacy-policy.html oVirt Code of Conduct: https://www.ovirt.org/community/about/community-guidelines/ List Archives: https://lists.ovirt.org/archives/list/users@ovirt.org/message/5DQ3OLT3B5QALL... _______________________________________________ Users mailing list -- users@ovirt.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave@ovirt.org Privacy Statement: https://www.ovirt.org/privacy-policy.html oVirt Code of Conduct: https://www.ovirt.org/community/about/community-guidelines/ List Archives: https://lists.ovirt.org/archives/list/users@ovirt.org/message/FJLPK72L3NQRR7...
Il giorno lun 14 nov 2022 alle ore 23:40 Frank Wall <fw@moov.de> ha scritto:
Hi Didi,
thanks for keeping us updated. However, I'm concerned...
Ultimately, the future of oVirt lies in the hands of the community. If you, as a community member, use and like oVirt, and want to see it thrive, now is the best time to help with this!
I don't want to be rude, but this sounds to me like no developers have shown interest in keeping oVirt alive. Is this true? Is no other company actively developing oVirt anymore?
I've contacted directly all the companies with oVirt downstreams I was aware of. I also contacted almost all the universities that asked for help in this mailing list. I ended up contacting the major RHEL derivatives distributions. So far nobody stepped in to take an active role on the oVirt project. I saw some patches coming from individual contributors here and there but no company investment so far.
We worked hard over the last year or so on making sure the oVirt project will be able to sustain development even without much involvement from us - including moving most of the infrastructure from private systems that were funded by/for oVirt/RHV, elsewhere - code review from Gerrit to GitHub, and CI (Continuous Integration) from jenkins to GitHub/Copr/CentOS CBS.
I appreciate the effort to make the source code accessible. However, I'm also wondering: was any sort of governing organization established, so that development could actually take place when RedHat pulls the plug?
Yes, oVirt has an open governance: https://www.ovirt.org/community/about/governance.html Right now in the oVirt board other than Red Hat there's a member of the Caltech university https://www.ovirt.org/community/about/board.html
The answer to this is probably related to my previous question, whether or not there are any non-RedHat developers involved.
Ciao - Frank _______________________________________________ Users mailing list -- users@ovirt.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave@ovirt.org Privacy Statement: https://www.ovirt.org/privacy-policy.html oVirt Code of Conduct: https://www.ovirt.org/community/about/community-guidelines/ List Archives: https://lists.ovirt.org/archives/list/users@ovirt.org/message/5DQ3OLT3B5QALL...
-- Sandro Bonazzola MANAGER, SOFTWARE ENGINEERING - Red Hat In-Vehicle OS Red Hat EMEA <https://www.redhat.com/> sbonazzo@redhat.com <https://www.redhat.com/> *Red Hat respects your work life balance. Therefore there is no need to answer this email out of your office hours.*
Hi, Sandro, What are plans for oVirt development and/or migrations for large users, for example Brussel Airport ?
On 15 Nov 2022, at 10:31, Sandro Bonazzola <sbonazzo@redhat.com> wrote:
Il giorno lun 14 nov 2022 alle ore 23:40 Frank Wall <fw@moov.de <mailto:fw@moov.de>> ha scritto: Hi Didi,
thanks for keeping us updated. However, I'm concerned...
Ultimately, the future of oVirt lies in the hands of the community. If you, as a community member, use and like oVirt, and want to see it thrive, now is the best time to help with this!
I don't want to be rude, but this sounds to me like no developers have shown interest in keeping oVirt alive. Is this true? Is no other company actively developing oVirt anymore?
I've contacted directly all the companies with oVirt downstreams I was aware of. I also contacted almost all the universities that asked for help in this mailing list. I ended up contacting the major RHEL derivatives distributions. So far nobody stepped in to take an active role on the oVirt project. I saw some patches coming from individual contributors here and there but no company investment so far.
We worked hard over the last year or so on making sure the oVirt project will be able to sustain development even without much involvement from us - including moving most of the infrastructure from private systems that were funded by/for oVirt/RHV, elsewhere - code review from Gerrit to GitHub, and CI (Continuous Integration) from jenkins to GitHub/Copr/CentOS CBS.
