feedback and questions about SR-IOV feature
This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------0682975F456428D8C805DCE3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello, My new 10G NICS support now SR-IOV, and I've played with this new=20 feature as passthrough device, so as to reduce my host CPU consumption. At the origin, I set up a bond on both 10G PF nics. After many configurations, the only way I manage to use a VF into a VM,=20 is to get out of the bond one nic. So does it mean that it is impossible to run a VM with VF with PF=20 attached to a bond? Moreover, something strange happens : during the boot of the VM, the=20 passthrough device gets an dhcp IP on the native vlan of the bond, and=20 once finally up, the real vlan used by this device is on the different=20 predifined vlan. It implies to me to reconfigure the network to ping=20 something on the wanted vlan. Really crazy. Other question is : In which case can it be useful to be able to bond 2=20 VF? UI let us to do so, but it is impossible to add any bridge on that=20 virtual bond. Comparing to a large number of restrictions (migration and others), my=20 opinion is that this feature seems to be very difficult to use in=20 production... --=20 Nathana=C3=ABl Blanchet Supervision r=C3=A9seau P=C3=B4le Infrastrutures Informatiques 227 avenue Professeur-Jean-Louis-Viala 34193 MONTPELLIER CEDEX 5 =09 T=C3=A9l. 33 (0)4 67 54 84 55 Fax 33 (0)4 67 54 84 14 blanchet@abes.fr --------------0682975F456428D8C805DCE3 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="------------B8DD2DB2DB1405B60856FE1B" --------------B8DD2DB2DB1405B60856FE1B Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <html> <head> <meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dutf= -8"> </head> <body text=3D"#000000" bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF"> <p>Hello,</p> <p>My new 10G NICS support now SR-IOV, and I've played with this new feature as passthrough device, so as to reduce my host CPU consumption.</p> <p>At the origin, I set up a bond on both 10G PF nics.</p> <p><img src=3D"cid:part1.C1B83326.689D5E56@abes.fr" alt=3D""></p> <p>After many configurations, the only way I manage to use a VF into a VM, is to get out of the bond one nic.</p> <p>So does it mean that it is impossible to run a VM with VF with PF attached to a bond?</p> <p>Moreover, something strange happens : during the boot of the VM, the passthrough device gets an dhcp IP on the native vlan of the bond, and once finally up, the real vlan used by this device is on the different predifined vlan. It implies to me to reconfigure the network to ping something on the wanted vlan. Really crazy.<br> </p> <p>Other question is : In which case can it be useful to be able to bond 2 VF? UI let us to do so, but it is impossible to add any bridge on that virtual bond.</p> Comparing to a large number of restrictions (migration and others), my opinion is that this feature seems to be very difficult to use in production...<br> <pre class=3D"moz-signature" cols=3D"72">--=20 Nathana=C3=ABl Blanchet Supervision r=C3=A9seau P=C3=B4le Infrastrutures Informatiques 227 avenue Professeur-Jean-Louis-Viala 34193 MONTPELLIER CEDEX 5 =09 T=C3=A9l. 33 (0)4 67 54 84 55 Fax 33 (0)4 67 54 84 14 <a class=3D"moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href=3D"mailto:blanchet@abes.fr">bl= anchet@abes.fr</a> </pre> </body> </html> --------------B8DD2DB2DB1405B60856FE1B Content-Type: image/png; name="hkbplebiiahmlplc.png" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: <part1.C1B83326.689D5E56@abes.fr> Content-Disposition: inline; filename="hkbplebiiahmlplc.png" iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAAi0AAAEpCAIAAADQ8oWuAAAAA3NCSVQICAjb4U/gAAAgAElE QVR4XuydB1hTVxvHb3bCCCssZQiIAqKC4l64sU6sW3EPsFq3tX5aR7XuVbdVi3Xvgat1IW4U 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On 06/12/16 12:14 +0100, Nathanaël Blanchet wrote:
Hello,
My new 10G NICS support now SR-IOV, and I've played with this new feature as passthrough device, so as to reduce my host CPU consumption.
