[ovirt-devel] Tools for developing and building oVirt.js project

Fri Aug 29 14:43:44 UTC 2014

----- Original Message -----
> From: "Sandro Bonazzola" <sbonazzo at redhat.com>
> To: "Vojtech Szocs" <vszocs at redhat.com>
> Cc: "Tomas Jelinek" <tjelinek at redhat.com>, "Mooli Tayer" <mtayer at redhat.com>, devel at ovirt.org, "infra"
> <infra at ovirt.org>
> Sent: Friday, August 29, 2014 8:05:58 AM
> Subject: Re: [ovirt-devel] Tools for developing and building oVirt.js project
> 
> Il 28/08/2014 21:00, Vojtech Szocs ha scritto:
> > 
> > 
> > ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "Sandro Bonazzola" <sbonazzo at redhat.com>
> >> To: "Tomas Jelinek" <tjelinek at redhat.com>, "Mooli Tayer"
> >> <mtayer at redhat.com>
> >> Cc: devel at ovirt.org
> >> Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2014 12:03:14 PM
> >> Subject: Re: [ovirt-devel] Tools for developing and building oVirt.js
> >> project
> >>
> >> Il 26/08/2014 09:38, Tomas Jelinek ha scritto:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>> From: "Mooli Tayer" <mtayer at redhat.com>
> >>>> To: "Greg Sheremeta" <gshereme at redhat.com>
> >>>> Cc: devel at ovirt.org
> >>>> Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2014 9:17:20 AM
> >>>> Subject: Re: [ovirt-devel] Tools for developing and building oVirt.js
> >>>> project
> >>>>
> >>>> Are we talking about using node as a development/test/packaging(minify
> >>>> etc
> >>>> )
> >>>> tool or having a runtime backend (site) on top of node?
> >>>
> >>> It is only devel environment (e.g. build dependency), not runtime.
> >>
> >>
> >> If it's build dependency it's not just devel environment.
> > 
> > Right, I messed up my comment above, sorry.
> > 
> > Node.js can be (and typically is) used as both devel & build dependency
> > for JavaScript projects.
> > 
> >> We must ensure that all required build dependencies are available and
> >> properly packaged for all supported distributions.
> > 
> > Yes, fully agreed.
> > 
> > Fedora already has some packages we could use, for example:
> > http://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/packageinfo?packageID=15154
> > http://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/packageinfo?packageID=15356
> > 
> > However, there's one complication (as Greg mentioned before): npm (Node
> > package manager) resolves Node-specific packages (esentially JavaScript
> > artifacts) via HTTP access, so we'd need some infra to serve these, and
> > for each such JS module:
> > - either use existing package for that JS module, if one exists
> > - or maintain package for that JS module on our own [*]
> > 
> > [*] I understand that this is not what we want to do in general
> 
> I would add
> - Ask supported distributions to provide needed rpms

Well, that ^^ would be ideal.

> 
> > 
> > In other words, there would have to be some infra to support builds for
> > JavaScript/Node.js projects, similar to existing infra to support builds
> > for Java/Maven projects:
> > - package for Node.js + npm
> > - package for each JS module (likely problematic)
> > - tool (existing Artifactory that serves Maven artifacts?) to serve
> >   JS modules via HTTP for npm to consume (maybe problematic)
> > 
> 
> Adding infra for above
> 
> 
> > In any case, we can proceed with developing oVirt.js without requiring
> > Node.js as a build dependency. I see two possible solutions here:
> > 
> > 1, avoid using build tools like Traceur (ES6 -> ES5 transpiler)
> >    and UglifyJS (code compressor/obfuscator), just concatenate
> >    JS source files into resulting JS target file (either via
> >    command in Makefile or via some Maven plugin)
> > 
> >    PROS: no special build requirements
> >    CONS: can't use tools like Traceur
> > 
> > 2, use build tools like Traceur and UglifyJS, commit resulting
> >    JS target file into source tree, maybe with git commit hook
> >    for this
> > 
> >    PROS: can use tools like Traceur
> >    CONS: storing target JS file in source tree
> > 
> > 3, (?)
> 
> Use something simpler to package for compressing / minimizing like
> http://yui.github.io/yuicompressor/ or any other tool like that at build time
> (nothing against Node.js at development time).