I appreciate the effort to make the source code accessible. However, I'm also wondering: was any sort of governing organization established, so that development could actually take place when RedHat pulls the plug?
Yes, oVirt has an open governance: https://www.ovirt.org/community/about/governance.html <https://www.ovirt.org/community/about/governance.html> Right now in the oVirt board other than Red Hat there's a member of the Caltech university https://www.ovirt.org/community/about/board.html <https://www.ovirt.org/community/about/board.html>
The answer to this is probably related to my previous question, whether or not there are any non-RedHat developers involved.
Ciao - Frank _______________________________________________ Users mailing list -- users@ovirt.org <mailto:users@ovirt.org> To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave@ovirt.org <mailto:users-leave@ovirt.org> Privacy Statement: https://www.ovirt.org/privacy-policy.html <https://www.ovirt.org/privacy-policy.html> oVirt Code of Conduct: https://www.ovirt.org/community/about/community-guidelines/ <https://www.ovirt.org/community/about/community-guidelines/> List Archives: https://lists.ovirt.org/archives/list/users@ovirt.org/message/5DQ3OLT3B5QALL... <https://lists.ovirt.org/archives/list/users@ovirt.org/message/5DQ3OLT3B5QALLFUK4OMKDYJEJXSYP7A/>
-- Sandro Bonazzola MANAGER, SOFTWARE ENGINEERING - Red Hat In-Vehicle OS Red Hat EMEA <https://www.redhat.com/> sbonazzo@redhat.com <mailto:sbonazzo@redhat.com> <https://www.redhat.com/> Red Hat respects your work life balance. Therefore there is no need to answer this email out of your office hours.
_______________________________________________ Users mailing list -- users@ovirt.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave@ovirt.org Privacy Statement: https://www.ovirt.org/privacy-policy.html oVirt Code of Conduct: https://www.ovirt.org/community/about/community-guidelines/ List Archives: https://lists.ovirt.org/archives/list/users@ovirt.org/message/IVCGZXVNOAFE44...
Il giorno gio 17 nov 2022 alle ore 11:38 Andrei Verovski < andreil1@starlett.lv> ha scritto:
Hi, Sandro,
What are plans for oVirt development and/or migrations for large users, for example Brussel Airport ?
It has been a while since the last time I got any update from Brussel Airport, it would be nice to hear from them. With my oVirt hat on, I would rather see large users keep using oVirt and eventually get someone assigned to help fixing the issue these large users see on their system, contributing back to the community also for those small users who don't have the resources for doing the same. So in terms of what the oVirt community plans, I think the answer is: keep using oVirt. That said, if the community is not going to do anything to keep the oVirt project healthy, I guess that at some point large users will have to consider moving to a different virtualization solution. They can follow Red Hat vision on this, migrating the loads that can be moved to containers to OKD (which is getting rebased on CentOS Stream 9 these days) and those that can't be migrated to OKD Virtualization. Or they can take a different direction and choose the replacement they like most. Here's the result of the latest survey <https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1eQcbSqC6JQ2mvbPUcD7S_0pZW8hy_De4PCwkBYrP6mY/viewanalytics> : [image: image.png] looks like the preferred alternatives are KubeVirt, VMWare and Proxmox. I still hope someone in the 82% staying with oVirt will start taking an active role in the project. -- Sandro Bonazzola MANAGER, SOFTWARE ENGINEERING - Red Hat In-Vehicle OS Red Hat EMEA <https://www.redhat.com/> sbonazzo@redhat.com <https://www.redhat.com/> *Red Hat respects your work life balance. Therefore there is no need to answer this email out of your office hours.*
I have some manpower im willing to throw at oVirt, but i somewhat need to know if what the community wants and what we want are in line. 1. We'd bring back spice and maybe qxl. We are already maintaining forks of the ovirt and RH kernels for this. We use ovirt currently for a lot of VDI solutions paired with nvidia grid. Not usable over VNC. 2. Hyperconverged storage is important. I'd suggest integrations with linstor. Seems well aligned with ovirt. Bringing back gluster is likely the wrong move. 3. oVirt desperately needs vxlan support. Ideally integrating with FRR on the backend so an ovirt node can just plug into an exiting EVPN VXLAN setup. 4. some things need cut from ovirt, namely hosted engine and maybe the grafana stuff. Not that these aren't nice to have, but hosted engine rarely actually works reliable in it's current state (compare mailing list complaints of hosted engine vs other issues) and the grafana stuff can be pushed into a sub project. 5. It needs to do containers. Doesn't need to be the behemoth of OKD, but something more along the lines of what k3s does, for now. These are the thing's i'd like to see done, and maybe also cut back some of the RHEL specific stuff to allow debian deployments (would massively help with userbase). Basically for the past year i've been tasked with figuring out if we are going to fork ovirt internally or move to OpenNebula. I prefer the ovirt option if the opportunity now exists to take things in another direction. On 2022-11-15 03:31, Sandro Bonazzola wrote:
Il giorno lun 14 nov 2022 alle ore 23:40 Frank Wall <fw@moov.de> ha scritto:
Hi Didi,
thanks for keeping us updated. However, I'm concerned...
