- Users - oVirt List Archives

Change Vlan ID's which are connected to the Host/VM's
by Matt . 19 Feb '17

19 Feb '17

Hi Guys, Is there a way to change Vlan ID's which are connected to the Hosts when the VM's on it are down ? As i need to change a lot of them it would be create if the engine can perform some process which allows me to hammer my hosts with the new vlan ID's for their bridges. I hope someone has an idea. Thanks! Matt

3 12

Re: [ovirt-users] Best setup for nfs domain and 1gbs adapters on hosts
by Karli Sjöberg 17 Feb '17

17 Feb '17

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2 1

Best setup for nfs domain and 1gbs adapters on hosts
by Gianluca Cecchi 17 Feb '17

17 Feb '17

Hello, I'm going to setup an environment where I will have 2 hosts and each with 2 adapters to connect to storage domain(s). This will be a test environment, not a production one. The storage domain(s) will be NFS, provided by a Netapp system. The hosts have 4 x 1Gb/s adapters and I think to use 2 for ovirtmgmt and VMs (through bonding and VLANs) and to dedicate the other 2 adapters to the NFS domain connectivity. What would be the best setup to have both HA on the connection and also using the whole 2Gb/s in normal load scenario? Is it better to make more storage domains (and more svm on Netapp side) or only one? What would be the suitable bonding mode to put on adapters? I normally use 802.3ad provided by the switches, but I'm not sure if in this configuration I can use both the network adapters for the overall load of the different VMs that I would have in place... Thanks in advance for every suggestion, Gianluca

