On Fri 23 Aug 2013 12:19:01 PM CEST, Alon Bar-Lev wrote:
----- Original Message -----
> From: "David Caro Estevez" <dcaroest(a)redhat.com>
> To: "Alon Bar-Lev" <alonbl(a)redhat.com>
> Cc: "Eyal Edri" <eedri(a)redhat.com>, "engine-devel"
<engine-devel(a)ovirt.org>, "infra" <infra(a)ovirt.org>
> Sent: Friday, August 23, 2013 1:00:38 PM
> Subject: Re: [Engine-devel] Proposal for new commit msg design for engine commits
> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Alon Bar-Lev" <alonbl(a)redhat.com>
>> To: "David Caro" <dcaroest(a)redhat.com>
>> Cc: "Eyal Edri" <eedri(a)redhat.com>, "engine-devel"
>> <engine-devel(a)ovirt.org>, "infra" <infra(a)ovirt.org>
>> Sent: Friday, August 23, 2013 10:45:37 AM
>> Subject: Re: [Engine-devel] Proposal for new commit msg design for engine
>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "David Caro" <dcaroest(a)redhat.com>
>>> To: "Alon Bar-Lev" <alonbl(a)redhat.com>
>>> Cc: "Eyal Edri" <eedri(a)redhat.com>, "engine-devel"
>>> <engine-devel(a)ovirt.org>, "infra" <infra(a)ovirt.org>
>>> Sent: Friday, August 23, 2013 11:16:31 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [Engine-devel] Proposal for new commit msg design for engine
>>> On 07/20/2013 08:53 PM, Alon Bar-Lev wrote:
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Eyal Edri" <eedri(a)redhat.com>
>>>>> To: "Alon Bar-Lev" <alonbl(a)redhat.com>
>>>>> Cc: "infra" <infra(a)ovirt.org>,
>>>>> "Fabian Deutsch" <fabiand(a)redhat.com>
>>>>> Sent: Saturday, July 20, 2013 9:41:56 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Engine-devel] Proposal for new commit msg design for
>>>>> This change to commit template has nothing to do with CI.
>>>>> it's a change that should reflect updated components relevance to
>>>> This commit template is mostly invalid, as touching more than one
>>>> 'subsystem' is possible, and has not enough granularity.
>>> I suggest using a tag at the end with some extra syntax, like:
>>> Components: core, storage, db
>>> Components: all
>>> Components: all, !core, !db
>>>> For example, database change should trigger what?
>>> All the jobs that are tagged for that component (db upgrades I suppose).
>>> And if the changes affect storage components then also storage, if the
>>> changes affect others then those others too.
>>>> Infra change should trigger what?
>>> The same, all the jobs that are tagged as infra.
>>>> A change of both user interface and command should trigger what?
>>> All the jobs tagged by user interface and/or command.
>>>> So you end up with:
>>>> userportal: storage: core: db: some message
>>> As I suggested before, I think it's better if you end with a commit
>>> message like:
>>> Some message
>>> Components: userportal, storage, core, db
>>> Actually it can be easily done with a tag in the gerrit comment instead
>>> of the commit message.
>>>> Just to make who happy?
>>> The developer, the qe, the ci and the infra people. This mechanism is to
>>> avoid running all the tests all the time. Of course there are some times
>>> when all the tests should be run to make sure nothing else changed, but
>>> most times you just need to run part of them to make sure you did not
>>> break something obvious.
>>>> And maybe there are 50 tests of network, and you need only 5 of them
>>>> the specific change, how do you mark it, so now a developer need to
>>>> any test? what if you add one tomorrow which is relevant to a similar
>>>> change? how do you inform the developer that now he needs 6?