Ultimately, the future of oVirt lies in the hands of the community. If you, as a community member, use and like oVirt, and want to see it thrive, now is the best time to help with this!
I don't want to be rude, but this sounds to me like no developers have shown interest in keeping oVirt alive. Is this true? Is no other company actively developing oVirt anymore?
I've contacted directly all the companies with oVirt downstreams I was aware of. I also contacted almost all the universities that asked for help in this mailing list. I ended up contacting the major RHEL derivatives distributions. So far nobody stepped in to take an active role on the oVirt project. I saw some patches coming from individual contributors here and there but no company investment so far.
We worked hard over the last year or so on making sure the oVirt project will be able to sustain development even without much involvement from us - including moving most of the infrastructure from private systems that were funded by/for oVirt/RHV, elsewhere - code review from Gerrit to GitHub, and CI (Continuous Integration) from jenkins to GitHub/Copr/CentOS CBS.
I appreciate the effort to make the source code accessible. However, I'm also wondering: was any sort of governing organization established, so that development could actually take place when RedHat pulls the plug?
Yes, oVirt has an open governance: https://www.ovirt.org/community/about/governance.html Right now in the oVirt board other than Red Hat there's a member of the Caltech university https://www.ovirt.org/community/about/board.html
The answer to this is probably related to my previous question, whether or not there are any non-RedHat developers involved.
Ciao - Frank _______________________________________________ Users mailing list -- users@ovirt.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave@ovirt.org Privacy Statement: https://www.ovirt.org/privacy-policy.html oVirt Code of Conduct: https://www.ovirt.org/community/about/community-guidelines/ List Archives: https://lists.ovirt.org/archives/list/users@ovirt.org/message/5DQ3OLT3B5QALL...
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Sandro Bonazzola
MANAGER, SOFTWARE ENGINEERING - Red Hat In-Vehicle OS
Red Hat EMEA [1]
sbonazzo@redhat.com
[1]
Red Hat respects your work life balance. Therefore there is no need to answer this email out of your office hours.
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Il giorno lun 21 nov 2022 alle ore 20:05 Alex McWhirter <alex@triadic.us> ha scritto:
I have some manpower im willing to throw at oVirt, but i somewhat need to know if what the community wants and what we want are in line.
1. We'd bring back spice and maybe qxl. We are already maintaining forks of the ovirt and RH kernels for this. We use ovirt currently for a lot of VDI solutions paired with nvidia grid. Not usable over VNC.
2. Hyperconverged storage is important. I'd suggest integrations with linstor. Seems well aligned with ovirt. Bringing back gluster is likely the wrong move.
3. oVirt desperately needs vxlan support. Ideally integrating with FRR on the backend so an ovirt node can just plug into an exiting EVPN VXLAN setup.
4. some things need cut from ovirt, namely hosted engine and maybe the grafana stuff. Not that these aren't nice to have, but hosted engine rarely actually works reliable in it's current state (compare mailing list complaints of hosted engine vs other issues) and the grafana stuff can be pushed into a sub project.