1 0

VNC console extremely slow on windows 10
by Nelson Lameiras 17 Feb '17

17 Feb '17

------=_Part_8478208_180746044.1487006648666 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello,=20 Since my company laptop has been migrated to from windows 7 to windows 10, = launching a console on oVirt 4.0 (and 4.1) VMs which are configured with VN= C graphics is extremely slow (around one refresh every 10 seconds). This is= painfully slow and barely usable. The same console on SPICE graphics works= perfectly.=20 This is specially annoying since oVirt engine installation console works on= ly with VNC in my build. I'm installing oVirt 4.1 on a test cluster, this m= akes my life very hard :(=20 So, now I'm not sure this is an issue with oVirt, remote-viewer (for window= s) or windows 10.=20 Does anybody else have this problem? any advice?=20 cordialement, regards,=20 =09Nelson LAMEIRAS=20 Ing=C3=A9nieur Syst=C3=A8mes et R=C3=A9seaux / Systems and Networks enginee= r=20 Tel: +33 5 32 09 09 70=20 nelson.lameiras(a)lyra-network.com=20 www.lyra-network.com | www.payzen.eu=20 =09 =09 =09 Lyra Network, 109 rue de l'innovation, 31670 Lab=C3=A8ge, FRANCE=20 ------=_Part_8478208_180746044.1487006648666 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_Part_8478209_1696867783.1487006648666" ------=_Part_8478209_1696867783.1487006648666 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <html><body><div style=3D"font-family: arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-s= ize: 12pt; color: #000000"><div>Hello,<br></div><div><br data-mce-bogus=3D"= 1"></div><div>Since my company laptop has been migrated to from windows 7 t= o windows 10, launching a console on oVirt 4.0 (and 4.1) VMs which are conf= igured with VNC graphics is extremely slow (around one refresh every 10 sec= onds). This is painfully slow and barely usable. The same console on SPICE = graphics works perfectly.<br data-mce-bogus=3D"1"></div><div><br data-mce-b= ogus=3D"1"></div><div>This is specially annoying since oVirt engine install= ation console works only with VNC in my build. I'm installing oVirt 4.1 on = a test cluster, this makes my life very hard :(<br data-mce-bogus=3D"1"></d= iv><div><br data-mce-bogus=3D"1"></div><div>So, now I'm not sure this is an= issue with oVirt, remote-viewer (for windows) or windows 10.<br data-mce-b= ogus=3D"1"></div><div><br data-mce-bogus=3D"1"></div><div>Does anybody else= have this problem? any advice?<br data-mce-bogus=3D"1"></div><div><br></di= v><div data-marker=3D"__SIG_PRE__"><div>cordialement, regards,</div><div><b= r data-mce-bogus=3D"1"></div><table style=3D"margin: 0px; table-layout: fix= ed; border: none; width: 345pt; padding: 0px;" data-mce-style=3D"margin: 0p= x; table-layout: fixed; border: none; width: 345pt; padding: 0px;" width=3D= "460" cellspacing=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0" border=3D"0"><tbody><tr><td style= =3D"margin: 0; font-size: 11px; font-family: Arial,sans-serif; color: #2b3c= 7a; line-height: 16px; width: 86.25pt; text-align: left;" data-mce-style=3D= "margin: 0; font-size: 11px; font-family: Arial,sans-serif; color: #2b3c7a;= line-height: 16px; width: 86.25pt; text-align: left;" width=3D"115" valign= =3D"top"><a href=3D"https://www.lyra-network.com/" style=3D"border: none; t= ext-decoration: none; width: 100%; display: block; clear: both;" data-mce-h= ref=3D"https://www.lyra-network.com/" data-mce-style=3D"border: none; text-= decoration: none; width: 100%; display: block; clear: both;"><img