At the origin, I set up a bond on both 10G PF nics.
After many configurations, the only way I manage to use a VF into a VM, is to get out of the bond one nic.
So does it mean that it is impossible to run a VM with VF with PF attached to a bond?
As far as I know, it's not possible to do that. The reason is that the bond normally creates new (logical) interface, what you are doing is assigning "part" of the bond directly to a VM and the driver within VM isn't aware of the bond.
Moreover, something strange happens : during the boot of the VM, the passthrough device gets an dhcp IP on the native vlan of the bond, and once finally up, the real vlan used by this device is on the different predifined vlan. It implies to me to reconfigure the network to ping something on the wanted vlan. Really crazy.
This could be explained by previous statement: bonding PFs at hypervisor level and then assigning VFs to a VM can most likely cause undefined behavior.
Other question is : In which case can it be useful to be able to bond 2 VF? UI let us to do so, but it is impossible to add any bridge on that virtual bond.
At hypervisor level? I believe it doesn't make sense. If you require bond between 2 PFs, you can assign 2 VFs each from different PF to a VM and bond them within the guest.
Comparing to a large number of restrictions (migration and others), my opinion is that this feature seems to be very difficult to use in production...
The use case for SR-IOV is maximum performance at the cost of convenience while still (somewhat) allowing you to scale.
-- Nathanaël Blanchet
Supervision réseau Pôle Infrastrutures Informatiques 227 avenue Professeur-Jean-Louis-Viala 34193 MONTPELLIER CEDEX 5 Tél. 33 (0)4 67 54 84 55 Fax 33 (0)4 67 54 84 14 blanchet@abes.fr
_______________________________________________ Users mailing list Users@ovirt.org http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/users
Le 06/12/2016 à 13:19, Martin Polednik a écrit :
On 06/12/16 12:14 +0100, Nathanaël Blanchet wrote:
Hello,
My new 10G NICS support now SR-IOV, and I've played with this new feature as passthrough device, so as to reduce my host CPU consumption.
At the origin, I set up a bond on both 10G PF nics.
After many configurations, the only way I manage to use a VF into a VM, is to get out of the bond one nic.
So does it mean that it is impossible to run a VM with VF with PF attached to a bond?
As far as I know, it's not possible to do that. The reason is that the bond normally creates new (logical) interface, what you are doing is assigning "part" of the bond directly to a VM and the driver within VM isn't aware of the bond. This is what I supposed, UI should prevent us to create VFfrom when nic is attached to a bond. Pencil icon should'nt appear in this case.
Moreover, something strange happens : during the boot of the VM, the passthrough device gets an dhcp IP on the native vlan of the bond, and once finally up, the real vlan used by this device is on the different predifined vlan. It implies to me to reconfigure the network to ping something on the wanted vlan. Really crazy.
This could be explained by previous statement: bonding PFs at hypervisor level and then assigning VFs to a VM can most likely cause undefined behavior. The issue is the same when the PF is not attached to a bond, so in an expected working situation.
Other question is : In which case can it be useful to be able to bond 2 VF? UI let us to do so, but it is impossible to add any bridge on that virtual bond.
At hypervisor level? I believe it doesn't make sense. I wonder this because UI allows to do it. The same as above, user shouldn't be allowed to bond two VFs, and not allowed to add virtual network to a VF
If you require bond between 2 PFs, you can assign 2 VFs each from different PF to a VM and bond them within the guest.
Comparing to a large number of restrictions (migration and others), my opinion is that this feature seems to be very difficult to use in production...
The use case for SR-IOV is maximum performance at the cost of convenience while still (somewhat) allowing you to scale.