5. It needs to do containers. Doesn't need to be the behemoth of OKD, but something more along the lines of what k3s does, for now.
These are the thing's i'd like to see done, and maybe also cut back some of the RHEL specific stuff to allow debian deployments (would massively help with userbase). Basically for the past year i've been tasked with figuring out if we are going to fork ovirt internally or move to OpenNebula. I prefer the ovirt option if the opportunity now exists to take things in another direction.
I would suggest to open one thread per feature and discuss each one of them with the community so you'll have a better clue on the general interest on each of them.
On 2022-11-15 03:31, Sandro Bonazzola wrote:
Il giorno lun 14 nov 2022 alle ore 23:40 Frank Wall <fw@moov.de> ha scritto:
Hi Didi,
thanks for keeping us updated. However, I'm concerned...
Ultimately, the future of oVirt lies in the hands of the community. If you, as a community member, use and like oVirt, and want to see it thrive, now is the best time to help with this!
I don't want to be rude, but this sounds to me like no developers have shown interest in keeping oVirt alive. Is this true? Is no other company actively developing oVirt anymore?
I've contacted directly all the companies with oVirt downstreams I was aware of. I also contacted almost all the universities that asked for help in this mailing list. I ended up contacting the major RHEL derivatives distributions. So far nobody stepped in to take an active role on the oVirt project. I saw some patches coming from individual contributors here and there but no company investment so far.
We worked hard over the last year or so on making sure the oVirt project will be able to sustain development even without much involvement from us - including moving most of the infrastructure from private systems that were funded by/for oVirt/RHV, elsewhere - code review from Gerrit to GitHub, and CI (Continuous Integration) from jenkins to GitHub/Copr/CentOS CBS.
I appreciate the effort to make the source code accessible. However, I'm also wondering: was any sort of governing organization established, so that development could actually take place when RedHat pulls the plug?
Yes, oVirt has an open governance: https://www.ovirt.org/community/about/governance.html Right now in the oVirt board other than Red Hat there's a member of the Caltech university https://www.ovirt.org/community/about/board.html
The answer to this is probably related to my previous question, whether or not there are any non-RedHat developers involved.
Ciao - Frank _______________________________________________ Users mailing list -- users@ovirt.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave@ovirt.org Privacy Statement: https://www.ovirt.org/privacy-policy.html oVirt Code of Conduct: https://www.ovirt.org/community/about/community-guidelines/ List Archives: https://lists.ovirt.org/archives/list/users@ovirt.org/message/5DQ3OLT3B5QALL...
--
Sandro Bonazzola
MANAGER, SOFTWARE ENGINEERING - Red Hat In-Vehicle OS
Red Hat EMEA <https://www.redhat.com/>
sbonazzo@redhat.com <https://www.redhat.com/>
*Red Hat respects your work life balance. Therefore there is no need to answer this email out of your office hours.*
_______________________________________________ Users mailing list -- users@ovirt.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave@ovirt.org Privacy Statement: https://www.ovirt.org/privacy-policy.html oVirt Code of Conduct: https://www.ovirt.org/community/about/community-guidelines/ List Archives: https://lists.ovirt.org/archives/list/users@ovirt.org/message/IVCGZXVNOAFE44...
-- Sandro Bonazzola MANAGER, SOFTWARE ENGINEERING - Red Hat In-Vehicle OS Red Hat EMEA <https://www.redhat.com/> sbonazzo@redhat.com <https://www.redhat.com/> *Red Hat respects your work life balance. Therefore there is no need to answer this email out of your office hours.*
On 2022-11-21 19:56, Alex McWhirter wrote:
I have some manpower im willing to throw at oVirt, but i somewhat need to know if what the community wants and what we want are in line.
That's actually great news! I appreciate that you are reaching out to the community to get early feedback.
4. some things need cut from ovirt, namely hosted engine and maybe the grafana stuff. Not that these aren't nice to have, but hosted engine rarely actually works reliable in it's current state (compare mailing list complaints of hosted engine vs other issues) and the grafana stuff can be pushed into a sub project.