>>> As I said before, what the developer specifies is not a list of tests,
>>> but a list of components, that qe has to map to different sets of tests
>>> that can change with time. So specifying webadmin will run all the tests
>>> in that group, that might be only one, or 100, and might be
>>> increasing/decreasing with time transparently for the developer. Adding
>>> a new component is not common and there's no need to do it so
>>>> Why should it be the developer responsibility and not the quality
>>>> engineer responsibility to determine which tests should run and when?
>>> Of course it's the responsibility of the qe engineer to determine when
>>> and which tests should be run. But this is meant to be a new tool for
>>> the developer not a substitute for the full qe tests, so the developer
>>> can easily make sure that he's changes do not break anything obvious
>>> before starting the real tests (that will take more time and resources).
>>> The developer just adds some metadata so the qe engineer can decide
>>> which tests to run per patch, so it's on qe's hand in the end to
>>> if ignore or not the metadata and which tests to run.
>>>> As far as this template was not actually used for anything but humans,
>>>> was not that important, but once you formalize it as an interface, I
>>>> forward and state that the subject line is not the right tool for the
>>>> at hand (or any for this matter).
>>> I agree with that, I think that it should be a tag similar to Change-Id,
>>> at the end of the commit message.
>>>> The fact that you have in each commit are the sources that are
>>>> all the other data is just plain noise. From the sources that are
>>>> you should be able to derive a test plan with high chance that this
>>>> program will be correct. Human intervention should be possible by
>>>> special tests that are outside of the standard policy, for cases in
>>>> the standard policy of deriving tests from sources is too narrow.
>>> That's just not true. The sources are complicated enough to make two
>>> changes in the same file to affect different components. Any reused code
>>> is prone to affect multiple components, making it really hard to
>>> determine by which changed files which tests to run. And if you go down
>>> to the function/class level it's even harder to decide and to maintain.
>>> And of course it's not human error free, as the metadata in the
>>> files/directories is defined and maintained by a human. And in my
>>> opinion is a lot harder to implement and maintain, and a lot less agile,
>>> and does not get rid of the human factor.
>> Once again...
>> 1. Commit messages are not the place to specify metadata to interact with
>> automation, it is a record for future reviewer.
> Agree, that's why I suggested triggering it from a comment message. But that
> will require the developer another step after pushing.
>> 2. The metadata within sources are the mean to automate the list of tests
>> related to a specific source without human interaction on each commit.
> The drawbacks are:
> - It needs a lot of maintenance
One time maintenance compared to per patch.
Easier to enforce project policy, than relay on developer's policy.
It's one time big implementation and continued maintenance, each time a
new file is added, or moved it has to be changed, or when a file is
used in more than one place for the first time ...
> - It require very modular code and
Right, we require this anyway.
I agree, but the ETA of that is >> ETA of any other option
> - Locks the developer on which tests he want to run
As I wrote, it locks nothing, it is the baseline.
You can't avoid executing those tests, and if you want something else
you have to do more than just push, that is not an advantage in front
of any other solution.
>> 3. If there is doubt from list of tests run them all, this is simple rule
> Of course, but if there is too much doubt all that maintenance is useless.
So you suggest we run partial?
Yes, I though that is what this thread was for, to discuss the
possibility of running partial tests on patches so we do not overload
the infra while getting some feedback before running the whole set of
based on whose decision?
On the developers decision
can we trust him?
Enough to run some tests on his patch
proposal, yes. If we do not trust
any developer we become closed to newcomers, and that's against any
open source principle (and red hat's too) in my opinion.
>> 4. The metadata within files are not the only way to order tests, one can
>> this manually via jenkins or any other mean as one can now.
> As with any other solution.
Right, because of that I do not think this is emergency.
Just have jenkins jobs and people can order tests based on gerrit urls...
The problem is that people can not control which tests get triggered,
only which patch they run on. If you trigger from a gerrit url, all the
tests that can be triggered will (for that repo, meaning
>> 5. The metadata within files will help us to achieve other targets, such as
>> automatic CC maintainers, verify that +2/-2 are set by authorized
>> of component etc...