-- Nathanaël Blanchet
Supervision réseau Pôle Infrastrutures Informatiques 227 avenue Professeur-Jean-Louis-Viala 34193 MONTPELLIER CEDEX 5 Tél. 33 (0)4 67 54 84 55 Fax 33 (0)4 67 54 84 14 blanchet@abes.fr
_______________________________________________ Users mailing list Users@ovirt.org http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/users
-- Nathanaël Blanchet Supervision réseau Pôle Infrastrutures Informatiques 227 avenue Professeur-Jean-Louis-Viala 34193 MONTPELLIER CEDEX 5 Tél. 33 (0)4 67 54 84 55 Fax 33 (0)4 67 54 84 14 blanchet@abes.fr
Hello Nathanael VFs are regular NICs and can be used as regular NICs. We are allowing to create bond from them and allowing to attach logical networks to them, because as long as they are not used by any VM, they can be used just as any other interfaces on the host. When creating bond from 2 VFs you should see the pencil icon, because you want to able to edit the bond. Vf is an interface and you can use it just as you use regular interface on the host. * When you create bond from 2 VFs, this VFs are no longer free and you can't use them to run VM * The same for attaching a network to VF, this VF is no longer considered as free VF. There is no problem about it, this is exactly how it was designed ) , you have to remember that as long as the VFs are not used by VM, they can be used as regular NICs and you can do with them everything you want. http://www.ovirt.org/develop/release-management/features/engine/sr-iov/ Regards, On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 4:23 PM, Nathanaël Blanchet <blanchet@abes.fr> wrote:
Le 06/12/2016 à 13:19, Martin Polednik a écrit :
On 06/12/16 12:14 +0100, Nathanaël Blanchet wrote:
Hello,
My new 10G NICS support now SR-IOV, and I've played with this new feature as passthrough device, so as to reduce my host CPU consumption.
At the origin, I set up a bond on both 10G PF nics.
After many configurations, the only way I manage to use a VF into a VM, is to get out of the bond one nic.
So does it mean that it is impossible to run a VM with VF with PF attached to a bond?
As far as I know, it's not possible to do that. The reason is that the bond normally creates new (logical) interface, what you are doing is assigning "part" of the bond directly to a VM and the driver within VM isn't aware of the bond.
This is what I supposed, UI should prevent us to create VFfrom when nic is attached to a bond. Pencil icon should'nt appear in this case.
Moreover, something strange happens : during the boot of the VM, the
passthrough device gets an dhcp IP on the native vlan of the bond, and once finally up, the real vlan used by this device is on the different predifined vlan. It implies to me to reconfigure the network to ping something on the wanted vlan. Really crazy.
This could be explained by previous statement: bonding PFs at hypervisor level and then assigning VFs to a VM can most likely cause undefined behavior.
The issue is the same when the PF is not attached to a bond, so in an expected working situation.
Other question is : In which case can it be useful to be able to bond 2
VF? UI let us to do so, but it is impossible to add any bridge on that virtual bond.
At hypervisor level? I believe it doesn't make sense.
I wonder this because UI allows to do it. The same as above, user shouldn't be allowed to bond two VFs, and not allowed to add virtual network to a VF
If you require bond between 2 PFs, you can assign 2 VFs each from different PF to a VM and bond them within the guest.
Comparing to a large number of restrictions (migration and others), my
opinion is that this feature seems to be very difficult to use in production...
The use case for SR-IOV is maximum performance at the cost of convenience while still (somewhat) allowing you to scale.
--
Nathanaël Blanchet
Supervision réseau Pôle Infrastrutures Informatiques 227 avenue Professeur-Jean-Louis-Viala 34193 MONTPELLIER CEDEX 5 Tél. 33 (0)4 67 54 84 55 Fax 33 (0)4 67 54 84 14 blanchet@abes.fr
_______________________________________________
Users mailing list Users@ovirt.org http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/users
-- Nathanaël Blanchet
Supervision réseau Pôle Infrastrutures Informatiques 227 avenue Professeur-Jean-Louis-Viala 34193 MONTPELLIER CEDEX 5 Tél. 33 (0)4 67 54 84 55 Fax 33 (0)4 67 54 84 14 blanchet@abes.fr
_______________________________________________ Users mailing list Users@ovirt.org http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/users
-- Michael Burman RedHat Israel, RHV-M Network QE Mobile: 054-5355725 IRC: mburman
On 06/12/16 16:58 +0200, Michael Burman wrote:
Hello Nathanael
VFs are regular NICs and can be used as regular NICs. We are allowing to create bond from them and allowing to attach logical networks to them, because as long as they are not used by any VM, they can be used just as any other interfaces on the host.