Oh, I'm puzzled, my experience is the opposite: hosted engine works great for me – and it has been this way for many years. (But I'm not using all of its features.) What would you suggest as replacement?
5. It needs to do containers. Doesn't need to be the behemoth of OKD, but something more along the lines of what k3s does, for now.
Agreed. However, I hope that it will not impose the insane overhead like k8s.
These are the thing's i'd like to see done, and maybe also cut back some of the RHEL specific stuff to allow debian deployments (would massively help with userbase). Basically for the past year i've been tasked with figuring out if we are going to fork ovirt internally or move to OpenNebula. I prefer the ovirt option if the opportunity now exists to take things in another direction.
Supporting different Linux distributions is a great idea. But I'd expect this to be a huge untertaking. Adding support for flavors like Rocky Linux would probably be a good first step. If you don't plan to fork oVirt, then I'd recommend to coordinate your efforts with the oVirt board members. AFAICT the current team of developers will continue to provide minor releases until RHEV is dead, so I guess new features or feature removals need to be done in a new major release (without help from RedHat). Ciao - Frank
Hi Alex,
On 21. 11. 2022, at 19:56, Alex McWhirter <alex@triadic.us> wrote:
I have some manpower im willing to throw at oVirt, but i somewhat need to know if what the community wants and what we want are in line.
I don't think anyone would oppose adding a new features. Removing is challenging, but we did went through quite a few removals too. Maintenance of all the various features has become a major burden to our team and things that were promising and useful can turn useless in few years and they need to be removed.
1. We'd bring back spice and maybe qxl. We are already maintaining forks of the ovirt and RH kernels for this. We use ovirt currently for a lot of VDI solutions paired with nvidia grid. Not usable over VNC.
SPICE has little development these days, and it's completely dropped from EL9. But other than that it's easy to keep in oVirt of course.
2. Hyperconverged storage is important. I'd suggest integrations with linstor. Seems well aligned with ovirt. Bringing back gluster is likely the wrong move.
We got decently far with managed storage using cinderlib. Repeating that with other implementation might be now easier, but it's still likely a big undertaking. Even teh cinderlib implementation is not really on par with the "native" vdsm storage code.
3. oVirt desperately needs vxlan support. Ideally integrating with FRR on the backend so an ovirt node can just plug into an exiting EVPN VXLAN setup.
4. some things need cut from ovirt, namely hosted engine and maybe the grafana stuff. Not that these aren't nice to have, but hosted engine rarely actually works reliable in it's current state (compare mailing list complaints of hosted engine vs other issues) and the grafana stuff can be pushed into a sub project.
grafana is mostly its own thing, there's some common setup code but that's it. And TBH the most of the complexity around DWH and setup is the support for remote deployment...and that would indeed be the first thing to drop as something that doesn't bring any benefit anymore. It was originally introduced to reduce overload of ovirt-engine machine but over the time we got much more efficient and hw got so much better that it's not worth it anymore As for HE the problem is it's the most prevalent mode of deployment. It's complex, that's true, but mostly the deployment, not the "runtime". It's a lot of code and it's fair to consider dropping all of it, but OTOH we don't have any other high availability solution for engine host then.
5. It needs to do containers. Doesn't need to be the behemoth of OKD, but something more along the lines of what k3s does, for now.
We had some experimental code in vdsm for container management from pre-kubernetes times. Ultimately it was removed in favor of doing it the other way around with Kubevirt. A simple management is probably not hard to add, but k8s features would probably require a full blown k8s distribution, even if "just" k3s and then you are again likely better off with adding Kubevirt to it.
These are the thing's i'd like to see done, and maybe also cut back some of the RHEL specific stuff to allow debian deployments (would massively help with userbase). Basically for the past year i've been tasked with figuring out if we are going to fork ovirt internally or move to OpenNebula. I prefer the ovirt option if the opportunity now exists to take things in another direction.