YUI Compressor is written in Java, we could use it within our Java-based
Engine build. It seems that YUI Compressor uses Rhino (JS engine written
in Java) with some custom Rhino extensions/tweaks.

I didn't find Fedora package for YUI Compressor, but I found this:

  http://davidb.github.io/yuicompressor-maven-plugin/

And luckily, this Maven plugin is also in JBoss Maven repo:

  https://repository.jboss.org/nexus/service/local/repositories/central/content/net/alchim31/maven/yuicompressor-maven-plugin/1.4.0/yuicompressor-maven-plugin-1.4.0.pom

OK, now some bad news. According to this:

  http://www.yuiblog.com/blog/2012/10/16/state-of-yui-compressor/

development on YUI Compressor continues through JavaScript (surprise!)
project yUglify (it's based on UglifyJS which I proposed way above):

  https://github.com/yui/yuglify

And, not surprisingly, yUglify is Node.js module. Here we go :)

As everyone can see, all popular tools for JavaScript development
are pretty much centered around Node.js, that is not coincidence.
Avoiding Node.js for JavaScript development complicates the whole
development and build process (from developer's perspective).

OK, now what we can do. I suggest to use wro4j (Java-based):

  https://code.google.com/p/wro4j/

wro4j uses Rhino to execute most of its "processors", including
UglifyJsProcessor. As I wrote before, wro4j bundles JS tools
(like UglifyJS) that are developed against Node.js runtime, and
runs them via Rhino. As a result, you can invoke JS development
tools from within Java environment.

It's available in JBoss Maven repo:

  https://repository.jboss.org/nexus/service/local/repositories/central/content/ro/isdc/wro4j/wro4j-maven-plugin/1.7.6/wro4j-maven-plugin-1.7.6.pom

Conclusion:

  * can we use wro4j-maven-plugin for now?
    (OK to add new Maven plugin dependency?)

  * in the long term, supporting Node.js within our build infra
    (still) seems needed, assuming we're in agreement about
    modularizing (currently monolithic) GWT UI, with JavaScript
    becoming the common base UI technology