When creating bond from 2 VFs you should see the pencil icon, because you want to able to edit the bond. Vf is an interface and you can use it just as you use regular interface on the host.
* When you create bond from 2 VFs, this VFs are no longer free and you can't use them to run VM * The same for attaching a network to VF, this VF is no longer considered as free VF.
There is no problem about it, this is exactly how it was designed ) , you have to remember that as long as the VFs are not used by VM, they can be used as regular NICs and you can do with them everything you want.
That doesn't mean we have the right design: there is no problem in bonding 2 VFs belonging to 2 different PFs; but every sane software warns you if you try to bond 2 VFs from the same PF together (what do you get by such bond?) -- this applies to both host and guest.
http://www.ovirt.org/develop/release-management/features/engine/sr-iov/
Regards,
On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 4:23 PM, Nathanaël Blanchet <blanchet@abes.fr> wrote:
Le 06/12/2016 à 13:19, Martin Polednik a écrit :
On 06/12/16 12:14 +0100, Nathanaël Blanchet wrote:
Hello,
My new 10G NICS support now SR-IOV, and I've played with this new feature as passthrough device, so as to reduce my host CPU consumption.
At the origin, I set up a bond on both 10G PF nics.
After many configurations, the only way I manage to use a VF into a VM, is to get out of the bond one nic.
So does it mean that it is impossible to run a VM with VF with PF attached to a bond?
As far as I know, it's not possible to do that. The reason is that the bond normally creates new (logical) interface, what you are doing is assigning "part" of the bond directly to a VM and the driver within VM isn't aware of the bond.
This is what I supposed, UI should prevent us to create VFfrom when nic is attached to a bond. Pencil icon should'nt appear in this case.
Moreover, something strange happens : during the boot of the VM, the
passthrough device gets an dhcp IP on the native vlan of the bond, and once finally up, the real vlan used by this device is on the different predifined vlan. It implies to me to reconfigure the network to ping something on the wanted vlan. Really crazy.
This could be explained by previous statement: bonding PFs at hypervisor level and then assigning VFs to a VM can most likely cause undefined behavior.
The issue is the same when the PF is not attached to a bond, so in an expected working situation.
Other question is : In which case can it be useful to be able to bond 2
VF? UI let us to do so, but it is impossible to add any bridge on that virtual bond.
At hypervisor level? I believe it doesn't make sense.
I wonder this because UI allows to do it. The same as above, user shouldn't be allowed to bond two VFs, and not allowed to add virtual network to a VF
If you require bond between 2 PFs, you can assign 2 VFs each from different PF to a VM and bond them within the guest.
Comparing to a large number of restrictions (migration and others), my
opinion is that this feature seems to be very difficult to use in production...
The use case for SR-IOV is maximum performance at the cost of convenience while still (somewhat) allowing you to scale.