Rocky/Alma are almost there. Basically just the CI is missing and few small things here or there. Debian...we've tried that in early years, and besides limited capacity the major problem we had was with bugs. It's a mine field. We could influence RHEL to include the right fixes and depend on the right versions but with other distros it became too much to track. I guess it depends on resources, I think just switching to e.g. Debian wouldn't be too hard, there's no RHEL-specific code anywhere really. Overall I don't find any of the proposed directions problematic except for the Hosted Engine, that might need - at the very least - some transition plan. I believe a fresh blood in the project would be highly appreciated by everyone! Thanks, michal
On 2022-11-15 03:31, Sandro Bonazzola wrote:
Il giorno lun 14 nov 2022 alle ore 23:40 Frank Wall <fw@moov.de <mailto:fw@moov.de>> ha scritto: Hi Didi,
thanks for keeping us updated. However, I'm concerned...
Ultimately, the future of oVirt lies in the hands of the community. If you, as a community member, use and like oVirt, and want to see it thrive, now is the best time to help with this!
I don't want to be rude, but this sounds to me like no developers have shown interest in keeping oVirt alive. Is this true? Is no other company actively developing oVirt anymore?
I've contacted directly all the companies with oVirt downstreams I was aware of. I also contacted almost all the universities that asked for help in this mailing list. I ended up contacting the major RHEL derivatives distributions. So far nobody stepped in to take an active role on the oVirt project. I saw some patches coming from individual contributors here and there but no company investment so far.
We worked hard over the last year or so on making sure the oVirt project will be able to sustain development even without much involvement from us - including moving most of the infrastructure from private systems that were funded by/for oVirt/RHV, elsewhere - code review from Gerrit to GitHub, and CI (Continuous Integration) from jenkins to GitHub/Copr/CentOS CBS.
I appreciate the effort to make the source code accessible. However, I'm also wondering: was any sort of governing organization established, so that development could actually take place when RedHat pulls the plug?
Yes, oVirt has an open governance: https://www.ovirt.org/community/about/governance.html <https://www.ovirt.org/community/about/governance.html> Right now in the oVirt board other than Red Hat there's a member of the Caltech university https://www.ovirt.org/community/about/board.html <https://www.ovirt.org/community/about/board.html>
The answer to this is probably related to my previous question, whether or not there are any non-RedHat developers involved.
Ciao - Frank _______________________________________________ Users mailing list -- users@ovirt.org <mailto:users@ovirt.org> To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave@ovirt.org <mailto:users-leave@ovirt.org> Privacy Statement: https://www.ovirt.org/privacy-policy.html <https://www.ovirt.org/privacy-policy.html> oVirt Code of Conduct: https://www.ovirt.org/community/about/community-guidelines/ <https://www.ovirt.org/community/about/community-guidelines/> List Archives: https://lists.ovirt.org/archives/list/users@ovirt.org/message/5DQ3OLT3B5QALL... <https://lists.ovirt.org/archives/list/users@ovirt.org/message/5DQ3OLT3B5QALLFUK4OMKDYJEJXSYP7A/>
-- Sandro Bonazzola MANAGER, SOFTWARE ENGINEERING - Red Hat In-Vehicle OS Red Hat EMEA <https://www.redhat.com/>
sbonazzo@redhat.com <mailto:sbonazzo@redhat.com> <blocked.gif> <https://www.redhat.com/>
Red Hat respects your work life balance. Therefore there is no need to answer this email out of your office hours.
_______________________________________________ Users mailing list -- users@ovirt.org <mailto:users@ovirt.org> To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave@ovirt.org <mailto:users-leave@ovirt.org> Privacy Statement: https://www.ovirt.org/privacy-policy.html <https://www.ovirt.org/privacy-policy.html> oVirt Code of Conduct: https://www.ovirt.org/community/about/community-guidelines/ <https://www.ovirt.org/community/about/community-guidelines/> List Archives: https://lists.ovirt.org/archives/list/users@ovirt.org/message/IVCGZXVNOAFE44... <https://lists.ovirt.org/archives/list/users@ovirt.org/message/IVCGZXVNOAFE44ASIH6UFZGURL3OUFRW/>
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participants (10)
-
Alex McWhirter -
Alin Ilie -
Andrei Verovski -
Frank Wall -
Michal Skrivanek -
Nathanaël Blanchet -
Patrick Hibbs -
Sandro Bonazzola -
Strahil Nikolov -
Yedidyah Bar David