src=3D"ci= d:0e25a29c09e0a606ebb40f3ab356ecabc4303510@zimbra" alt=3D"" data-mce-src=3D= "/home/admin(a)lyra-network.com/corporate-documents/element-signature_logo_ly= ra_115x94.jpg" doc=3D"corporate-documents/element-signature_logo_lyra_115x9= 4.jpg" height=3D"94" width=3D"115" border=3D"0"></a><br data-mce-bogus=3D"1= "></td><td style=3D"margin: 0; font-size: 11px; font-family: Arial,sans-ser= if; color: #2b3c7a; line-height: 16px; width: 258.75pt;" data-mce-style=3D"= margin: 0; font-size: 11px; font-family: Arial,sans-serif; color: #2b3c7a; = line-height: 16px; width: 258.75pt;" width=3D"345" valign=3D"top"><table st= yle=3D"margin: 0; width: 258.75pt; table-layout: fixed; border: none;" data= -mce-style=3D"margin: 0; width: 258.75pt; table-layout: fixed; border: none= ;" width=3D"345" cellspacing=3D"0" cellpadding=3D"0" border=3D"0"><tbody><t= r><td style=3D"font-size: 16px; font-family: Arial,sans-serif; color: #2b3c= 7a; line-height: 18px; font-weight: bold;" data-mce-style=3D"font-size: 16p= x; font-family: Arial,sans-serif; color: #2b3c7a; line-height: 18px; font-w= eight: bold;">Nelson LAMEIRAS</td></tr><tr><td style=3D"font-family: Arial,= sans-serif; color: #2b3c7a; font-size: 11px; line-height: 16px;" data-mce-s= tyle=3D"font-family: Arial,sans-serif; color: #2b3c7a; font-size: 11px; lin= e-height: 16px;">Ing=C3=A9nieur Syst=C3=A8mes et R=C3=A9seaux<span style=3D= "font-family: Arial,sans-serif; color: #337ab7; font-size: 11px;" data-mce-= style=3D"font-family: Arial,sans-serif; color: #337ab7; font-size: 11px;"> = / Systems and Networks engineer</span></td></tr><tr><td style=3D"line-heigh= t: 16px; font-family: 'Arial',sans-serif; color: #2b3c7a; font-size: 11px;"= data-mce-style=3D"line-height: 16px; font-family: 'Arial',sans-serif; colo= r: #2b3c7a; font-size: 11px;"><span style=3D"font-family: Arial,sans-serif;= color: #2b3c7a; font-size: 11px;" data-mce-style=3D"font-family: Arial,san= s-serif; color: #2b3c7a; font-size: 11px;">Tel: +33 5 32 09 09 70</span></t= d></tr><tr><td style=3D"line-height: 16px; font-family: 'Arial',sans-serif;= color: #2b3c7a; font-size: 11px;" data-mce-style=3D"line-height: 16px; fon= t-family: 'Arial',sans-serif; color: #2b3c7a; font-size: 11px;"><a href=3D"= mailto:nelson.lameiras@lyra-network.com" style=3D"font-size: 11px; font-fam= ily: Arial,sans-serif; line-height: 16px; text-decoration: none;" data-mce-= href=3D"mailto:nelson.lameiras@lyra-network.com" data-mce-style=3D"font-siz= e: 11px; font-family: Arial,sans-serif; line-height: 16px; text-decoration:= none;">nelson.lameiras(a)lyra-network.com</a><br data-mce-bogus=3D"1"></td><= /tr><tr><td style=3D"line-height: 16px; font-family: 'Arial',sans-serif; co= lor: #2b3c7a; font-size: 11px;" data-mce-style=3D"line-height: 16px; font-f= amily: 'Arial',sans-serif; color: #2b3c7a; font-size: 11px;"><a href=3D"htt= ps://www.lyra-network.com/" style=3D"font-size: 11px; font-family: Arial,sa= ns-serif; line-height: 16px; border: none; text-decoration: none;" data-mce= -href=3D"https://www.lyra-network.com/" data-mce-style=3D"font-size: 11px; = font-family: Arial,sans-serif; line-height: 16px; border: none; text-decora= tion: none;">www.lyra-network.com</a> <a href=3D"https://payzen.eu" style= =3D"font-size: 11px; font-family: Arial,sans-serif; line-height: 16px; bord= er: none; text-decoration: none;" data-mce-href=3D"https://payzen.eu" data-= mce-style=3D"font-size: 11px; font-family: Arial,sans-serif; line-height: 1= 6px; border: none; text-decoration: none;"> | www.payzen.eu</a><br data-mce= 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3 3