> That's true, but I think that maybe putting metadata in each file is
> One file in the root of the repo with a few lines should be enough for that
The metadata model I suggested was within each source and within directory.
The collection is metadata of source + recursive meta data of directories.
At file put signature.
At directory put a file, such as .ovirt.metadata with same fields.
I think that will lead to forgetting to update some sources as you are
not sure where the metadata is, for example, a lot of people will
forget to update file /a/b/c.txt and only update /a/.ovirt.metadata as
it is not obvious where the metadata is held (I know, you can just
execute a couple of command to find out, but in my experience people is
lazy, and things that depend on people not being lazy get forgotten).
Having only one place for the metadata helps prevent that though.
>> 6. Gerrit 2.6 supports labels which are actually what you are trying to
>> achieve using the commit message because of lack of other solutions.
> They are not fit for that, at least yet.
So maybe better if we can help gerrit to improve?
Thanks! Maybe we can spend some effort to make that happen, anyone with
java skills and willing to help reading this thread?
>> Until we have metadata within source, and we don't as we void discuss this
>> for long time, and try to find manual workarounds and solutions.
> Or until we have tags in the messages, for the same reasons. Don't forget
> metadata within source is also a 'manual workaround or solution', as someone
> to maintain all the metadata in all the files/directories (maybe for that
> will be better to have just one file with all that metadata, depending on
> level of granularity we need to map all the files).
I think best is to spread metadata within the entire tree, as then maintainer of file
control the metadata, if file is copied/duplicated/moved/renamed it keeps the metadata.
I can see your point, but that requires a lot of maintenance as I see
>> Add label for each test, this will allow ordering tests via the gerrit web
>> interface post submit.
> Adding a comment will too.
So why relay on commit message, you can just ask people to comment:
Agree, the commit message tag was though to avoid having to go to
gerrit page and create a new comment for each patch you submit. That
step has to be done manually right now. Maybe we can add a git hook on
the client side that detects the tag in the commit message, deletes it
and posts it as a separated comment on gerrit?
>> After people start to do this over and over and over and over they will
>> appreciate the need to add metadata into the source tree.
> I think that having to maintain metadata in all the files is way more
> but yes, as you say adding metadata to each file gives a lot more
> but only if it's up to date.
Just like claiming that the source is out of date.
If there is a mistake in metadata the maintainer will detect that when metadata is used.
I'm sorry, but I think that most of our code is out to date :s, meaning
it's not what it should be (not modular enough, duplicated code, legacy
code... I haven't heard of a developer sayiong, wow! this code is
really good and well maintained, it's usually the other way around),
and because of that I think that the metadata will have similar
treatment, changing that is not an easy and fast task. Though I really
believe that we will improve it. Maybe any other developers can supply
their views on this?
>> In future, if this works out we can help gerrit to improve by enhancing the
>> labels into free text/combo box etc...
>> Or maybe try to do this now if you like to help out gerrit to improve...
> That will make labels fit our purpose, and avoid having to add tags, metadata
> and all that, but it's not done yet. I'll gladly add that feature, but
> familiar with java or gerrit code, so I might not be the best person to do
> I'm sure that it will take a lot more time for me than the other options
> any comment?). If you are fluent with java and you want to help you are very
> welcome :)
You can help in making the metadata into the tree.
This will be a great step forward.
Of course, if that's what gets decided I will happily help as much as
So to get this closed and start working in a solution I've created an
Please anyone with opinion add you comments and votes, maybe we can
close this next week and start working! :)
Should we add vdsm also to the thread? They also want a solution like
this for their tests.
ps. you can add another proposals if you have them, of course.
Red Hat Czech s.r.o.
Continuous Integration Engineer - EMEA ENG Virtualization R&D
Tel.: +420 532 294 605
Red Hat Czech s.r.o., Purkyňova 99/71, 612 45, Brno, Czech Republic
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