> 
> 
> > 
> > What do you think?
> > 
> > Note that this might work for small projects in short term.
> > 
> > If we agree that JavaScript is the common base technology for
> > oVirt frontend, not having well-established build environment
> > (such as Node.js) will make it very hard to develop and maintain
> > bigger JavaScript projects in the long term.
> > 
> >>
> >>
> >>>
> >>> I'd just like to point out that one thing is the development of the
> >>> ovirt.js itself
> >>> which is not going to be a big project and I can imagine also using less
> >>> ideal (slower) tools for it's development.
> >>>
> >>> A completely different story will be when (if) we decide to use ovirt.js
> >>> to
> >>> develop some parts of the webadmin/userportal
> >>> in javascript instead of GWT (or even rewrite the whole FE to JS) which
> >>> will be a big project (set of projects).
> >>>
> >>> If we want to be effective in that effort, we will need good tools.
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>> From my perspective I can't stress enough how important is the
> >>>> separation
> >>>> of ovirt UI part from the backend. I agree to everything Vojtech said
> >>>> about
> >>>> developing to the browser with java.
> >>>>
> >>>> Mooli.
> >>>>
> >>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>>>> From: "Vojtech Szocs" <vszocs at redhat.com>
> >>>>>> To: devel at ovirt.org
> >>>>>> Sent: Monday, August 25, 2014 11:13:38 AM
> >>>>>> Subject: [ovirt-devel] Tools for developing and building oVirt.js
> >>>>>> project
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Hi guys,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> last week, we had "oVirt.js PoC" session and I mentioned the
> >>>>>> possibility
> >>>>>> of using Node.js and related tools like npm to develop & build
> >>>>>> oVirt.js
> >>>>>> project.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I'd like to hear your opinion - what do you think about using Node.js
> >>>>>> in
> >>>>>> context of developing & building JavaScript projects? (oVirt.js etc.)
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Obviously, I'm strongly biased towards Node.js because of its
> >>>>>> popularity
> >>>>>> and therefore availability of various tools (npm packages) for
> >>>>>> JavaScript,
> >>>>>> for example: grunt (task runner), jslint/hint (code analyzer),
> >>>>>> uglifyjs
> >>>>>> (minify/compress), karma (both one-time & continuous test runner),
> >>>>>> traceur
> >>>>>> (es6 -> es5 compiler), etc.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> My understanding is that any special-purpose JavaScript development
> >>>>>> tool
> >>>>>> is typically implemented as module for Node.js (due to its
> >>>>>> popularity),
> >>>>>> so I think it makes sense to use Node.js as a platform for JavaScript
> >>>>>> development.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> There are also Java-based projects for JavaScript (post)processing
> >>>>>> like
> >>>>>> wro4j, however these tend to be implemented by invoking JS tools (like
> >>>>>> uglifyjs) from Java context via Rhino (JS engine for Java), for
> >>>>>> example:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>   https://code.google.com/p/wro4j/source/browse/wro4j-extensions/src/main/java/ro/isdc/wro/extensions/processor/support/uglify/UglifyJs.java
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> (To me, developing JavaScript project with Java-centric tooling sounds
> >>>>>> quite strange in general.)
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> There's also webjars repository for hosting popular web resources for
> >>>>>> use in Java applications (i.e. Maven artifact for uglifyjs etc.), but
> >>>>>> this is just for easier dependency management from Java perspective
> >>>>>> (JAR file as a distribution format for web resources):
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>   http://www.webjars.org/
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Overall, I'm in favor of using Node.js to manage all tasks related to
> >>>>>> JavaScript development and build process. If you have any objections
> >>>>>> or suggestions, I'd like to hear them!
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> (I understand that Node.js essentially means new dependency with all
> >>>>>> implications, but in this case, I think it's worth it. But this is
> >>>>>> just me, so please share your opinions.)
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Thanks,
> >>>>>> Vojtech
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I think most developers would agree that node.js is the tool of choice
> >>>>> for
> >>>>> JavaScript development.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The thing we must carefully consider is that node.js uses its own
> >>>>> package
> >>>>> manager (npm -- much like maven), and unlike maven, tooling does not
> >>>>> yet
> >>>>> exist to deal with npm packages in an rpm environment.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> This isn't on the same level as adding a logging library or a
> >>>>> collections
> >>>>> library or something. I'd argue that dependencies don't get any heavier
> >>>>> than this one. That is worrisome to me.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Run 'yum list available |grep nodejs' on your machine to see which
> >>>>> node.js
> >>>>> packages are available. Note that I don't see karma or uglify available
> >>>>> in
> >>>>> either Fedora or Red Hat SCL (Software Collections) [1].
> >>>>>
> >>>>> [1]
> >>>>> https://sochotni.fedorapeople.org/nodejs010-RHSCL-1-RHEL-6/Server/x86_64/os/Packages/
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Greg
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>> Devel mailing list
> >>>>> Devel at ovirt.org
> >>>>> http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
> >>>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> Devel mailing list
> >>>> Devel at ovirt.org
> >>>> http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
> >>>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Devel mailing list
> >>> Devel at ovirt.org
> >>> http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Sandro Bonazzola
> >> Better technology. Faster innovation. Powered by community collaboration.
> >> See how it works at redhat.com
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Devel mailing list
> >> Devel at ovirt.org
> >> http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
> >>
> 
> 
> --
> Sandro Bonazzola
> Better technology. Faster innovation. Powered by community collaboration.
> See how it works at redhat.com
> 