How to manage to update the Quota limits parameters (cpu, memory and disk)
by Manuel Luis Aznar 17 Feb '17

17 Feb '17

Hello there, I want to update the quota limit parameters for vcpu, memory and disk, but I dont find the way. I manage to get the actual values but I am unable to manage how to update this values. I am doing the following (I ommit the imports and conection stuff): system_service = connection.system_service() data_centers_service = system_service.data_centers_service() data_center = data_centers_service.list(search='name=Prueba2')[0] data_center_service = data_centers_service.data_center_service(id= data_center.id) quotas_service = data_center_service.quotas_service() quota = quotas_service.list()[0] quota_service = quotas_service.quota_service(id=quota.id) quota_cluster_limits_service = quota_service.quota_cluster_limits_service() quotaclusterlimit = quota_cluster_limits_service.list()[0] quota_storage_limits_service = quota_service.quota_storage_limits_service() quotastoragelimit = quota_storage_limits_service.list()[0] if after that I print the following: quotaclusterlimit.memory_limit quotaclusterlimit.vcpu_limit quotastoragelimit.limit i see the actual values of the limits, but, I m not able to update that values (I have been testing on how to do it). It seems that the only method that let you update anything on a quota is using: quota_service.add(quota=...) I start creating a new quota object with these new limits by doing the following: new_quotastoragelimit = ovirtsdk4.types.QuotaStorageLimit(limit=100) new_quotaclusterlimit = ovirtsdk4.types.QuotaClusterLimit(memory_limit=100,vcpu_limit=10) new_quota = ovirtsdk4.types.Quota(quota_cluster_limits=new_quotaclusterlimit, quota_storage_limits=new_quotastoragelimit) quota_service.update(quota=new_quota) I have directly tried to edit the printed values directly and then doing the update but I got nothing (got event in the engine but the limit did not change) quotaclusterlimit.memory_limit =100 quotaclusterlimit.vcpu_limit = 10 quotastoragelimit.limit = 100 quota_service.update(quota=quota) # updating quota with itself I suppose that there would be a way on how to this, so if you can help, i will really appreciate you. Thanks for all in advance to all Manuel

2 1

Re: [ovirt-users] VMs are not running/booting on one host
by Karli Sjöberg 17 Feb '17

17 Feb '17

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DQo8L2JvZHk+DQo8L2h0bWw+DQo= --_000_bd8476d87fd64bb2a520726538660fdcexch24sluse_--

2 2

HA and poweroff of VM
by Gianluca Cecchi 17 Feb '17

17 Feb '17

Hello, after setting a VM as HA I run poweroff from inside the VM. Is it supposed to be automatically restarted in this scenario with oVirt 4.1? In engine I see: VM c7service is down. Exit message: User shut down from within the guest Apparently no restart How to test eventually HA functionality? Tanks, Gianluca