--
Nathanaël Blanchet
Supervision réseau Pôle Infrastrutures Informatiques 227 avenue Professeur-Jean-Louis-Viala 34193 MONTPELLIER CEDEX 5 Tél. 33 (0)4 67 54 84 55 Fax 33 (0)4 67 54 84 14 blanchet@abes.fr
_______________________________________________
Users mailing list Users@ovirt.org http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/users
-- Nathanaël Blanchet
Supervision réseau Pôle Infrastrutures Informatiques 227 avenue Professeur-Jean-Louis-Viala 34193 MONTPELLIER CEDEX 5 Tél. 33 (0)4 67 54 84 55 Fax 33 (0)4 67 54 84 14 blanchet@abes.fr
_______________________________________________ Users mailing list Users@ovirt.org http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/users
-- Michael Burman RedHat Israel, RHV-M Network QE
Mobile: 054-5355725 IRC: mburman
I didn't said it is the right design, i guess that i can get nothing from such bond and you are right, but, This is was long discussed a year ago(maybe more) with network DEV when we planed this feature and it was decided to allow to create bond from VFs. Thanks, On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 5:04 PM, Martin Polednik <mpolednik@redhat.com> wrote:
On 06/12/16 16:58 +0200, Michael Burman wrote:
Hello Nathanael
VFs are regular NICs and can be used as regular NICs. We are allowing to create bond from them and allowing to attach logical networks to them, because as long as they are not used by any VM, they can be used just as any other interfaces on the host.
When creating bond from 2 VFs you should see the pencil icon, because you want to able to edit the bond. Vf is an interface and you can use it just as you use regular interface on the host.
* When you create bond from 2 VFs, this VFs are no longer free and you can't use them to run VM * The same for attaching a network to VF, this VF is no longer considered as free VF.
There is no problem about it, this is exactly how it was designed ) , you have to remember that as long as the VFs are not used by VM, they can be used as regular NICs and you can do with them everything you want.
That doesn't mean we have the right design: there is no problem in bonding 2 VFs belonging to 2 different PFs; but every sane software warns you if you try to bond 2 VFs from the same PF together (what do you get by such bond?) -- this applies to both host and guest.
http://www.ovirt.org/develop/release-management/features/engine/sr-iov/
Regards,
On Tue, Dec 6, 2016 at 4:23 PM, Nathanaël Blanchet <blanchet@abes.fr> wrote:
Le 06/12/2016 à 13:19, Martin Polednik a écrit :
On 06/12/16 12:14 +0100, Nathanaël Blanchet wrote:
Hello,
My new 10G NICS support now SR-IOV, and I've played with this new feature as passthrough device, so as to reduce my host CPU consumption.
At the origin, I set up a bond on both 10G PF nics.
After many configurations, the only way I manage to use a VF into a VM, is to get out of the bond one nic.
So does it mean that it is impossible to run a VM with VF with PF attached to a bond?
As far as I know, it's not possible to do that. The reason is that the bond normally creates new (logical) interface, what you are doing is assigning "part" of the bond directly to a VM and the driver within VM isn't aware of the bond.
This is what I supposed, UI should prevent us to create VFfrom when nic
is attached to a bond. Pencil icon should'nt appear in this case.
Moreover, something strange happens : during the boot of the VM, the
passthrough device gets an dhcp IP on the native vlan of the bond, and once finally up, the real vlan used by this device is on the different predifined vlan. It implies to me to reconfigure the network to ping something on the wanted vlan. Really crazy.
This could be explained by previous statement: bonding PFs at hypervisor level and then assigning VFs to a VM can most likely cause undefined behavior.
The issue is the same when the PF is not attached to a bond, so in an expected working situation.
Other question is : In which case can it be useful to be able to bond 2
VF? UI let us to do so, but it is impossible to add any bridge on that virtual bond.
At hypervisor level? I believe it doesn't make sense.
I wonder this because UI allows to do it. The same as above, user shouldn't be allowed to bond two VFs, and not allowed to add virtual network to a VF
If you require bond between 2 PFs, you can assign 2 VFs each from
different PF to a VM and bond them within the guest.
Comparing to a large number of restrictions (migration and others), my
opinion is that this feature seems to be very difficult to use in production...
The use case for SR-IOV is maximum performance at the cost of convenience while still (somewhat) allowing you to scale.