2 1

What is the libcacard-ev.x86_64 ??
by Arman Khalatyan 17 Feb '17

17 Feb '17

I have a host which was updated since 3.6.... libcacard is disappeared from ovirt4.1 but it has a many dependencies which stops to remove it: [root@clei36 ~]# yum list installed | grep ovirt| grep 4.0 libcacard-ev.x86_64 10:2.3.0-31.el7.16.1 @ovirt-4.0 yum update libcacard-ev Loaded plugins: fastestmirror Loading mirror speeds from cached hostfile * base: ftp.fau.de * epel: ftp.fau.de * extras: ftp.fau.de * ovirt-4.1: ftp.nluug.nl * ovirt-4.1-epel: ftp.fau.de * updates: mirror.eu.oneandone.net No packages marked for update yum remove libcacard-ev.x86_64 Loaded plugins: fastestmirror Resolving Dependencies --> Running transaction check ---> Package libcacard-ev.x86_64 10:2.3.0-31.el7.16.1 will be erased --> Processing Dependency: libcacard.so.0()(64bit) for package: 10:qemu-kvm-ev-2.6.0-28.el7_3.3.1.x86_64 --> Running transaction check ---> Package qemu-kvm-ev.x86_64 10:2.6.0-28.el7_3.3.1 will be erased --> Processing Dependency: qemu-kvm >= 1.5.3-92.el7 for package: 1:virt-v2v-1.32.7-3.el7.centos.2.x86_64 --> Processing Dependency: qemu-kvm for package: libvirt-daemon-kvm-2.0.0-10.el7_3.4.x86_64 --> Processing Dependency: qemu-kvm-rhev >= 10:2.6.0-2 for package: vdsm-4.19.4-1.el7.centos.x86_64 --> Running transaction check ---> Package libvirt-daemon-kvm.x86_64 0:2.0.0-10.el7_3.4 will be erased --> Processing Dependency: libvirt-daemon-kvm >= 1.2.8-3 for package: 1:libguestfs-1.32.7-3.el7.centos.2.x86_64 ---> Package vdsm.x86_64 0:4.19.4-1.el7.centos will be erased --> Processing Dependency: vdsm = 4.19.4-1.el7.centos for package: vdsm-hook-vmfex-dev-4.19.4-1.el7.centos.noarch ---> Package virt-v2v.x86_64 1:1.32.7-3.el7.centos.2 will be erased --> Processing Dependency: virt-v2v for package: safelease-1.0-7.el7.x86_64 --> Running transaction check ---> Package libguestfs.x86_64 1:1.32.7-3.el7.centos.2 will be erased --> Processing Dependency: libguestfs = 1:1.32.7-3.el7.centos.2 for package: 1:libguestfs-tools-c-1.32.7-3.el7.centos.2.x86_64 --> Processing Dependency: libguestfs >= 1:1.28.1 for package: libguestfs-winsupport-7.2-1.el7.x86_64 --> Processing Dependency: libguestfs.so.0()(64bit) for package: 1:libguestfs-tools-c-1.32.7-3.el7.centos.2.x86_64 ---> Package safelease.x86_64 0:1.0-7.el7 will be erased ---> Package vdsm-hook-vmfex-dev.noarch 0:4.19.4-1.el7.centos will be erased --> Running transaction check ---> Package libguestfs-tools-c.x86_64 1:1.32.7-3.el7.centos.2 will be erased ---> Package libguestfs-winsupport.x86_64 0:7.2-1.el7 will be erased --> Finished Dependency Resolution Dependencies Resolved ============================================================================================================================================================================================================================== Package Arch Version Repository Size ============================================================================================================================================================================================================================== Removing: libcacard-ev x86_64 10:2.3.0-31.el7.16.1 @ovirt-4.0 47 k Removing for dependencies: libguestfs x86_64 1:1.32.7-3.el7.centos.2 @updates 3.8 M libguestfs-tools-c x86_64 1:1.32.7-3.el7.centos.2 @updates 14 M libguestfs-winsupport x86_64 7.2-1.el7 @base 2.2 M libvirt-daemon-kvm x86_64 2.0.0-10.el7_3.4 @updates 0.0 qemu-kvm-ev x86_64 10:2.6.0-28.el7_3.3.1 @ovirt-4.1 9.6 M safelease x86_64 1.0-7.el7 @centos-ovirt41-candidate 43 k vdsm x86_64 4.19.4-1.el7.centos @ovirt-4.1 2.5 M vdsm-hook-vmfex-dev noarch 4.19.4-1.el7.centos @ovirt-4.1 21 k virt-v2v x86_64 1:1.32.7-3.el7.centos.2 @updates 16 M Transaction Summary ============================================================================================================================================================================================================================== Remove 1 Package (+9 Dependent packages) Installed size: 49 M Is this ok [y/N]: n

4 10

Re: [ovirt-users] Importing existing (dirty) storage domains
by Doug Ingham 16 Feb '17

16 Feb '17

Some interesting output from the vdsm log... 2017-02-09 15:16:24,051 INFO (jsonrpc/1) [storage.StorageDomain] Resource namespace 01_img_60455567-ad30-42e3-a9df-62fe86c7fd25 already registered (sd:731) 2017-02-09 15:16:24,051 INFO (jsonrpc/1) [storage.StorageDomain] Resource namespace 02_vol_60455567-ad30-42e3-a9df-62fe86c7fd25 already registered (sd:740) 2017-02-09 15:16:24,052 INFO (jsonrpc/1) [storage.SANLock] Acquiring Lease(name='SDM', path=u'/rhev/data-center/mnt/glusterSD/localhost:data2/60455567-ad30-42e3-a9df-6 2fe86c7fd25/dom_md/leases', offset=1048576) for host id 1 (clusterlock:343) 2017-02-09 15:16:24,057 INFO (jsonrpc/1) [storage.SANLock] Releasing host id for domain 60455567-ad30-42e3-a9df-62fe86c7fd25 (id: 1) (clusterlock:305) 2017-02-09 15:16:25,149 INFO (jsonrpc/3) [jsonrpc.JsonRpcServer] RPC call GlusterHost.list succeeded in 0.17 seconds (__init__:515) 2017-02-09 15:16:25,264 INFO (Reactor thread) [ProtocolDetector.AcceptorImpl] Accepted connection from ::ffff: 127.0.0.1:55060 (protocoldetector:72) 2017-02-09 15:16:25,270 INFO (Reactor thread) [ProtocolDetector.Detector] Detected protocol stomp from ::ffff:127.0.0.1:55060 (protocoldetector:127) 2017-02-09 15:16:25,271 INFO (Reactor thread) [Broker.StompAdapter] Processing CONNECT request (stompreactor:102) 2017-02-09 15:16:25,271 INFO (JsonRpc (StompReactor)) [Broker.StompAdapter] Subscribe command received (stompreactor:129) 2017-02-09 15:16:25,416 INFO (jsonrpc/5) [jsonrpc.JsonRpcServer] RPC call Host.getHardwareInfo succeeded in 0.01 seconds (__init__:515) 2017-02-09 15:16:25,419 INFO (jsonrpc/6) [dispatcher] Run and protect: repoStats(options=None) (logUtils:49) 2017-02-09 15:16:25,419 INFO (jsonrpc/6) [dispatcher] Run and protect: repoStats, Return response: {u'e8d04da7-ad3d-4227-a45d-b5a29b2f43e5': {'code': 0, 'actual': True , 'version': 4, 'acquired': True, 'delay': '0.000854128', 'lastCheck': '5.1', 'valid': True}, u'a77b8821-ff19-4d17-a3ce-a6c3a69436d5': {'code': 0, 'actual': True, 'vers ion': 4, 'acquired': True, 'delay': '0.000966556', 'lastCheck': '2.6', 'valid': True}} (logUtils:52) 2017-02-09 15:16:25,447 INFO (jsonrpc/6) [jsonrpc.JsonRpcServer] RPC call Host.getStats succeeded in 0.03 seconds (__init__:515) 2017-02-09 15:16:25,450 ERROR (JsonRpc (StompReactor)) [vds.dispatcher] SSL error receiving from <yajsonrpc.betterAsyncore.Dispatcher connected ('::ffff:127.0.0.1', 55060, 0, 0) at 0x7f69c0043cf8>: unexpected eof (betterAsyncore:113) 2017-02-09 15:16:25,812 INFO (jsonrpc/7) [jsonrpc.JsonRpcServer] RPC call GlusterVolume.list succeeded in 0.10 seconds (__init__:515) 2017-02-09 15:16:25,940 INFO (Reactor thread) [ProtocolDetector.AcceptorImpl] Accepted connection from ::ffff: 127.0.0.1:55062 (protocoldetector:72) 2017-02-09 15:16:25,946 INFO (Reactor thread) [ProtocolDetector.Detector] Detected protocol stomp from ::ffff:127.0.0.1:55062 (protocoldetector:127) 2017-02-09 15:16:25,947 INFO (Reactor thread) [Broker.StompAdapter] Processing CONNECT request (stompreactor:102) 2017-02-09 15:16:25,947 INFO (JsonRpc (StompReactor)) [Broker.StompAdapter] Subscribe command received (stompreactor:129) 2017-02-09 15:16:26,058 ERROR (jsonrpc/1) [storage.TaskManager.Task] (Task='02cad901-5fe8-4f2d-895b-14184f67feab') Unexpected error (task:870) Traceback (most recent call last): File "/usr/share/vdsm/storage/task.py", line 877, in _run return fn(*args, **kargs) File "/usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/vdsm/logUtils.py", line 50, in wrapper res = f(*args, **kwargs) File "/usr/share/vdsm/storage/hsm.py", line 812, in forcedDetachStorageDomain self._deatchStorageDomainFromOldPools(sdUUID) File "/usr/share/vdsm/storage/hsm.py", line 790, in _deatchStorageDomainFromOldPools dom.acquireClusterLock(host_id) File "/usr/share/vdsm/storage/sd.py", line 810, in acquireClusterLock self._manifest.acquireDomainLock(hostID) File "/usr/share/vdsm/storage/sd.py", line 499, in acquireDomainLock self._domainLock.acquire(hostID, self.getDomainLease()) File "/usr/lib/python2.7/site-packages/vdsm/storage/clusterlock.py", line 362, in acquire "Cannot acquire %s" % (lease,), str(e)) AcquireLockFailure: Cannot obtain lock: u"id=60455567-ad30-42e3-a9df-62fe86c7fd25, rc=5, out=Cannot acquire Lease(name='SDM', path=u'/rhev/data-center/mnt/glusterSD/localhost:data2/60455567-ad30-42e3-a9df-62fe86c7fd25/dom_md/leases', offset=1048576), err=(5, 'Sanlock resource not acquired', 'Input/output error')" 2017-02-09 15:16:26,058 INFO (jsonrpc/1) [storage.TaskManager.Task] (Task='02cad901-5fe8-4f2d-895b-14184f67feab') aborting: Task is aborted: 'Cannot obtain lock' - code 651 (task:1175) 2017-02-09 15:16:26,059 ERROR (jsonrpc/1) [storage.Dispatcher] {'status': {'message': 'Cannot obtain lock: u"id=60455567-ad30-42e3-a9df-62fe86c7fd25, rc=5, out=Cannot acquire Lease(name=\'SDM\', path=u\'/rhev/data-center/mnt/glusterSD/localhost:data2/60455567-ad30-42e3-a9df-62fe86c7fd25/dom_md/leases\', offset=1048576), err=(5, \'Sanlock resource not acquired\', \'Input/output error\')"', 'code': 651}} (dispatcher:77) 2017-02-09 15:16:26,059 INFO (jsonrpc/1) [jsonrpc.JsonRpcServer] RPC call StorageDomain.detach failed (error 651) in 23.04 seconds (__init__:515) -- Doug

3 7

questions on OVN
by Gianluca Cecchi 16 Feb '17

16 Feb '17

Hello, I'm successfully testing and using OVN on a single host environment with self hosted engine and 4.1 I'm using ip of ovirtmgmt for the host local ip used for OVN tunneling, even if actually with a single host it is not so important... ovirtmgmt bridge is on top ot lacp based bonding Now I would like to apply it on another environment composed by 3 hosts. Here ovirtmgmt bridge is on top of an active-backup bonding. Are there any cons to put the local ip used for tunneling on ovirtmgmt ip? Any problems/impacts on engine access/functionality using this ip for the tunnel? Is in genera OVN considered stable/fully usable in 4.1? Thanks in advance, Gianluca

3 8