--
Nathanaël Blanchet
Supervision réseau Pôle Infrastrutures Informatiques 227 avenue Professeur-Jean-Louis-Viala 34193 MONTPELLIER CEDEX 5 Tél. 33 (0)4 67 54 84 55 Fax 33 (0)4 67 54 84 14 blanchet@abes.fr
_______________________________________________
Users mailing list Users@ovirt.org http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/users
-- Nathanaël Blanchet
Supervision réseau Pôle Infrastrutures Informatiques 227 avenue Professeur-Jean-Louis-Viala 34193 MONTPELLIER CEDEX 5 Tél. 33 (0)4 67 54 84 55 Fax 33 (0)4 67 54 84 14 blanchet@abes.fr
_______________________________________________ Users mailing list Users@ovirt.org http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/users
-- Michael Burman RedHat Israel, RHV-M Network QE
Mobile: 054-5355725 IRC: mburman
-- Michael Burman RedHat Israel, RHV-M Network QE Mobile: 054-5355725 IRC: mburman
On 06/12/16 15:23 +0100, Nathanaël Blanchet wrote:
Le 06/12/2016 à 13:19, Martin Polednik a écrit :
On 06/12/16 12:14 +0100, Nathanaël Blanchet wrote:
Hello,
My new 10G NICS support now SR-IOV, and I've played with this new feature as passthrough device, so as to reduce my host CPU consumption.
At the origin, I set up a bond on both 10G PF nics.
After many configurations, the only way I manage to use a VF into a VM, is to get out of the bond one nic.
So does it mean that it is impossible to run a VM with VF with PF attached to a bond?
As far as I know, it's not possible to do that. The reason is that the bond normally creates new (logical) interface, what you are doing is assigning "part" of the bond directly to a VM and the driver within VM isn't aware of the bond. This is what I supposed, UI should prevent us to create VFfrom when nic is attached to a bond. Pencil icon should'nt appear in this case.
Agreed.
Moreover, something strange happens : during the boot of the VM, the passthrough device gets an dhcp IP on the native vlan of the bond, and once finally up, the real vlan used by this device is on the different predifined vlan. It implies to me to reconfigure the network to ping something on the wanted vlan. Really crazy.
This could be explained by previous statement: bonding PFs at hypervisor level and then assigning VFs to a VM can most likely cause undefined behavior.
The issue is the same when the PF is not attached to a bond, so in an expected working situation.
Interesting, could be something regarding mac anti-spoofing. I've found something for Mellanox cards (you didn't specify which NIC do you use) - https://community.mellanox.com/docs/DOC-2461 -- could that be the source of your issues?
Other question is : In which case can it be useful to be able to bond 2 VF? UI let us to do so, but it is impossible to add any bridge on that virtual bond.
At hypervisor level? I believe it doesn't make sense.
I wonder this because UI allows to do it. The same as above, user shouldn't be allowed to bond two VFs, and not allowed to add virtual network to a VF
Agreed. (also adding networking people)
If you require bond between 2 PFs, you can assign 2 VFs each from different PF to a VM and bond them within the guest.
Comparing to a large number of restrictions (migration and others), my opinion is that this feature seems to be very difficult to use in production...
The use case for SR-IOV is maximum performance at the cost of convenience while still (somewhat) allowing you to scale.
-- Nathanaël Blanchet
Supervision réseau Pôle Infrastrutures Informatiques 227 avenue Professeur-Jean-Louis-Viala 34193 MONTPELLIER CEDEX 5 Tél. 33 (0)4 67 54 84 55 Fax 33 (0)4 67 54 84 14 blanchet@abes.fr
_______________________________________________ Users mailing list Users@ovirt.org http://lists.ovirt.org/mailman/listinfo/users
-- Nathanaël Blanchet
Supervision réseau Pôle Infrastrutures Informatiques 227 avenue Professeur-Jean-Louis-Viala 34193 MONTPELLIER CEDEX 5 Tél. 33 (0)4 67 54 84 55 Fax 33 (0)4 67 54 84 14 blanchet@abes.fr
participants (3)
-
Martin Polednik -
Michael Burman -
Nathanaël Blanchet